how do you compose?

[edoguy]

I was wondering how you musicians compose a music.
How do you start?

[gary]

Start by writing simple melodic lines that you like. Then harmonise them. You can pick around with harmonies with a guitar or at the piano but I would recommend learning something about chords and their function and construction.

Learn about different song forms, then theme and variations. Learn what development is and how to do it. Write your songs for small instrumental combinations and have them played (very important). Get yourself a good orchestration book. Study scores and the recordings. Learn 17th C. counterpoint. Study theory and get yourself a good teacher.

[edoguy]

what is your favorite song you composed?

[gary]

I still think most fondly on a little ditty I wrote for kids in a barrio school Suzuki string program that was played in a gym by over a hundred little elementary school children, practically all of whom were Mexican immigrants. It was one of the most satisfying things I believe I've ever done.

[martysax]

When I was in my freshman year at Brandeis, I was recruited by some campus musicians to form a "New Wave" band. We had a female lead singer, guitar, bass, drums, Fender Rhodes, and me.

For that band, I wrote a little love ballad called "I beat her with a rake!" that still rings loud this day.

She paid for her mistake
when I beat her with a rake,
beat her with a rake,
beat her with a rake.

For me, it always starts with lyrics. I then develop a few hooks around the syllables of the main works. String them together with some stuff and you've got a good start.

My punk-rockabilly band, the Cyclones, would write at least one original per month and work it out on stage. Sometimes it's like throwing a bunch of notes on the floor, picking up a few pieces, and developing a motive.

[Grumps]

That brings it all back Marty. When I was in law school in the mid-80's I had an "alternative" band... although I don't think that term was applied back then. We'd do mostly all originals, and I'd do my best song writing in the shower; singing some profane melody. Then figure it out on the keyboard.

[Pete Thomas]

I'm a strong believer in logical development of small phrases. It's just like improvising, but you have more time to get it right. Logical development doesn't meean you have to follow rules, it should be a balance of development that the listener kind of expects and development that is a bit of a surprise.

Too much obvious development and the listener gets bored

Too many surprises and the piececloses direction.

A lot more (and some examples) at:

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/composition-motif.html

[odsum25]

Gary is right on about learning theory. Find a good harmony book, a good counterpoint book, and learn it all. Otherwise you're just throwing notes around. It can sound nice, but there is never goin gto be much musical depth there. I like the Piston "Harmony" or Aldwell/Schacter "Harmony and Voice Leading" (if you're into the Schenker thing) harmony books. For counterpoint start with Fux. It's archaic, but will get you the basics and then some. And I can't emphasize enough studying scores you enjoy and that are generally considered great music. A must is to study the Bach chorales inside and out. Play with the voice leading yourself and see what you can do. If you move onto orchestration, Rimsky-Korsakov and Forsyth are the first step.

[Greelmo]

Compositional technique is always a controversial subject among musicians. Honestly, write what you like. If you want to be taken seriously, however, make sure you are WELL versed in the history of music, eastern and western theory, orchestration, etc. If you are educated, you can write concert music, film music, rap beats, etc. Go hit up google and find an interview with Danny Elfman (the most sucessful film score composer of the past coupld decades, arguably of course). Notice how intelligently he can speak of his style in the context of music history. That's the true trick. He knows what's out there, so he can take the next step and write a successful score.

[breitenfeld]

First look for the material:
This can be a melodic or rhythmic tiny idea, a sequence of chords, texture, timbre, etc.

Then think and listen to ways of developing/extending this material. Most techniques can be found in books or in the web or a teacher.

It is important that the music has an emotional graph. BASICALLY, music has a forward or backward motion as well variations on this too. Climaxes are nice.

The most important thing is that you hear what you want to do, of course trying it out on an instrument before to clarify before and after hearing it in your head is important too.

John Cage said: "Most composers hear music in their heads and then write it down, I write music down to be able to hear it."

Pretty advanced, huh? But that's John Cage (Another of my heroes)

CHEERS!

[ElThommo]

Only just started writing my own stuff, but I tend to sit down with my sax and play until something that I like and develop a tune off of that. Occasionally I'll get some made up tune in my head and try and put it to paper at a later date.

[Robenco15]

I've been blessed to just have graduated from a high school that has a great music department.

I'll test out of a year and a half worths of theory classes at college now. I'm in the process of writing a legit Sonata Allegro (1st movement of a symphony) for full orchestra. Fun stuff. I love writing. Playing. Analyzing scores (completely analyzed Beethoven's 1st symphony 1st movement, now onto the 2nd), conducting, and of course listening. I try to constantly be doing something with music at every second of my day. Especially during the summer.

Since it doesn't sound like you have a basis really of theory I would look into some books but try to somehow take a class or find a teacher or something.

Whenever you go to write melody (on piano, sax, or anything), which I suggest you do, always try to keep a progression in mind. Look at your notes, your cadence points, and see what's the dominant maybe and that kind of thing. Always try to write with a progression in mind. If you don't, you'll write something, and then when it comes time to add legit harmonies and stuff that serious composers add, you'll have to change your melody to reflect proper harmonic "rules", if you will.

I've written string quartet stuff, I've put music to text (poems in both cases), and like i said i'm in the middle of a Sonata Allegro.

If you are starting, I would get a notation software, open a blank piano score and just write stuff with that. No reason to start out with a full orchestral score or anything of that sort.


p.s. I learned using the Robert Ottman theory books. I find it works better than anything else. Instead of learning everything NOT to do, he breaks EVERYTHING into rules and then you just folllow rules based on what is going on in the song. Example - (This is four part choral writing which can be translated into anything) If the basses are a 4th or a 5th apart, rule 2a says, Keep a common tone and move the other voices by step to the nearest chord tone (which would be in similar motion as well). By using his rules you avoid pararell fifths and octaves which are a HUGE no no in classical music theory. You also avoid cross voices, cross relations, and augmented seconds and 4ths. There are always exceptions once you get into the more advanced theory methods but he has rules for those as well.

I find they work great. I just got a 5 on the AP Music Theory exam. Saving thousands of dollars in college now too.

[jazzbo mcgee]

start with silence... then take away everything you don't like.

jazzbo :treble: :D

[raf:)]

take a music thoery class for the basis if your still in high school i think they should have one i took one in my high school and never regreted it helps teach u functions and all the good stuff

[silvin]

I was wondering how you musicians compose a music.?

With a cup of tea. never coffee.

[Enviroguy]

1. Computer ($1200)
2. NoteWorthy Music Program ($29)
3. Soprano Sax (to work out melody) ($1000)
4. Strange nervous fever (free)
5. Watching the mouths of 250 Baptists all drop in unison as you play a "re-imagined" version of their favorite hymn (priceless) ;)

[littlemanbighorn]

With a cup of tea. never coffee.

No, quite the opposite. Or with some nice Scotch(or rotgut, depending on the style of music.)

[bluesaxgirl]

In a concert band, I find it easy just to see what sounds good together on the piano, assign it to instruments, add effects, and then change it to the appropriate key. I guess it could work for a jazz band also.

[Sivarix]

how do you compose?
I was wondering how you musicians compose a music.
How do you start?

Start by writing simple melodic lines that you like. Then harmonise them. You can pick around with harmonies with a guitar or at the piano but I would recommend learning something about chords and their function and construction.

Learn about different song forms, then theme and variations. Learn what development is and how to do it. Write your songs for small instrumental combinations and have them played (very important). Get yourself a good orchestration book. Study scores and the recordings. Learn 17th C. counterpoint. Study theory and get yourself a good teacher.[/QUOTE]

Can you not explain how you compose, instead of telling us how to compose?8-)

[silvin]

I guess Gary was telling about his own practice, wasn't he? Wasn't you Gary? :dontknow:

[stefank]

With an idea, with imagination.

Then you need to expand on it, develop it, which is where most of the stuff people have mentioned above starts to become useful.

Think of a would be novelist who can spell every word in the dictionary, and knows every rule of grammar ever described, but is totally devoid of imagination. Is he/she likely to write an interesting book? - unlikely.

[Robenco15]

how do you compose?
I was wondering how you musicians compose a music.
How do you start?

Start by writing simple melodic lines that you like. Then harmonise them. You can pick around with harmonies with a guitar or at the piano but I would recommend learning something about chords and their function and construction.

Learn about different song forms, then theme and variations. Learn what development is and how to do it. Write your songs for small instrumental combinations and have them played (very important). Get yourself a good orchestration book. Study scores and the recordings. Learn 17th C. counterpoint. Study theory and get yourself a good teacher.

Can you not explain how you compose, instead of telling us how to compose?8-)[/QUOTE]



I agree with Gary. That's what I did/do and it's working.

[CiaranAudio]

I began composing music in score format as this is what I was directly involved in. I would write my scores into Finale manually (I didnt play any keyboards then). But as I moved away from symphonic/orchestral situations (leaving school to play in blues/punk/psychobilly bands) and got into electronics, so to did my composition style. Now scoring is the LAST thing do, and only if someone I'm working with needs it (ie, string quartet, guest keys player, etc).

I compose almost exclusively on Propellorhead's REASON 3.0, and a good part of my style now comes from the creation of the sounds themselves. It has also turned me into a capable keyboard player, good enough to go rock out some Beatles tunes at the local Ice Cream shop, and it was a totally accidental by-product of changing my composition process.

Sometimes tweaking the basic tone and timbre of a new sound can inspire leads, hooks, riffs, chord progressions, or grooves that become infectious.

Next I build my drum kit. Which is to say I find sounds I like and process them adequately so they dont annoy me while I write. This is everything from multi-layering drum samples into a sampler and banging it out on a controller to manipulating pre-recorded loops via the Dr. Rex.

Because I'm lucky enough to be producing these "demos" just so the musicians in my band can hear them to learn I dont worry about totally fleshing out or overly polishing the production. Reason is a great sketch pad, and I am now fast enough with it that my creative process is totally unhindered by my tools. The only thing it doesnt do stand-alone is tempo changes, but thats what interfacing it with Cubase or ProTools is for. Reason 4 will have taken care of that anyway.

Oh, one last thing. Keep a couple of SM57s around on stands so that while working with Reason in Cubase or ProTools you can fire up and audio track and record my sax, vocals, or anything else I might need.

[ShedShark]

Before I found Sibelius it was 'head to paper'. The pieces come to me in many different ways. Sometimes complete, other times I'm walking down the street trying to figure out who's playing the music, etc.

Having an instrument in my hands always messed me up; I was bound by what I could play so instead I made my chops follow my imagination. Here's a piece that I haven't finished. There are transitional problems, places where the variations are verbatim but wouldn't be if I took the time to fix them, etc. I've pretty much abandoned it because I got the general idea on paper and that was cool with me.

http://100days.net/crawl1_web/crawl1_web.html

[estagro]

I usually improvise on the piano for a while, doesn't matter what just fooling around and then I stumble on a good melody line. a couple of bars. After that I settle on it and start working out the rest of the melody. After that, the harmony and when I run our of ideas just take a break and come to it later on. If I want it for a band, i just arrange it later, it is easier for me to write on the piano. However i always think about the instruments in the band when I am writing on the piano, trying to listen in my head what I want them to do.

[Al Stevens]

Sometimes it just happens. I sit at the piano and play themes based on chord changes. Sometimes I just let my hands wander around the keyboard. I usually record these meanderings. Mostly I discard the recordings without even listening to them. But if something goes by that pleases me, I make a note of it, listen to the recording later, transcribe the theme into notation.

Other times a song is based on an idea. I want to write a song about... In these cases I usually write the lyrics first and let the pulse and feel of the poem influence the melodic meter. Often the melodic development causes me to change the lyrics to fit the meter of a new melody.

[Mal 2]

I'd describe my compositional method as "accretion". I start with something that catches my interest -- maybe a melody lick, a rhythmic figure, a bass line, or even a set of chord changes -- and add elements to it. I work to expand it both vertically (other things going on at the same time) and horizontally (make it longer). I move pieces around and stick them together in various ways, and sometimes don't use them at all (or save them for some other day).

Once I think I've got between half and two-thirds of a complete song, I start recording and listening back to it. This usually gives me the spark to do the other half or one-third. Sometimes I will drop elements after they are recorded because I've developed them in such a way that they are no longer necessary, like scaffolding on a building. That may even include the original "hook" that started the whole process.

Sometimes the "hook" isn't even a musical idea per se, just a concept. One of my favorite compositions started from the idea "let's make a techno dance tune that's impossible to dance to!"

http://mal-2.com/m/Mal-2_-_The_Minerva_Project-09-Trancin%27_Dental.mp3

Another one developed from the concept of "short term memory". That is, I composed it with deliberate blinders on, allowing myself to reference things no more than eight seconds prior. If it wasn't in that window, it didn't exist. Not surprisingly, it turned out rather incoherent and atonal, but that was pretty much the intention going in.

Another time I was ticked off at the inhabitants of a chat room and decided to satirize them in song. I started out with the phrases and people that angered me the most, but ran out of steam and had to toss in the people and phrases I liked, too. So it ended up coming off not nearly as "f*** you" as intended, and it ended up being very popular with the very people I set out to offend.

Sometimes I get song seeds from dreams. Sometimes I even get entire songs from dreams.

Now if I must write a tune for a specific purpose, such as "we need two 40-second original spots by next week", I will usually lift parts of chord changes from standards (not a whole song, but 8 bar segments or so), put them in another style and key, and throw a melody over them. It's cheating, but it works in a pinch.

[paulman]

Let write only what is in your feeling!
Paolo Mannelli

[Woody Reed]

Before giving advise, it would probably be best to know what style of music the OP is interested in. The old phrase of "there are many ways to skin a cat" applies here for sure. Some styles are more technical and rules based, other styles are all emotionally based. Whatever the style is that your going for, get really fast at capturing your ideas. Be it on the cpu, singing into a tape recorder, leaving yourself a voice mail, writing it down, whatever. Just find a quick way to get the inspiration preserved quickly no matter where or when it hits. 3am, 7am in the shower, 7pm at dinner, what ever. You've may already have had ideas in your head and just didn't know how to get them preserved. That is the key. Otherwise, all technical with no inspiration is, well................. uninspiring. :)

[Al Stevens]

By definition, a "song" has lyrics since it is to be "sung." Otherwise it's, what, a tune, I guess.

Everyone does it their own way, and there is no one right way to do it.

I start with the premise of the story the song will tell. Then I write lyrics away from any instrument. Then I write the melody at the piano, often changing the lyrics to fit a better melody.

One song I wrote, called "Bedroom Eyes are Cryin'," has the premise of a guy whose divorce cost him his house. The lyrics are all plays on words having to do with parts of the house and getting screwed out of your house. It begins, "I gave you a picket fence, but all I got was the gate." My favorite line in the lyric is, "My kitchen pass was written by your lawyer."

In this process, as lyrics evolve, a matching melody suggests itself but it usually needs some touchup.

My favorite of the songs I've written is called "A Place Called Nowhere." It's about a loser.

http://www.alstevens.com/alstevens/tunes/mp3s/nowhere.mp3

[Al Stevens]

...who can spell every word in the dictionary, and knows every rule of grammar ever described, but is totally devoid of imagination. Is he/she likely to write an interesting book? - unlikely.
You read one of my books?

[Razzy]

Sivarix, we won't tell you how to compose if you promise not to tell anybody how to properly use the "quote" function on this forum. ;)

I have to be in a very strange state of mind to compose. Either pushed to a breaking point, in dire straits of some sort, desperate, in love, despairing, poor, starving, or some combination of the above.

Ok, so we've got that state of mind. Then I have to have some thought running through my mind over and over and over, like one of those nagging thoughts that just keeps repeating itself. It could be an annoying sentence somebody said, a worry that you forgot something, a fear of what might happen that night in a certain situation, or even a melodic fragment. Doesn't necessarily need to start that way though, whatever my thought is, it can be translated into a melody, piece of harmony, or a rhythmic idea somehow.

I have had one for a few weeks, but it hasn't gotten annoying enough yet to develop into anything, and it hasn't translated itself into a context yet. I usually let this happen in my head before I write anything down. It could happen in the middle of the night though... it's important to keep some kind of paper and pen around at all times, even if you have to draw a music staff and go from there.

Once that all falls into place and that moment hits where I just HAVE to put the idea down, the rest kind of takes its own life. I usually start with a melody that has basically written itself already, put it down in the context of a starting chord where it sounds right, and find the other chords from there... feel changes, harmonic shifts, arranging the rhythmic backing, all have to make sense in context, and come from some basic idea, or else it might sound contrived. Being simple and economical are the name of the business for me, because my compositions tend to be difficult enough to play, without me running around making it even more difficult.

To hear an example of this listen to "When We Were Kings" on the myspace page in my sig. It also happens to be my favorite baby to date. There is one section where the rhythm of the duet part over top of the accompaniment is just unnecessarily difficult; however it's what I was hearing so it stayed. It is a song because there are lyrics which came later, after I could hear them, but it was never sung, and this is an instrumental version. The lyric version is just an ideal that may or may not come to pass. Many of my compositions have lyrics that have never been heard.

Hope this helps! Of course Gary's suggestions are of high merit and I totally agree with them. I guess I am trying to give you the other side of it.

[Al Stevens]

Damn, I just scrolled back and saw not only how old this thread is but that I'd already responded to it last year. Fortunately, I didn't contradict myself.

[Razzy]

Wow, you're right. Looking at the datestamps, this thread has had several revivals by many individuals over the years. Yet it doesn't involve Phil Barone. How interesting.

[warp x]

Despite having lots of horns, (bass)guitars, samplers etc etc I still write everything in my head. I write everything down in my own musical shorthand, and when it's ready I enter all the notes is Sibelius. I never use a piano. I use those large blocks of music paper, B4 format/18 staves. (which is not always enough)

[ShedShark]

Despite having lots of horns, (bass)guitars, samplers etc etc I still write everything in my head. I write everything down in my own musical shorthand, and when it's ready I enter all the notes is Sibelius. I never use a piano. I use those large blocks of music paper, B4 format/18 staves. (which is not always enough)


Man, listened to your music and I have to say this in "american"...


"dude, your sh*t is ill..."

[toughtenor]

get inspired, by anything ( variying from another musician's fragment or a car honkin' it's horn) then get down to actually putting the notes on paper, let it happen, don't do too much intervention, it will more or less write itself if you let it...

[warp x]

Man, listened to your music and I have to say this in "american"...


"dude, your sh*t is ill..."


Uh, does that mean you like it? (I never hears the expression)

[Shooshie]

You compose by doing it. Composing, that is. The more of it you do, the more you learn. The more you learn, the better you get. The better you get, the more excited you get about doing it. Composing, that is. At some point you've got to make some decisions about where to send your stuff, but only after it's good enough that other people are telling you things like "man, where can I buy that?"


Get people to play your stuff. That means, the simpler you start, the easier it is to get someone to play it. Much easier to get someone to play sax duets than your first symphony on your first try. Also... don't write a symphony. When a certain voice inside you says "this HAS GOT to be a Symphony," then you can write one. But not until then. You'll know. Until then, you won't know.

Making sense? It's a lot like playing sax. At first you're not very good. Then you learn something. Etc., etc., etc. The trick always comes back to one thing: doing it. Composing, that is. Don't let anyone else tell you how you ought to be composing. They can SUGGEST ideas, but in the end, you're the guy doing it, not them. That includes teachers. My best composition teacher, Merrill Ellis, taught me that. He also taught me to hold a line in my head until I could remember the entire line and come back to it, verbatim. Then write it down. Until that point, you're not composing. You're kind of letting the notes lead you around. When you know what you want to hear, and you can hear it clearly in your head over and over, then you've got a composition. That's what you write down.

"Composing" doesn't mean "writing it down." You can compose something and never write it down, never play it, never let anyone else hear it. You composed it, and it's yours. But... if you want someone else to hear it, then you either play it, record it, teach it to someone else, or write it down. All those acts are acts of communication. So, don't confuse communication with composition. Composition is the part that goes on in your head and in scratch books. You know, places where you jot down ideas. Composition is the part that takes place when you're the only one on earth who knows that piece. Then you communicate it with others by writing it down.

I've known a lot of people who thought that writing it down was the composing part of the game. They'd write some notes, then come back to it later and write some more notes. They'd try out different notes on the piano to see what went with the ones they had written... man, that's like trying on clothes. That's not composing. Remember; composing takes place in your head. Communicating that music to someone else can take many forms, but it starts with a CLEAR IDEA of what you want to communicate.

Now... remember the first advice I told you? Don't let anyone else tell you how to do it? Ok... good. Now that we're clear, go out and do it.

...yes, composing, that is....

Shooshie

[Mick Stuppguy]

It' all about the hook, man. Any song with any legs at all has one.

Is you don't know what a hook is, I'd describe it as a signature phrase (usually a "resolution,") either melodic, lyrical (words), structural (chord progression) or preferably, a combination of a couple of these.

Then you set it up a few times so that the listener can hear it coming, and looks forward to it: thus, they're "hooked."

Hooks actually work on two levels: "Anticipation" (creating tension) and "identification" (you're familiar with the theme and are now in the club - - or better, get the line stuck in your head.) Think about songs you love and you'll find a hook in every one.

Some examples that I've created:

The word "Tailspin" in a little I-IV blues-funk ditty I wrote describing some sticky situations. thus, "Looks like I'm headed for another . . . " and in the second verse (about my friend) "I guess he's headed for a REAL . . . . ", etc.

I did a reggae thing about people who fall through the cracks. In the chorus, the back-up singers repeat 4 times, in a kind of chanty way: "Society says" and I finish the phrase with something that pertains to that verse, such as "there's no money.... there's no time . . . . it's your own fault . .. . stop your crime."

I even did a chord progression hook once on a little jazz piece where just as you think it's going to resolve back to the root, I instead snuck in a measure with a minor-IV chord, that then resolved. It was a quirky twist, buy hey, it worked with the rest of the tune and people dug it.

That's the theory that I buy into, anyway. So to compose I noodle around until I find my hook, then build around it. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. You'll never know until you roll it out. My band came up with the hook "Slow Butt Shirley", but we all had different spins on it, most way over the top, if you know what I mean - - still haven't been able to come up with a final version to work in.

Enjoy . . .

[Shooshie]

The hook is right. Classical forms tend to have such hooks as well. We call them "themes" or "motifs." They're basically the hook. And you hear that hook throughout the song, mangled and beaten and rescued and repeated again for good measure... then it's all done. In pop music, The hook can be as simple as a cello line coming in after the first few words, and giving that first 5 seconds its identity. David Foster is notorious about that kind of a hook.

[hakukani]

Ah, so classical music is 'multi-hooked'.

David Foster is famous for making everything he touches sound like David Foster, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

[soybean]

I was wondering how you musicians compose music.
How do you start?check this out: http://www.equalinterval.com/