Reed question(s)

[VickyJ]

Can anybody tell me whether it's ok to put reeds back into the holder they came in - or would this be classed as sacrilege. If I admit to doing this will I be drummed out of SOTW in sackcloth and ashes? In my defence, none of my reeds appear to have come to any harm.

In any event, what I'm talking about are the plastic things that Rico Royal reeds come in. To me they look made for the job - and I just bought a box of Hemkes (owned by Rico - the holders are identical to the R/Royal ones) and on the back of the box it says "Featuring the new Revolution Reed Holder". In what way are the special reed guards better? I do own a couple of these, but I just wondered why it was necessary to pay out for something which appears to come free with the reed - or am I being naive?

This brings me on to my second question: Rico, Hemke and La Voz are all owned by the same company, yet all over SOTW I see people raving about (say) La Voz and slagging off (say) Rico. Is there actually any difference between these brands if they are all owned by the same company? Personally I couldn't tell the difference between the Rico Royals and the new Hemkes I've just bought (soundwise). Old hands will probably point at me and say that this is because I am a novice. This is probably true but, having said that, I can tell the difference between those (those being the only cane reeds I've used) and a Bari* or Legere (which I like).

[Canadiain]

I do it all the time, but then I admit to using a chinese sax too!. Most people here dont bite anyway:)

The new rico reed holders do a better job of keeping the tip flat while the reed dries I think, thus avoiding some warpage issues, but as the tip is flexible again once its wetted Im not sure I could tell a lot of difference. Just dont push then in too far or you risk damaging the tip on the little fins that stick down to put enough pressure on the reed to hold it in place. I do like the new style better than the old plastic one or the Vandoren plastic folder which Im always worried I will crunch the reed on if Im not carefull when putting it back in.

This drying/warpage thing is not really an issue with artificial reeds, especialy the solid "nonfibery" legiere types. Just cos of the crappy vandoren cases I also have one of those vito type rubber band reed holders which works fine. Never done any damage with that.

Yes there are differences in the quality of the cane and the reed cuts used.

As an analogy Ford Motor Company owns Ford, Volvo, Jaguar and Aston Martin. A Ford Focus is in no way (beyond having 4 wheels) comparable to an Aston Vantage, but as a learner driver you arent going to get the best performance out of the Aston, and perhaps you wouldnt chose it as a daily driver anyway!

[VickyJ]

I understand what you're saying, but my question was posed more because of, in the case of washing machines (I am a lady after all), there are only something like three w/machine manufacturers in the world (all right, I don't know how many, but not that many). Between them they own all the big name brands and all those from the same stable are identical throughout the ranges, but with different fronts - and different prices to suit their "image".

It's the same with cosmetics - there are only a few cosmetic companies in the world that own most of the major brands - and often their products are identical across the brands - with the exception of packaging and price.

That's why I wondered.

Thanks for your comments about reed holders though. Incidentally, have you seen that thing that Rico have brought out which is a sort of bag and sachet of stuff that keeps reeds at a constant humidity. Do you think that that would be any good - I saw it on their website the other day.

[Canadiain]

Incidentally, have you seen that thing that Rico have brought out which is a sort of bag and sachet of stuff that keeps reeds at a constant humidity. Do you think that that would be any good - I saw it on their website the other day.
I guess if you need a reed ready to go at a moments notice its a good idea, but using the plastic legiere there is no advantage as they are good to go anyway...no wetting required. Even with cane reeds it never struck me as a major inconvenience to have to suck on a reed for a while before loading up...and there are always plasticovers if thats to much ionconvenience or if you are doubling. Im a legiere convert now, worth trying if you havent, could be the best $20 you ever spend on reeds.

The washer thing I guess is true to a certain extent, but there are differences in the facilities on offer (temp control, agitator type, different motor speed options, top / front loader, yada yada) quality of components used etc, I suppose.

[VickyJ]

Many thanks for that. I suppose I was getting a bit off the point there really.

I agree with you about the synthetic reeds, I really prefer them and while I can't claim that I have a great deal of experience with cane reeds (I've only ever played Rico Royals and I thought they sucked - but I thought it was me because I was a beginner). Anyway, a Bari* was bought for me as a present, and I was amazed at the difference in sound quality and I became an instant "convert" (if that's not too strong a way to put it given my previous lack of experience).

Of course, the Bari was harder than my old RRs, and it could have been that, but even so, I would have been happy to have stuck with the Bari, if it weren't for the fact that, even at the soft grade, it made my face cramp after about an hour's playing. Bari only comes in soft (which isn't really all that soft), medium and hard and there is a huge disparity between the grades - which is why I started looking at Legere, which go up in .25 increments. Unfortunately, I made a mistake with the one I bought - the comparison chart I was using doesn't appear to have been very accurate and I ended up with one that was even harder than the Bari I already had. Luckily, Legere offer an exchange policy, so I'm going to send it back and get one about half a strength lower and hopefully, that'll keep me going for a while.

I bought the box of Hemkes at the same time because I wanted to try a different cane reed, however, I used the same chart and appear to have ended up with reeds that are the equivalent of an RR 3. My teacher was horrified when I told him and I think they'll have to go in my "box" for some future time (well, I can't play them anyway). Still, we live and learn.

I don't have any problem with sucking the cane reeds - I don't even mind the taste and I can't understand why people find it objectionable but I am a bit put off with all that talk of scraping and adjusting and breaking them in. I just want to take a reed out of the box, slap it on my sax and get on with practising - I don't have enough time for that as it is!

Thanks for all your help. I'll come back in a bit and let you know how I get on with the softer Legere.

[rusty]

Vicky, I have a question. What strength reeds are you using? The reason I ask is that at the moment the reeds I`m using are all about 1.5 to 2.0. Because they are fairly soft I`m wondering if it is contributing to my problem (as the reed warms up and gets softer) of a very bad growl on the octave notes. If you are using the same strength reeds do you experience this?

[Dog Pants]

Vicky, I have a question. What strength reeds are you using? The reason I ask is that at the moment the reeds I`m using are all about 1.5 to 2.0. Because they are fairly soft I`m wondering if it is contributing to my problem (as the reed warms up and gets softer) of a very bad growl on the octave notes. If you are using the same strength reeds do you experience this?


It's not an uncommon occurence with softer reeds. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the "growl" on the octave notes. If the reed is getting waterlogged and soft, you might be getting a spluttering sound?

[Pete Thomas]

Thanks for your comments about reed holders though. Incidentally, have you seen that thing that Rico have brought out which is a sort of bag and sachet of stuff that keeps reeds at a constant humidity. Do you think that that would be any good - I saw it on their website the other day.

The standard reedholders that come with the reeds are fine.

I haven't seen the Rico bag and sachet, but vandoren do a neat 4 reed case with a hunidifiere. Some people report that this can cause mould to grow, but I believe this is related to the general hunidity of where you live. If you are in a dry climate then it might work better to have some kind of humidity in the reed holder, but best if there is a way of controlling it so as not to encourage growth of a reedpet.

[Canadiain]

I just want to take a reed out of the box, slap it on my sax and get on with practising
Dont we all!:)

Cane just isnt like that unfortunately. You figure it out with time and practice, and a good cane reed sounds great, but the legiere is as close to cane as Ive seen.

If you started on the Bari and are now trying cane or the legiere, it might take a little getting used to the different response charactristics, but it will be worth it!

[jgriset]

I've constructed a simple humidity controlled reed container out of 2 air-tight plastic containers, non-iodized salt and purified water. The basic concept is that the sodium in the water will keep the environment in the container at around 75% humidity by either putting moisture into the reeds (taking away some of the water in the container) or drying out the reed (using some of the salt). 75% humidity is supposed to be the optimum level for reeds; keeping them mold free, I havent had any mold yet with this system.

http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/Journal/JNL3/storage.html

Above is a link to the article.

Also, I have a portable carrier made with a sponge and rock salt.

jdg

[VickyJ]

Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you Rusty, I've not logged on for a while.

To answer your question, I started out with R/Royal 1.5s but I don't ever remember getting a growl. I did used to get the spluttery sound that Dogpants mentioned. This sounded as though saliva was rattling around in the m/piece, but I just used to give it a quick suck and the problem would go.

I am currently using the Legere (I didn't send it back, seems the chart was wrong!). I actually prefer the sound I got with the Bari*, but it made my face ache - all the muscles in my cheeks, not just my lip. This was excruciating and I realised was most likely due to the fact that, towards the end of a session, I was pushing up my chin and splaying out my lower lip to get the high notes out. I don't get any of that with the Legere so I decided that the Bari* was probably still a bit too hard for me and it would be better to work up to it and go back to it later.

I prefer the sound I get with synthetic reeds and I think I will stick with them from now on (and they're so much less trouble!).

[Oldgold]

1. Anyone care to recommend a plastic reed for alto? Manufacturer? Type?I've never tried one.
I do get tired of messing about with a drawer full of reeds wondering,
"Is that one of my rejects or have I not tried it yet?"

2. Regarding keeping mold at bay:
In most kinds of humidifiers a little white vinegar does the trick.
Might it not work with reed humidifyers. May be worth a try. Not
directly on the reed, of course, but on the moisture pad. In a small
container a little would go a long way, I would think.
Oldgold

[ssleb]

I find the reed holders that come with RRs are better than the actual holders sold separately by many manufacturers. This is because reeds get stuck inside the reed holder frequently as they hold them way too tight. The RR holders prevent my reeds from warping, protect them, and have these grooves on the inside that keep it both quite moist on the inside and aired as it is open on both ends. The end result is that the next day, I don't have to suck on my reed for quite sometime and my reeds are always moldfree.

[Dave Dolson]

Oldgold: I have various reed holders - all work well enough that I use them all the time. LaVoz, Vandoren, and others make various designs and I have most of them. Any whiz-bang new designs strike me as just another mousetrap - they all work. DAVE

[Ari]

Its funny that some special made reed holder come with a humidifier b/c ive got an old vandoren clarinet reed holder that comes with silica gel dessicator. Oh well to each his own.

BTW I like the holders that come with the vandorens .. I didn't originally after crunching 2 reeds by inserting them the wrong way - now that I've learned how to slip the reeds in I find they hold nice and flat. ( I use mostly 3's and 4's)

[gelliot2]

I used Fibracells for a while on alto and would certainly recommend giving those a try if you want to try synthetics. However, I didn't like Fibracells on soprano or tenor (too buzzy for my liking).

I've tried reed cases and the plastic holders for cane reeds and they all work fine.

The only mould problem I've ever experienced was with the Vandoren Hygrocase mentioned above. If I put a wet reed in the case and snapped the cover shut it always went mouldy (green). So, when using the Vandoren case I would simply leave it slightly open and everthing was then okay.

I always soak my reeds in water, rather than sucking them. The saliva breaks them down and softens them more quickly. The saliva will still do this eventually, even when they are soaked in water, but it will delay the process.

For me, a new reed gets soaked in a glass for about 15 minutes then played a little.
After that a reed is soaked for about 2 minutes (until the reed tip is straight) and then played as normal. I rotate a box of five reeds (I prefer JAVAs and RJS) until one eventually becomes too soft. This gets replaced with a new reed from a fresh box and the rotation continues until the next one expires. If a reed tip takes longer than 5 minutes to straighten, I also discard it from the rotation system and replace it.

If you are a beginner and using a mouthpiece with a medium tip opening, I would say that you should be using at least a No2 strength reed. This may make your facial muscles tired but this in only because your chops are weak. Facial exercises are a must in my book....actually, make that Larry Teal's Art of Saxohone Playing book.

Anyway, it's what works for me.

[weevies]

My instructor showed me his method for keeping reeds ready to play and consistant. He uses a narrow spice jar into which he inserts some pieces of foamrubber.These he soaks in a good malt whiskey. The reeds are always slightly moist and ready to play ----- and because of the alcohol, never go mouldy. You can of course use any favourite alchohol and the reeds always have a 'seasoned' aroma ---- very pleasant and it works. You can put all your reeds in use in the jar, but it needs to be small enough enough that they dont move about.

[Saxnflut]

Many, many years ago, when I first began playing professionally, I ran into a female alto player, while on a visit to Chicago. She was really good, altho playing for only two years, after many years as a violinist. She did have a pretty good teacher, some cat named Sonny Stitt....

Well, Sonny told her the best thing to do is to leave the reed on the mouthpiece, and storing the mouthpiece, or mouthpiece/neck (the easier/lazier way) in something that won't expose it to air. I just put it in the little pouch that comes with the horn, stick it in the bell, and it's seemed have worked fine for me all these years.....

PS... When I next play, most of the time, especially w/tenor, I still take it off & moisten it before playing...