Jubilee Tenor Construction Method

[AlistairD]

Hi,

I tried out the following Borgani Jubilee's yesterday:

* Borgani Jubilee - Black
* Borgani Jubilee - Pearl Gold
* Borgani Jubilee - Pearl Silver
* Borgani Jubilee - Copper 24K (Gold and Copper)
* Borgani Jubilee - Joe Lovano (Pearl Silver- gold plated keys)
* Borgani Jubilee - Vintage Mk 2 (Unlacquered Brushed Brass)


My wife was there listening to give a second opinion and they clearly all sounded different. Her favorite was the Vintage and mine was the Gold and Copper.

According to the sales literature which is not very well translated from Italian, the finishes (apart from the Vintage of course) are Galvanized... Normally this is refering to Zinc on Iron or Steel not other metals on Brass. Does anyone know how the Borgani finishes are applied (or is it their secret...)

I have no idea whether it is the finish or differences in manufacturer but there is clearly a sound difference between these horns.....

Thanks for any ideas.

[brassnaked]

Does anyone know how the Borgani finishes are applied (or is it their secret...)

I have no idea whether it is the finish or differences in manufacturer but there is clearly a sound difference between these horns.....

Thanks for any ideas.
The brass that is used may not be "ordinary" brass...it may be first, specially alloyed with a small amount of the finish metal, for example, gold finish has gold in the brass alloy, again, a VERY small amount...silver finish has a VERY small amount of silver in the brass alloy. Vintage may simply have a GENEROUS amount of pure copper, maybe even some phosphor bronze in the alloy.

Then, the finishes are probably applied using a somewhat proprietary cathodic electrodeposition galvanic process that yields VERY thick and uniform finish metals which THEY believe somehow may "specially bond" to the same metal atoms in the brass alloy allowing the clad finish to be unitized with the alloyed brass base metal and setting-up a common resonance between the finish and alloyed brass base metal. This is only my opinion, however, doing just a small bit of research on the web, I was able to find info relating to this very process but it was NOT for musical instruments. Again, this is only my opinion. Just a thought.

BTW, when I play tested 3 different "finish" tenors at Robertos when I finally settled on the Vintage, I also must say that there was a world of difference in sound between the gold, the silver and the vintage. I took my girlfriend with me and she does not play or know anything about saxophones, other than what she has assimilated by osmosis by being around me, and she emphatically says she could CLEARLY hear the tonal differences between all 3 finish types. Just my 2 cents! ENJOY!

[AlistairD]

I took my girlfriend with me and she does not play or know anything about saxophones, other than what she has assimilated by osmosis by being around me, and she emphatically says she could CLEARLY hear the tonal differences between all 3 finish types. Just my 2 cents! ENJOY!

Exactly the same with me... No idea why they sounded clearly different though.... Dare I say that it could be the finish/alloy mix?

By the way, how do you find you Vintage Jubilee?

[Dr G]

The finish on the silver pearl Jubilee is not what we, in the US, commonly know as "galvanized". I owned a silver pearl and know that it was not galvanized - the finish is much thicker than zinc plating (which is quite distinctive in its own way).

I do not know where brassnaked got that information, but as a PhD in materials science, I cannot concur with any of those suppositions - either regarding the change in alloying content or the finish application.

I found my Jubilee to have a unique voice and enjoyed it for the few years that I owned it. In the end, my Ref 36 proved a better match for my needs.

[brassnaked]

I do not know where brassnaked got that information, but as a PhD in materials science, I cannot concur with any of those suppositions - either regarding the change in alloying content or the finish application.
Nor can you offer any meaningful insight in to Borgani's unique manufacturing process!

First of all...if you take the time to READ my post, IT IS NOT information...I VERY CLEARLY stated that it was my opinion and maybe they did this or probably they do that. It always amazes me how people only see what they want to see in these posts and don't see what they don't want to see!

Just a social experiment...I found out what I wanted to find out...I have no idea how they do what they do, I'm just glad they do it! How does Borgani make those horns with those finishes? Why it must be the Keebler Elves in the Hollow Tree!

[brassnaked]

By the way, how do you find you Vintage Jubilee?

Alistair: I love my Borgani Jubilee Tenor...I now have 4 tenors, all keepers, all because of this reason or that reason...my Borgani is my passion.
I have been fortunate in the short time I've been a willing slave to this GAS-induced thing we call saxophone playing...I've had the opportunity to play ALL of the MAJOR horns...new and vintage. MY personal choice is the Borgani...no matter what other horn I play, so far I've not found any that would replace the Vintage tenor...Of course, I still don't have one of Tommy Inderbinen's hand made tenors yet, but, It would have to be SOME horn to make me switch. Yes, I'm perfectly happy with my main horn, for whatever reason...it just suits me!

[Dr G]

Nor can you offer any meaningful insight in to Borgani's unique manufacturing process!

Don't get your underwear in a knot. :shock: As a scientist, I place great value in knowing what is NOT a possible answer to an issue - it helps better define what could be correct.

FWIW: The coating on the silver pearl is very thick as evident by the chip on one of the posts on my horn - it is not plating.

Enjoy your social experiment - whatever that means. 8-)

[Canadiain]

According to the sales literature which is not very well translated from Italian, the finishes (apart from the Vintage of course) are Galvanized...
Im thinking that is just bad translation of plated.

Plating is (generally) a galvanic process. No great mystery. The big problem with plating large hunks of non uniform metal is acheiving a uniform coating thickness. But of course there is nothing that says that there is a uniform coating thickness involved here. Dont worry about the technobable, let your ears be the final judge.

[Tryptykon]

Nor can you offer any meaningful insight in to Borgani's unique manufacturing process!

First of all...if you take the time to READ my post, IT IS NOT information...I VERY CLEARLY stated that it was my opinion and maybe they did this or probably they do that. It always amazes me how people only see what they want to see in these posts and don't see what they don't want to see!

Just a social experiment...I found out what I wanted to find out...I have no idea how they do what they do, I'm just glad they do it! How does Borgani make those horns with those finishes? Why it must be the Keebler Elves in the Hollow Tree!

Brassnaked .. " Simmer down now ! Simmer down now ! " :D

sorry, I had to throw some Cheri Oteri in this thread :twisted:

The G man referred to your post as a supposition; which means to "suppose"

You were . . . `` supposing ``.

No big deal .. simmer down now !;)