LeBlanc

[hotsax]

Can someone give me some info on these horns? The student models especially, looks very similiar to YTS 23 but has no indication of Vito, which I believed once was a sister company to Yamaha and made the LeBlanc line of horns, but this horn just reads LeBlanc not LeBlanc by Vito.
Same horn or different horn ? Anyone with this knowledge please respond.

[DaveKessler]

Can someone give me some info on these horns? The student models especially, looks very similiar to YTS 23 but has no indication of Vito, which I believed once was a sister company to Yamaha and made the LeBlanc line of horns, but this horn just reads LeBlanc not LeBlanc by Vito.
Same horn or different horn ? Anyone with this knowledge please respond.

I am assuming this is not a new horn? Does it say where in the world it was made (Paris, Germany, Japan, Taiwan)?

I havent seen one in a long time. Vito has been the main LeBlanc student horn for a long time. Currently, Vito horns are made by Yamaha. There was a time when they were made by Jupiter.

My best guess is that the LeBlanc was the better end model prior to becoming the US distributor for Yanagisawa at which point, they stopped using the LeBlanc name for saxes. This is just a guess though.

[Lomar Manx]

The Leblanc horns are made by Beaugenier (sp?) in France, which is a wholly owned subsdidary of Leblanc and has been for many years. At one time or another, Vito horns have been made there, as well as by Yamaha and Yanigasawa. I believe the current alto and tenor are made at the Vito plant in Kenosha, Wisconsin. VitoPascucci obtained the stock of the Leblanc family a few years ago and now owns the company, which is run by his son, Leon Pascucci.

[markieg]

Vito Pascucci bio
http://www.geocities.com/harrir/saxophone/vito.html

LeBlanc history on their website
http://www.gleblanc.com/History/index.htm

Might shed some light. I believe my Vito was built in Paris, but I don't know for sure. It's probably from the early 1950's. Check it out at:
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/dafrootloop/vs_pics.html

[Pete]

The Vitos that are stencils of the Yamaha YAS-25 (the Asian version of Yamaha's student model) are definitely marked "Made in Japan". I think these horns were only made in the late 1980's and 1990's.

The Beaugnier and Leblanc-assembled models are definitely labelled "Made in France".

The USA-made horns are labelled, "Kenosha, Wisconsin".

You're essentially asking to encapsulate 50+ years of Vito manufacture in a one-sentence explanation, and that can't happen. I can say that the Beaugnier-made horns (and I think that this is only one or two models -- they had switchable articulated G# keys) are very nice, as are the horns with the Leblanc-system key layout.

I've not heard of Jupiter or German-made Vitos, but I'm not gonna discount that statement, either.

[Lomar Manx]

Vito Pascucci told me about five years ago that Beaugenier, Yamaha i(n the 80's), Yanigasawa (bari and soprano only), and of course the Kenosha made horns. I think they outsource the baritone now from an Asian manufacturer. I'll see Dave Suber (Sales Manager and unoffical company historian) next week at the WSC and try to find out more.

[singlereed]

The proper Leblanc French made horns (which often had the Vito model name on them) are mostly top quality pro horns made up to about 1970, not to be confused with the Japanese ones which as outlined above are student horns.

[markieg]

But saxpics, if you look at mine, there is no stamp other than the serial number. No manufacture date, location, patent, just 1483A and the engraving on the bell. Rather confusing.

[frobig]

Current production Vitos split up into two categories: Stencilled Yamaha 23 series horns, including the bari, and Taiwanese horns, from which factory I don't know. If the horn says Leblanc, I'd bet it was made for a foreign market and is in fact Yamaha product. The Yamaha Vitos come from Yamaha in pieces and are assembled by Leblanc in Kenosha, while the Taiwanese ones come assembled. If you go to Leblanc's website, you'll see that there's one other Vito alto listed, and the site says it's made in the USA. Well, I don't think they ever sold any of these, but they were honestly pretty close to bringing back an American-made Vito. There are bits and pieces of them all over Kenosha.
I've personally seen two Yani-made Vito baris, and Two French Vito baris, one of which said Noblet above or below the Vito logo. The other one was pretty weird--double articulated low C key, in other words two keys over two tone holes, operated by one touchpiece--and both of the French baris tuned very badly.

[rsperson]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2367847388

Should I stay away or are these OK?

Thanks

[smitty]

Hey, wow! Finally found some fellow Leblanc/Vito sax enthusiasts. I own a 1953 Beaugnier made alto. It is gorgeous, has the strange g# key and is has a big bore. I have posted some info on saxquest in their forums. In my opinion, (painstakingly accrued over 15 yrs of researching), French made Vitos, Leblancs of any vintage are awesome, and underappreciated horns. Yanagisawa also made vitos (not just Bari's) throughout the 60's. You can tell the Yana made horns by the inside bell keys as well as having the strange g# key. Most of the newer ones are of inferior quality and are not much of an investment, but any of the older ones (Yana made or Beaugnier made) are a good investment from the point of view that they are stout, rugged pro horns and will keep on ticking after the cheeper chinese, japanese and even american made horns have long since been put to rest in the scrap heep.

[jazzpup]

Hi there, just trying to figure out approximate year of my vito alto made in france with the word "special" on the bell, and "duke" below the serial #. It is SN 19598, any ideas on year of manufacture? It plays beautifully....really want to know more info...
thanks.
jazzpup

[mosplace]

Well, I have this theory, that the serial number is the year and the month. So I would guess yours was made 1959 in August (8). But that is only my personal theory. It has been definetly build before the late 60s since the factory was shot down than sometimes.

[The A Train]

I doubt that..unless they only made one horn a month, you would have alot of saxes that shared the same serial number

[mosplace]

Yeah, you are proboably right. But they didn´t build many saxophones at all.
I don´t have another hint. There is no way to get the serial numbers. I don´t understand, why Leblanc/Vito makes such a big deal out of these serial numbers.

[dolphyo]

i own a French Vito tenor "Duke" number#19319 so is it a 1931 september?

[frobig]

Don't know why it slipped my mind earlier...Leblanc is phasing out the Vito name except for a couple of models of Bb soprano clarinets. Everything that used to be a Vito is now a Leblanc USA. Probably didn't seem like they should put the whole thing on a horn that's stamped "Japan" like the Vito 7131 was. This is probably just the same as a late model Vito.

[frobig]

Oops--thought I was posting elsewhere.

[leonard c. Smith]

I recently bought a LeBlanc with a stamped serial # and made inTaiwan. Paid $400.00 no dents dings scratches, everything works . very clean . I am having a little difficulty with the octave key and g#. Also after playing for about an hour I start to squeak a bit. Have been playing about 6 Mos. I started back with an older model Conn 10M series. But very difficult to play. Did I scew up. I am using Rico Royale #2 hard rubber mouthpiece. I have experimented with toanl quality by using socks, mutes etc. Can U help me ?

[saintsday]

I recently bought a LeBlanc with a stamped serial # and made inTaiwan. Paid $400.00 no dents dings scratches, everything works . very clean . I am having a little difficulty with the octave key and g#. Also after playing for about an hour I start to squeak a bit. Have been playing about 6 Mos. I started back with an older model Conn 10M series. But very difficult to play. Did I scew up. I am using Rico Royale #2 hard rubber mouthpiece. I have experimented with toanl quality by using socks, mutes etc. Can U help me ?
Since you had a 10M, I'm assuming the LeBlanc is a tenor. The Taiwan horns are alleged to be Jupiters, and although they are not as desirable in the market as the Yamaha stencils, they can play nicely.
Since the squeaks don't start for an hour, you are likely just tiring your embouchure.
What is the problem with the octave and G#?

[patrickswayne]

I have a 1920-1930 Noblet alto sax model 88 serial 12631, made in Paris aw-some sound fantastic engraving the original case says leblanc and the original bill of sale says G.Leblanc Wisconsin USA. I find the USA Paris lebanc combination a little confusing anybody shed any light?

[cymru97]

Vito Pascucci told me about five years ago that Beaugenier, Yamaha i(n the 80's), Yanigasawa (bari and soprano only), and of course the Kenosha made horns. I think they outsource the baritone now from an Asian manufacturer. I'll see Dave Suber (Sales Manager and unoffical company historian) next week at the WSC and try to find out more.

Just a quick note that you can indeed find Yanagisawa-built Vito altos and tenors labelled "Vito VSP" in a triangle on the bell. At least until a few years ago the bari was still a Yani 901 stencil, I think it still is, but I don't keep up on that.

Someone else referred to the Asian Vitos as student models. While this may be true of the Yamaha and Taiwanese products, this doesn't include the Yanis, which are far beyond student level.

[saintsday]

This may help. http://www.saxgourmet.com/PaulCoatsArticles/letters_from_vito.htm

[Jazzbrass]

This may help. http://www.saxgourmet.com/PaulCoatsArticles/letters_from_vito.htm
About that to see the exchange in:
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=53895
Jazbrass: .../3 In 1927 Beaugnier joins Siour successor of Vault melts his company located 118 data bases Voltaire in Paris then with Mantes the City. For lack of a rigorous management in spite of a higher quality Beaugnier ceases its activity in 1967.
The factory is repurchased by Leblanc with the personnel and his production under its mark and its stencil key sets until 1973 will continue. Meanwhile Leblanc with open with Vito Pascucci a factory with Kenoska. Beaugnier is then associated Dolnet which takes it again personnel Lelanc and the French factory until 1986. Beaugnier will thus make sax under the marks Vito, Leblanc, Noblet, Martin and even some Yanagisawa without to count famous “the stencil key sets”
After its repurchase by Steinway in 2004, the loop is buckled Leblanc Inc. includes/understands maintaining the marks: Armstrong, Artley, Bach, Benge, Conn, King, Holton, Martin, Selmer the USA, Selmer Paris, Leblanc, Vito, Yanagisawa, PRIMA Sankyo, Scherl and Roth, Lewis, Glassel, Musser and Ludwig it is it that one calls the concentration capital intensive “World Company” /.....
and Pete Hales (Saxpics) answers:
You're copying and pasting SML info. Allow me to copy and paste more:

Citation:
Posté par www.saxpics.com/sml/history.htm
*SML starting producing saxophones around 1934, 1935, 1936 or 1937, depending on which documentation you use -- SML reports on their website that they were founded on January 12, 1935. Fred Cicetti quotes the date of 1934 in one of his articles and suggests later that saxophone production may have started in 1937.

* Officially, SML says they stopped manufacturing saxophones in 1981 (Fred Cicetti mentions 1982 -- and this is supported by Nora Post). The last SML-labelled horn seems to have been produced no later than s/n 265xx and there appears to have been only King Marigaux stencils available until after 265xx. I've received an e-mail from someone who insists he bought his 27xxx Marigaux new in 1986.

* SML produced, at their highest maximum, 400 horns a year, according to an SML spokesman. It's entirely probable that this spokesman was referring to production of the Gold Medal, because production needs to be considerably higher to make the serial number chart work. Remember: in approximately 20 years they went from s/n 1 to 15xxx.
I've got a few more things on my website, too.

Regarding Leblanc purchasing SML, I believe that's a misinterpretation of Vito Pascucci's comments from several years back: he admired the SML, but he had the Beaugnier facility. Check out http://www.geocities.com/harrir/saxophone/vito.html and the Beaugnier he's talking about that he wanted to reproduce is the Leblanc System horn. He's just equating it with being as good as SML (which is a matter of opinion).

Additionally, I think Mr. Pascucci confused his instruments: King was bought out by Seeburg and King sold the King Marigaux -- which was a stencil of the SML Gold Medal. I have not found any information anywhere that SML has, at any time, been bought out by a non-European company. Indeed, if you check the archives here, one of SML's product managers is violently opposed to the mere suggestion./ ......

[angel7461]

I just got a Vito "DUKE" to replace my horn from school days that was sold. It has a serial number 19373. It is in the case, blue and black tweed, and a real beauty !! It must have been owned by someone who really cared about it and played more that just for fun. There was a reed trimmer, several mouthpeices (one an Ebolin) and reeds. There was even two Chiron Vibrator reeds made in France.

I feel very lucky to have gotten it for less than $350.00.......and can't wait to give it a good cleaning and lookover so I can play it. I only see a little pad wear, a mark on the trill keys, and a few scratches around the neck chain area. Other than that it is very beautiful.

Any information or advise before I take it in to any old music store for a once-over would be appreciated.

[saintsday]

Welcome, Angel. There is no clear and reliable history of the Vito marque, however the best guess is that your sax was manufactured in France by the Beaugnier company. Does it say France anywhere on it? These can play very well and are clearly not student level instruments.

[angel7461]

Hello and Thank you,

Yes, the horn says "Made in France" on the bell.

angle

[saintsday]

Sounds like you may have a jewel. These are relatively unknown and undervalued. Good luck and let us know when you get it playing.