vintage buescher question

[clarnibass]

hi, i am thinking about getting an old buescher sax (soprano or alto, probably both in the end). i looked in the pictures here: http://www.vintagesax.com/soprano.html
and it looks like the buescher soprano sax doesn't have a ring to hang it on a strap. is that right or am i missing something? do i have to hold it like a clarinet?
i have another question. my friend lent me his selmer series III soprano. it's very comfortable and easy to play on. how are the old bueschers copare the new selmers in comfort and sound?

thnak you.

[Helen]

Neck strap rings on straight sopranos are a fairly recent phenomena. I had one added to my Selmer Mark VI because my wrist gets tired of holding it at the correct angle. Vintage curved Bueshers and Conns have a ring for a neck strap. You just have to customize a neck strap for them, because regular neck straps can't be shortened enough to be useful.

[clarnibass]

so i can ask a repairman to build a neck strap ring on an old straight soprano sax right?

[max]

so i can ask a repairman to build a neck strap ring on an old straight soprano sax right?Yup. (or you could just play it without a strap... it's really not too hard)

I recently replaced my Ser III sop with a vintage Buescher.

In terms of comfort, I wouldn't say one is better than the other, but the Selmer is definitely "modern" feeling, and the Buescher is more "vintage" feeling, if that makes sense.

I actually prefer the vintage feel over the modern, but it's kind of a personal thing - you'll just have to see for yourself.

In terms of sound, there is no contest - the Buescher is much much darker, warmer, and more vocal sounding than the Ser III.

Again, all IMHO...

[clarnibass]

well i'm a clarinet player. i only have a selmer series III for maybe a week and only play it about 20 minutes a day. it's too heavy to play it without a strap. is the buescher lighter?
i wouldn't know which has a modern feeling and which hasa vintage feeling since i don't even play saxophone or have any experience with them.
thanks very much for your help.

[max]

is the buescher lighter? Yes.

Adding a strap is easy enough if you want to do it, though...

[SuiZen]

I have a nice vintage curved Buescher TT that I recently purchased from Gayle at vintagesax. I find it very comfortable, and the strap is a big help.

I don't find the next strap very useful on my straight soprano with the straight neck. It is helpful, comfort-wise, with the curved neck. It's not as comfortable as the curved sax. though.

Bill

[Helen]

If you haven't had a chance to play a curved soprano, I'd recommend you give it a try as well. I'm not really a small horn player, but I do some soprano solos in one of the bands I'm in. I never use my straight soprano, only the curved. It is much easier to mike, and I personally like the sound better.

Part of that will undoubtably be the set up, but it seems to me that a curved soprano sounds more "saxophonish" than a straight one. I'm sure many will disagree and tell me that it only where the sound travels in relation to my hearing it, or that it's the set up. I'd say, yes both of those things factor into my perception of my sound, but it seems to me that shape does matter. :roll:

[Dave Dolson]

I've played soprano (curved, straight, curved neck, straight neck on a curvy, etc.) for more than 46 years - no strap. The strap is uncomfortable to me when my left thumb rubs against it. I realize some folks may have hand/wrist problems, but that is not my case. I don't like straps on sopranos.

I have a new Yana S992, two curved Yanas (SC901 and SC902), and three vintage sops (all straight, two TTs and a 1923 Conn), plus I've owned many curved and straight sops over the years. The vintage curvies with one bell key on the right side of the bell bother me when my right fingers touch the bell key. The newer curved Yanas have their bell keys on the left side of the bell, thus removing any interference with the player's right fingers.

As to sound and volume when comparing curved vs. straight - that is subjective, in my opinion. The curvy will throw the sound right back at the player (great for amplified environments), but out front, I doubt if the audience will hear and real difference. The other advantage to a curvy is the smaller case - easier to travel.

I recently sold a Serie III sop when I bought the S992 (the Yana being superior in every way). With all of these choices, my favorite soprano (and alto, of which I have four) is my late '20's silver Buescher TT (and early '20's TT alto). It has the easiest keywork, the best sound, and a good scale (as good as my Yanas). While my Yana sopranos are wonderful horns, there is just something better about the TT. It very well be it's authentic look for the type of music I play.

Comfort is subjective, too. That Serie III you tried probably was comfortable - most new saxophones have tight keywork and fairly good ergonomics. But both of my TTs have equally comfortable keywork (at least to me) - they are just different from a new soprano. Good luck! DAVE

[Roger Aldridge]

Clarnibass,

I have only a couple of things to add to the good advice that Dave and the others have given you. The Buescher True-Tone soprano I purchased from Gayle a year and a half ago is simply amazing in it's beautiful sound and excellent intonation. In the past I played Selmer sopranos (modern and vintage). For what I want in a soprano sound, Buescher is IT.

Having said that, I ran into physical problems playing my TT soprano. Even when resting it's bell on my knee, my right wrist and shoulder would quickly get trashed.

Happily, a modification is being made to my soprano which should enable me to play it safely. The original thumb rest is being replaced with a modern Selmer one. Importantly, the new thumb rest will be off-set so that I'll be able to play the horn with my right wrist in a straighter position. When the modification is completed I'll have the vintage Buescher sound I love so much along with a greater degree of physical comfort. :D

[clarnibass]

what is the different between buescher elkhart and buescher that doesn't say elkhart?

[paulwl]

"The Buescher (or Aristocrat or 400), Elkhart, Ind." = Pro-line, full-featured horns.
"Elkhart, Built By Buescher" (usually with an elk's head in a heart shape) = Lower priced line, using older tooling/dies, less workmanship, fewer features. Often very good players with the same basic body tube.
"Buescher(®) Aristocrat (200, 400, Super 400) U.S.A." = Intermediate lines made under Selmer ownership (post 1963). Quality varies from very good to mediocre.
"Buescher®" with swoosh shape underneath = Current intermediate line, made in Taiwan.

[clarnibass]

i hope this will be my last question (or at least i'm sure you hope.
why the bueschers aristocrats in the 290xxx seriel are so much cheaper?

you can see this: http://www.saxgourmet.com/VINTAGE_SAXOPHONE_VALUE_GUIDE.htm

i found a buscher in the 330xxx area for 800$ is it a good deal?

thank you.

[Roger Aldridge]

It would help us to have some more information about the Buescher you're checking out. Is it an alto? You see, Buescher made several models in the 330,xxx serial number range (around 1950). There was the Aristocrat (aka Big B) and the 400 (aka Top Hat & Cane). Somewhere starting around 331,xxx Buescher also made a Aristocrat model 140. From what I understand, the 140 was essentially a Big B Aristocrat without the fancier engraving. Thus, the different concurrent Buescher models in the 50's can be confusing.

$800 sounds really cheap to me for either a 330,xxx Aristocrat or 400. Can you determine it's playing condition as well the condition of it's finish? Also, can you described the horn's engraving? Do you see a large B or a 400 with a top hat & cane or something else?

I'll leave it to others to debate Steve's value guide. The market is often driven by demand and perception. As has been discussed in other Buescher threads, some players love the Aristocrat and others love the 400. Of course, others are drawn to the earlier models -- True Tone and New Aristocrat. It's my personal feeling that any Buescher from around 203,xxx to 340,xxx can be a superb horn depending upon it's condition. Of course, one can find perfectly great playing Bueschers with serial numbers before and after this range. This is simply what I think of as being an overall good serial number range. Just a personal opinion.

[clarnibass]

it's an alto in a good condition, i'm pretty sure it's been repaired lately. i'll check for engravings later.

[Pinnman]

I'm not sure if I should put forward my own solution is such exalted company. However, my 238K staright soprano came with a piece of cork under the thumb rest for greater comfort and a small hole through the thumb hole.

I have fed a piece of plastic thread through the thumb hole and fitted a small key ring to this so that I can hook onto it with a sling. Over the whole of this (thumb rest and thread), I have slipped a piece of plastic clarinet thumb rest tubing to avoid the discomfort of the knots digging into my thumb. :shock:

Very Heath Robinson, but, believe it or not, it works a treat. Previously, playing the sop was murder; now I can play (if only to my own satisfaction) much more freely.

Barry.