What's The Difference Between C Melody Tenor and Bb Tenor?

[blacktenorsax]

I play Conn 10M tenor and I was wondering what differences a C Melody tenor sax has compared to the Bb Tenor. Besides the different key are there any major differences?

[Dave Dolson]

Blacktenor: While the pitch (Bb vs. C) is a significant difference, the size of each horn is different (the C being smaller), the position of the C-tenor is somewhat different (hard to describe but many folks think the C is not as comfortable to hold as a Bb tenor (I'm among those who thinks the C, at least MY C-Mel, is uncomfortable compared to my tenor), and the tonal qualities of each horn are different.

The C-Mel tenor has an unusual timbre and it may be because of the bore design (a subject of some debate here on SOTW).

Lastly, C saxophones are no longer in production (another controversy here on SOTW) so if you find one to buy, it will be of vintage design, not modern. DAVE

[bruce bailey]

I have always thought of the C melody as a large Alto rather than a short Tenor. Most of the bores are tapered as an Alto and the bell area is much less flared than a tenor.

[Pinnman]

It's odd to think that way, Bruce, because it is actually a tenor sax (C tenor), but I do see the point.

The C tenor was something of a novelty instrument in the early days of the saxophone. It was marketed to the unsuspecting as being suitable for playing at home with a piano and using the melody like (hence the name, Melody) of a piano score.

It is making a (very) small comeback in the UK in folk groups playing traditional folk music.

The reputation is that it is the wost of all saxes to keep in tune. I don't have any experience of this, it is just what my tutor told me when I first started out on sax. I suspect that Dave and Bruce can comment more on this.

[cmelodysax]

Pinnman - not just in folk groups...... Ask your tutor (if you're still talking) what C-Mels he's personally played, and what modern mouthpieces he tried on it/them. I suspect his prejudice is just based on anecdotal evidence. As with an awful lot of people.

[danarsenault]

It took some work and a few mouthpieces, but my 1920-ish TT C tenor is as happy as a clam, intonation-wise with my JodyJazz 6* HR. It is also a damned good player, having completed its overhaul and breakin/adjustment period. It was no worse to bring up to snuff, in terms of getting used to its quirks, than any other sax, and better than many.

[Dr G]

The reputation is that it is the wost of all saxes to keep in tune.

That's often because people are trying to use alto or tenor mouthpieces.

You'll get a similar result if you try to use an alto mouthpiece on soprano. How 'bout that! :shock:

[danarsenault]

Interestingly, to me at least, was that my Buescher TT C tenor was NOT happy, pitchwise, with the completely unmarked huge-chamber stock piece that came with it. My tenor mouthpiece saved the day, though, when my alto pieces did not.

[blacktenorsax]

Sorry for the dumb question. I haven't ever heard of them and neither has my teacher.

[Dave dix]

Do a search and ask your teacher to do one also
Dave

[blacktenorsax]

I did a search before I post. Guess I didn't look hard enough. Thanks for your help.

[Dave Dolson]

Blacktenor: One of the most famous jazzers to play C-Mel tenor was Frank "Tram" Trumbauer, who made many recordings in the 1920's with Bix Beiderbecke and others.

Go to www.redhotjazz.com (you'll need RealPlayer to listen, but that is a free download), search for "Trumbauer" and look through his recordings for TRUMBOLOGY. Amazing playing! DAVE

[cmelodysax]

Dr G - the reason that tenor and alto mouthpieces (to a great extent) do work on C-Mels is because there is only a tone and a minor third difference between the respective saxes.

To compare that with your (quote) "if you try to use an alto mouthpiece on soprano" example is hardly a sensible comparison. What do you use on your C-Melody ?

[Pinnman]

cmelodysax, Some questions can be difficult; in this case because my old tutor died over a decade ago. He did have a C tenor, though, and that is how it happened that, in my relative youth and inexperience, I asked the question about his unusual looking sax. Was he speaking out of prejudice? - well, he played with some of the most famous of British band leaders in the 30s & 40s, so I think he knew his onions.

That said, necessarily I think, your website references look remarkably interesting. I'll follow them up when I have a moment.

[cmelodysax]

Pinnman - sad to say that, until I had time to experiment with C-mels, I had the standard misconceptions about them. I will concede that most sax players, confronted with a C-mel and the 'stock' 20's mouthpiece, would almost certainly not take the instrument seriously.

I don't think C-Mels will ever completely get over that hurdle, but some very fine instruments were built (especially towards the end of the C-mel era), and, combined with a better mouthpiece, do have a useful role to play......

[tbone]

Pinnman - not just in folk groups...... Ask your tutor (if you're still talking) what C-Mels he's personally played, and what modern mouthpieces he tried on it/them. I suspect his prejudice is just based on anecdotal evidence. As with an awful lot of people.

Truer words were never spoken! 8-)

Sadly prejudice based just on anecdotal evidence isn't only restricted to C-mels.
It's also used for platings, lacquers, reeds, ligatures, mouthpieces, pads, reso's, and just about everything else pertaining to the world of saxophones. One guy comes up with a half baked theory, five guys repeat it, then twenty five and before you know it, "It's the Gospel Truth"! :x Approach things with an open mind and don't get caught up in all that "Weird Science" & "Horse Hockey"! ;)

[bruce bailey]

AS far as intonation, I see no real difference with an Alto, Tenor ir C mpc. I currently have a Martin and when changing mpc. I thin it is more what you are used to playing. I am mostly and Alto player and find the Alto piece to be the best for me. The biggest problem is response in the low end but with a Tenor, I have trouble with getting enough control overall. The original C pieces really have the best overall response, but oh, what a muffled sound. I will probably bit the bullet and get a Morgan one day but for now it is hard for me to spend over $150 for a mpc for a horn I paid $85 for! I think there is a good future for the C and to me the mouthpiece quest is the biggest as the horns are plentiful on ebay. There have been some nice gold plated ones recently in the $500 range.
Back to the intonation; I think that a Buescher, Martin or Conn C Melody is no more out of tune than an Alto or Tenor of the era. We just tend to not be able to adjust to the heavy resistance of the bore and expect it to be as free as a tenor. I find it almost like going from a Soprano to a Clarinet. I still stick by me assessment of it being more Alto like than like a Tenor. It may be only a step off from a tenor but it is still only a step and a half from an Alto.
For a mpc opening I use the theory of being 40% away form a tenor and 60% form an alto, thus if I like a.075 on Alto and a .095 on Tenor, I should like about a .087 on a C melody.

[Pinnman]

Sadly prejudice based just on anecdotal evidence isn't only restricted to C-mels.

Agreed. The entire musical establishment was prejuduced against Adolphe Sax from the outset, amongst other things because he threatened their livelihood.

Prejudice has continued to this day, especially amongst the clasical community and classical composers. (Note the word, 'amongst', i.e. by no means all.) It is understandable, in a sense, because the saxophone lacks the consistency of other instruments; put it this way, the sound from one saxophonist differs from that of the next (a much considered point on SOTW, of course).


I suspect his prejudice is just based on anecdotal evidence. As with an awful lot of people.

Truer words were never spoken!

I hate to say it, but utter codswallop. This is a man who played with top bands and ran a music store for 30 years. He taught saxophone and clarinet and arranged for bands in the UK's largest entertainments centre outside London. Yet he owned two saxes, a Bb tenor and a C tenor (plus a clarinet). (And he didn't suffer from GAS; he bought the Bb in the 1930s and kept it until he died, although I don't know when he acquired the C tenor.)

Is this really someone you can safely and justifiably accuse of prejudice against the C tenor? You did not know all this, of course, but that is not the point. So I think it reasonable to quote from someone elsewhere in this thread:


One guy comes up with a half baked theory, five guys repeat it, then twenty five and before you know it, "It's the Gospel Truth"!

[fred12]

I've noted a lot of comments about Cmels not playing well with alto or tenor mpcs, so here's my 2 cents worth. I was given a 1911 Holton cmel, (certainly not what I'd call a fine instrument) but repadded it and got it to play. It had a noname mpc, looked like an alto piece, sounded stuffy. Bought a new Beechler C mel mpc, much louder and edgy but the intonation was poor, didn't like the sound at all. Then I tried an old Buescher alto piece. It is quieter than the Beechler but - the intonation on this horn is quite good! Go figure.

[saxmong]

Did you get your question answered thru all that?

My c mel works nicely with an old c mel mpc.

The bore size is not much bigger than an alto tho longer.
Bb tenors are fatter.
only 2 half steps different.

C mels sound "gostozo"

[cmelodysax]

When I put a stock C-mel mouthpiece back on a C-Mel just for a bit of nostalgia (to replace the normal tenor Lawton/Link/Berg) it gives a not unreasonable sound - with modern bass clari reeds, and once I've got used to the closed lay. I can understand why some players use the old mpcs.

But then when I revert back to the modern tenor mpcs - that's when you really notice the difference ! Different horses for different courses....

Do vintage tenor players (the sax, not the player..) use the vintage 'stock' tenor mouthpieces on their vintage tenors ? I suspect not, in most cases.

[Connical]

I agree with CMelodySax. A modern MPC for any C-Mel is a must. The one thing I find that a modern MPC gives is an open, NON-muffled sound.

One thing I havn't heard too much discussion about is the power and
versatility these horns offer. It's hard for me to explain, but when I
play a C Mel, It feels like no other. Sweet & soft like the best altos,
yet powerful and strident like the best Tenors.

Since these horns are fairly inexpensive, pick one up and spend a little
time with one when you can. It may just surprise you. It surprised me !

Toobz

[kavala]

Sorry for the dumb question. I haven't ever heard of them and neither has my teacher.

I can understand a beginner not knowing of C Melody saxes,
but a teacher ?????? Duh !!!

[pease-pudding]

My own experience would be in total keeping with previous replies, I found my C mel very stuffy using the original mouthpieces so had some opened up, this made a vast difference although the upper stack was still slightly stuffy. I then invested in one of Ed Svoboda's Tenor Chicago Mouthpieces and this time the improvement was incredible whilst keeping great intonation.

With regard to the ergonomics I feel that by being a vintage returnee to the saxophone I probably have an advantage as I'm not really that used to modern keywork, basically I do'nt know any better; sometimes ignorance is bliss.

The one thing I have difficulty with is the vehemence that is aroused when C melodies are mentioned anyone would think that playing these instruments was akin to devil worship, note a recent thread on another, nameless forum, when a father asked for advice re getting a c for his 12 year old son. I can understand people not accepting that the c has a future but why the hostility? Exactly what harm are we doing by keeping a vintage instrument alive and, possibly, seeing it re-introduced. In almost any other area of endeavour keeping the past alive seems to be accepted as laudable, but apparently not in the world of saoxophones, can anyone explain .

[Grumps]

...note a recent thread on another, nameless forum, when a father asked for advice re getting a c for his 12 year old son. I can understand people not accepting that the c has a future but why the hostility? Exactly what harm are we doing by keeping a vintage instrument alive and, possibly, seeing it re-introduced.
The harm is advising someone who knows very little about the saxophone to spend money and fix up a horn for their child who will not be able to play it in any organized groups common for such level of ability. For a student to blossom and grow in ability, not being able to play in modern ensembles would be an extreme handicap. I find it wholly irresponsible to advise a parent who is seeking a horn for their chiold to buy a C Melody. You interpret that viewpoint as hostility. I find it to be common sense.

[pease-pudding]

If you read my reply on that particular thread you will note that I acknowledge that even on the C Melody forum the advise may well be to stick to more "accepted" saxophones for a beginner, so on that we agree. However, where I think we must agree to differ is regarding the attitude towards C melodies on the whole, I feel that there are number of posters on various forums who can only be described as hostile, there is a level of animosity towards these instruments, and prehaps those who support them, which goes far beyond simply not seeing them as relevant or as having a future, it is this I find difficult to understand.

[cmelodysax]

I do think that the animosity/hostility would be better directed towards the sellers on ebay who frequently and blatantly list C-Mel's as Tenor's !

I always email those sellers when I see the 'error', and usually get something back like "What do you know ? I took the sax to a local music shop (or teacher or musician or repairman) and I was told it's a tenor....." The more I persist, the ruder they get, that is if they can be bothered to answer at all.

Those are the people who do C-mels a dis-service, I know it's a case of 'Buyer beware', but some buyers don't beware - and as a result part with hard-earned cash for something that isn't what it seems. Most responsible C-mel players will advise that C-mels are for the more experienced or maybe 'returning' musician, as an addition to existing Bb/Eb saxes, or for someone specifically wanting an instrument in 'C'. Don't let our enthusiasm for the instrument be confused with mis-information - it's not ! (but I think the critics know that, we're just an easy target, pease-pud.....)

But then I suspect someone will want to argue with me about that.........:? Go on then........

[saxmong]

Some of the great Jazz players learned on C mels.
Whats the problem for beginners?

Some beginners don't like ensembles, or marching!

Ignorance begets animosity!

[cmelodysax]

OK saxmong - I hope I haven't inadvertently turned into a C-mel knocker.....;)

This is a subject dear to my heart - I'm currently emailing a lady who bought a C-Mel - not from me - by 'mistake', instead of a tenor, for her son, who is learning on alto, and that's a slightly different situation than starting on a 20's C-mel.

I was being honest about the "C-mel not really for beginners" thing. I've taught kids in their early teens, and, by comparison with modern alto's (because a tenor is probably just a little big at an early age), for a present-day child to learn on the slightly quirky keywork and intonation of a 20's C-Mel is, imho, adding just a little bit too much to the learning curve - in most cases, maybe not all. After all, do we teach kids to drive in 80 year old cars ?

They have enough obstacles to oversome - OK, with real enthusiasm anyone can learn on any sax, but then you have the other problem that in the classes at school, there'd be probably then be a C-sax that's not in the same pitch as all the other kids on alto....... I know that's arguing against their real usefulness, but it's current reality. A lot of kids, including some of the future jazz greats, started on C-mel in the 20's because that was where the market was - look at the period adverts that show kids in shorts playing C-Mels. Don't we all wish that the C-mel had carried on being produced, that might then be the situation now !! Wouldn't that be great ?

So, I'm not being disloyal to C-Mels, just saying that a 20's C-mel is not really ideal for the majority of todays younger 21'st century beginners. But hopefully, that's where your new C-Sax comes in, and more power to you for having the guts to start the project.

Hey, that's why I'm such a supporter of your project - a new C-Sax, with modern keywork, good intonation, and that doesn't smell or look like it has just been exhumed, is just what is needed to 'turn the tide'. Slowly but surely, I hope. Sorry for the over-long explanation....

[Grumps]

Some of the great Jazz players learned on C mels.
Whats the problem for beginners?
If true, that was generations ago.


Some beginners don't like ensembles, or marching!
Well, there are plenty of young players who destest marching, but ensemble playing is critical to their development. To push this aside solely to promote a dead horn that is popular with an only an eccentric niche, again, is wholly irresponsible.


Ignorance begets animosity!
Well, I'll admit to the latter, but only if you admit to the former...

[cmelodysax]

Uh-oh, the knockers are returniing again, think I preferred my reply to saxmong - I'll just grab my "eccentric niche" saxophones and head for the hills.........:)

[pease-pudding]

I think I'll join you, along with the c soprano players, c clarinettists, devil worshippers, child molesters and maybe the odd xaphoonist.

[saxmong]

Sorry grumps but
in my country there are a whole lot of people who like to drive cars from the 50s and 60s and some even like cars even older.
In Japan they buy 1950 model Morris cars with Toyota motors in them!

I'm simply trying to get a useful instrument made more useable for those that want them.

There's room for variety in my world!

[cmelodysax]

Saxmong - you really should have a 'signature' for your postings, with info about the new C-mel, and a link to your website ! Something subtle, and tasteful - like my 'footer' ;)

If you want advice on how to do do it, only too glad to help, as, I'm sure, are others. If you then invite others to link to you, it'll help drive up your Search Engine ratings. Shame to waste an opportunity for free publicity ! :)

[Grumps]

Sorry grumps but
in my country there are a whole lot of people who like to drive cars from the 50s and 60s and some even like cars even older.
In Japan they buy 1950 model Morris cars with Toyota motors in them!
I wouldn't recommend any of those cars to a twelve year old either...

[cmelodysax]

Saxmong - you're never going to win with Grumps.......:? Just agree to differ, and join me and pease-pud in the hills - where only the fish are biting :)

[SuperTourist]

I'm a new convert to the C Soprano. I love the tone - it seems less heavy that Bb soprano. And, of course, I already have a tenor and an alto if I want to play in an ensemble with written music.

So, my question is this -- I'd really like to try a C melody, especially if they're as cheap as it seems, but I'm not really comfortable with ebay. I live in the Bay Area in Califoria. Is there anyplace around here that's likely to have one for sale?

[saxmong]

I wouldn't recommend any of those cars to a twelve year old either...

There we agree! They are too young to drive!
And perhaps 12 year olds shoud start on smaller saxes too.
Just a shame they will have to transpose all their favourite tunes from the guitar music their friends have.

[KenK]

SuperTourist: in San Carlos, there is a shop called Hornucopia ((650) 593-3050) that specializes in used instruments of all sorts, brass, woodwinds, modern and vintage. I've seen C melody saxes in their shop from time to time.

[Connical]

I wouldn't recommend any of those cars to a twelve year old either...
Hey Grumps, how about a Mercedes C class instead !

[Grumps]

Just a shame they will have to transpose all their favourite tunes from the guitar music their friends have.
Yeah, it's just simply a shame when kids have to use a little initiative to learn how to transpose. Just think of all the time they're wasting gaining a better understanding of music. I guess in a perfect world, no one would have to transpose. They already have buttons for it on keyboard. One world, one sheet music... I can see it all now.

[saxmong]

I'm not against a full understanding of music but lets let the little darlings get the basics under their belts before we start on technical difficulties.

Grumps, Are you so experienced that you have forgotten the mighty wall of difficulty students face?

C mels don't actually remove difficulty, they just defer it for pop lovers.

One of my customers loves Jazz and he has to play difficult keys whether using an Eb or a C. He wants a C to improve his rounded ness as a musician and because of the tone quality.

[SuperTourist]

SuperTourist: in San Carlos, there is a shop called Hornucopia ((650) 593-3050) that specializes in used instruments of all sorts, brass, woodwinds, modern and vintage. I've seen C melody saxes in their shop from time to time.

Thanks, KenK,

I'm going to look into that over the Christmas break.

Man, what a great resource this Sax on the Web is.

Thanks again.

[cmelodysax]

SuperTourist - I just love to see a C-Soprano amongst your horns.

Can I ask, I have a website about C-Saxes (link below), and I'm just developing the C-Sop section. Do you have any pics of your King C-Sop I could feature (you'll get a mention, of course), and does the King C-Sop stop at palm/high Eb, or does it go all the way up to F ? I notice you say "Have camera will travel", so pics shouldn't be a problem..... :)

You don't see too many King C-Sops around, and I always had the notion that they went up to F. You can either contact me through this topic, or a saxontheweb private message, or there are normal email links on my website.

[saxmong]

King, up to high F last I heard!

[Grumps]

Grumps, Are you so experienced that you have forgotten the mighty wall of difficulty students face?
Nope. Started on recorder myself. But that wasn't in C either...

[saxmong]

Please enlighten me?
I thought recorders WERE in the key of C.

[richardc7167]

The soprano and tenor recorders are in C. The alto is in F.

Wow, that sounds like good keys for saxophones.

[Grumps]

Yup, it was an alto recorder.

[saxmong]

Grumps,
Have you tried an F alto sax?

[SuperTourist]

Go to www.redhotjazz.com (you'll need RealPlayer to listen, but that is a free download), search for "Trumbauer" and look through his recordings for TRUMBOLOGY. Amazing playing! DAVE

I second that.

when you go to the site, what you're looking for is the page entitled Frankie Trumbaur and His Orchestra. It has about forty tunes by that group. It's actually at http://www.redhotjazz.com/fto.html

Tram's technique on Trumbology is amazing. How does he tongue his notes so fast?

[Grumps]

Grumps,
Have you tried an F alto sax?
Nope, never have. My Eb alto works just fine. But it's not being in the key of C that has most folks lacking a preference for a C Melody. They're just not as sweet as altos and lack the guts of a tenor. The sound just doesn't appeal to me (even when played by a master), and by the lack of their use in today's music, I'd suspect I'm not the only one that feels that way. It is all about the sound, isn't it?

[saxmong]

it's not being in the key of C that has most folks lacking a preference for a C Melody. They're just not as sweet as altos and lack the guts of a tenor. The sound just doesn't appeal to me (even when played by a master), and by the lack of their use in today's music, I'd suspect I'm not the only one that feels that way. It is all about the sound, isn't it?

Once again you are half right!
Sound is a subjective area and 99% of the people on this C melody forum actually play a C melody and actually like the sound.
The difference between those who do and the masses who don't has more to do with people not wanting the quirks and or the risk of buying an 85 year old horn.
Most people prefer newer instruments!

Mouthpiece and setup make s a big difference to the sound as do resonators so the key is not the main factor.

[cmelodysax]

Saxmong - you have to ask the question - " has Grumps actually played a decent C-Mel in a good state of repair, and with a modern mouthpiece setup ?" Or, for that matter, a C-Sop ?

For each knocker (there goes that word again...) on this part of saxontheweb, there are far more enthusiasts, or interested musicians. I'm happy that way- a little criticism now and again stops us from being too complacent.

Merry Christmas, and a C-full New Year, to all. :santa: I'm off to do Santa impressions....

[Grumps]

I'm off to do Santa impressions....
I was wondering when you'd have to get back to work.
Give my best to Mrs. Claus...

My personal experience with C Melodies is limited, I'll admit. I had my eye on one hanging on the wall of a shop in Baltimore about fifteen years or so ago. I thought I'd need one to complete my collection. They wanted $200 for it, but even though I knew I could talk them down, I eventually passed. A very experienced, veteran reed man that I play with took the dive not too long ago; looking for that old time flavor I suppose. Ultimately he was unhappy with the horn for the reasons expressed above (as compared to alto and tenor). But let's say I've never touched one, or played one. How would that counter any argument I've made regarding their use (or lack thereof) in modern music, or their limited potential due to same. Or even the way they sound; played by the best. I made a conscious decision not to buy one, though once intrigued; and I only express my reasons why as part of the discussion. Not meant for any C Melody enthusiast to take offense.

[t-duck]

Ok, I read this forum several times a week and have come to count on it as a great information source. I need your expertise.

Guys, I have lust in my heart for a C-mel I saw. I've not played it...yet. It's in beautiful shape cosmetically. Is there anything I should be cautious about beyond what one would normally look for when test-playing a horn?

[cmelodysax]

t-duck, just that (if you have one) it might be useful to take along a digital tuner with you, as intonation between the octaves can be (ahem !) a slight consideration.

And, if you already play alto and/or tenor, take along your mouthpiece(s) and reed(s), one may work well for you - if all the C-mel has is it's original mpc (and probably some very old reeds....) you may be disappointed in the sound (and taste :( )

Let us know how it goes - is it a Martin ? I've had a few, and play one now, I find that tenor mpcs match the natural Martin C-Mel 'big sound' very well. Do I see from a quick glance at your other postings that you have an R&C saxello ? Interesting.......

[t-duck]

CMelodysax, thanks so much for responding. I've got the tuner and the mouthpieces ready to go. Yes, it's a Martin.

I do have an R&C saxello. I love it. It was the first new horn I'd purchased in about 22 years (not counting the monique I bought about 10 years ago and promptly got rid of).

[spencer05]

I have my fathers C-Melody Conn chu=berry. This 1s a great sounding horn. I let one of th best Jazz Sax players in Dallas try it out. He asked if I would let him use it for some gigs. I could not believe the sound he produced and all of the comments {favorable) from the guys in his group.
I also have a Buffet SDA tenor, Selmer altos: markVI, Balanced Action, SSS, SS80 series II, and a conn naked lady.

[soybean]

Back to the intonation; I think that a Buescher, Martin or Conn C Melody is no more out of tune than an Alto or Tenor of the era. We just tend to not be able to adjust to the heavy resistance of the bore and expect it to be as free as a tenor. I find it almost like going from a Soprano to a Clarinet. I still stick by me assessment of it being more Alto like than like a Tenor. It may be only a step off from a tenor but it is still only a step and a half from an Alto.I agree. I had a 1920s Martin Handcraft tenor that had the same intonation "problems" as my Buescher C-mel. Your alto vs. tenor theory makes some sense. Of my two C-mels, the Holton is more alto-like and the Buescher is more tenor-like.

BTW, i have a really nice Jary Custom mouthpiece for C-mel on auction at Ebay closing in a few days.

[bfahle]

As a recent C mel "convert" (ok, I still play my alto, maybe I'm not religious enough), I want to chime in with a few points. First, I wonder what everyone is on about with this "modern mouthpieces aren't as stuffy" business. I really have no idea what that means. But maybe that's because like another poster, I am too "vintage" myself to know any better. Put me down as a fan of the C melody sound; it really is distinct from the other instruments. Also put me down as lazy when it comes to transposition, as I have stated before. Yes, we have computers for that, and when all sheet music is sold in digital form, that will be a blessed day. In the meantime I rely on outdated technology from the twenties. At the risk of starting a years-long feud, I do think, Grumps, that one should at least play one for a while before giving up on them wholly and actively knocking them as a beginner instrument (particularly in light of the new one being manufactured). As a final point, I do look forward to that blessed day when my name comes up on the Aquilasax list, but now I've gotten back on the topic of a whole other thread. Rats.

[littlewailer]

Blacktenor: One of the most famous jazzers to play C-Mel tenor was Frank "Tram" Trumbauer, who made many recordings in the 1920's with Bix Beiderbecke and others.

Go to www.redhotjazz.com (you'll need RealPlayer to listen, but that is a free download), search for "Trumbauer" and look through his recordings for TRUMBOLOGY. Amazing playing! DAVE

Dave,

I'd argue that Coleman Hawkins was the most famous jazzer to play a C-mel. Although he later converted most of his early work was done on C-mel.

[soybean]

I'd argue that Coleman Hawkins was the most famous jazzer to play a C-mel. Although he later converted most of his early work was done on C-mel.That's very interesting. Could you name some records or CDs that feature the Hawk on C-mel?

[soybean]

I wonder what everyone is on about with this "modern mouthpieces aren't as stuffy" business. I really have no idea what that means. Welcome here! Most mouthpieces since the 1960s are much more "open" with bigger tip openings for the reed to vibrate. Some modern mouthpieces also have a high baffle which helps with volume and projection. In the old days, players used heavier reeds too. I prefer to play the C-melody sax with a modern, baffled mouthpiece. It now sounds somewhere between a vintage 1920s horn and a modern sax.