LA Sax Chicago Jazz Series - My review

[-TH]

Well.. I ordered it last monday (from WWBW) and received the horn today! I just came back from our rehearsal place where I played my new horn for 2 hours. First, as you might know the horn is a work of art! A beautiful Earthtone matte-finish with nice engravings (the neck and keys are also engraved). It just a pleasure to look at...

Case: the CJS horn came with a nice BAM case (or bag). It's seems to be a cheaper version of the Trekking model which I already had. So no hard case. The bag is black and it feels sturdy and what's the most important thing: it get's the job done great (that is carrying your axe around places).

Ergonomics: Coming from a Selmer MarkVII the ergonomics of this horn feels like a hand in glove. I think most of the new horns have great ergonomics and this is no exception. Easy to play and the touch is quite light. The only thing that I noticed was the positioning of the left hand thumb rest. It's placed more left than my other (previous) horns. I'll get used to that, that's for sure.

Construction: I'm no sax-mechanic or expert on this one. The horn is quite heavy and it seems very durable and very sturdy. That's all I can say about the construction of the horn.

Sound: Well, that's the most important factor (for me)! The sound is dark, lush and full. High notes are fat-sounding as the low notes are. Very even scale. Intonation is spot-on! I just love to play this horn: finger a note and blow.. it's there! With my Selmer I had always to remember those problematic notes and adjust my embrouchure to get those to play in-tune. Now I can fully concentrate on music.. no distracting things anymore!

Here was a short review with my lousy english. I hope you got something from this. And I hope these samples speak more than thousand words ;-)

Body and Soul (played with CJS tenor, Florida Otto Link STM 6*, Java #3 reeds):
www.tpu.fi/~h2theino/cjs_body.mp3

Some bluesy noodling (played with CJS tenor, Florida Otto Link STM 6*, Java #3 reeds):
http://www.tpu.fi/~h2theino/cjd_blues1.mp3

A theme from a standard that I can't recall ;-) (played with CJS tenor, Early-Babbitt Otto Link STM 6*, Java #3 reeds):
http://www.tpu.fi/~h2theino/cjs_sound2.mp3

Overall this is absolutely the best tenor sax you can buy under $2000!! I don't miss my Selmer MkVII at all!

Thanks,
-TH

[-TH]

http://www.tpu.fi/~h2theino/cjs1.JPG

[gary]

TH - What I think would be very interesting is if you have any files of you playing with the Link on your Selmer, to compare with. Can you do that?

Glad you're happy with your new baby, BTW. :)

[Giganova]

Sounds and looks great TH -- congrats on your new purchase!

[-TH]

Gary: I can search for some older samples played on my Selmer (which is sold so I can't do a "fresh" comparisons). I have recorded a lot with the Selmer so you just wait and I'll get you some samples!

The thing that I really like is that the case, the B&S mouthpiece and the neck strap included are really great! It's so sad nowadays that when you purchase an expensive saxophone the manufacturer includes just a crappy mouthpiece and a crappy case with the sax... I don't know do they normally include a neck strap with a new sax?

-TH

[gary]

That would be cool, TH. I've got recordings of me on a Conn 10M, Yamaha "Z" and Keilwerth and they all sound in the same ballpark - but to ME they all sounded and felt different when I was playing them.

[Giganova]

It's so sad nowadays that when you purchase an expensive saxophone the manufacturer includes just a crappy mouthpiece and a crappy case with the sax...
Nor sure if this is true for all brands. Keilwerth throws in an amazing case, the Saxmover case, and their mouthpieces are known to be suprisingly usable as well :D

[Daktion]

that horn is sure a looker.... grats on your new axe

[The A Train]

Very nice TH! Since these German made saxes are no longer being built there can not be very many left to be had. Good choice, great price.

[Blackwolf42]

I really like your tone. Nonetheless, I'm happy for you and your new sax. :)

[Ruediger Kramer]

very good choice - congrats... (i´ve listened to your samples, they sound not bad)

[58tenor]

VERY nice sound. Thanks for the post. If you develop pad stickiness, it will go away by repeated cleaning with alcohol soaked Q-tips. Also, keep an eye on the lower stack adjusters and the low C# helper arm adjustment. On my horn those needed some tweaks in the initial month of playing. Since then,solid as a rock. The B&S is the way a sax should be.

[tonyg]

Nice sound clips TH. Does your new horn have the sand finish on the inside the bell or is it shiny gold lacquer?

[captain blowhard]

Dude, you sound awesome. Are you are pro?

[-TH]

Nice sound clips TH. Does your new horn have the sand finish on the inside the bell or is it shiny gold lacquer?

There's a shiny gold lacquer inside of the bell.

Dude, you sound awesome. Are you are pro?

Sax playing is my hobby although I gig almost like a pro ;-)

[-TH]

VERY nice sound. Thanks for the post. If you develop pad stickiness, it will go away by repeated cleaning with alcohol soaked Q-tips. Also, keep an eye on the lower stack adjusters and the low C# helper arm adjustment. On my horn those needed some tweaks in the initial month of playing. Since then,solid as a rock. The B&S is the way a sax should be.

Thanks for the tip! The G-pad is quite sticky and I've been cleaning it with alcohol soaked Q-tips as you adviced. Seems to be working!

[channelback]

TH: I'm glad to hear that you like your new horn. And you sound good playing it! I am an old (65) beginner who got a CJS about two weeks ago from WWBW. Mine also is a sand finish. It came with a good case, however. My son, who is an alto player and repair tech, was aghast when he heard that I had bought a CJS, primarily because he had never heard of it, I guess. He is coming to visit for my birthday soon. I told him to bring his tenor mouthpiece and that the horn will make him eat his words!

channelback

[Swingtone]

What a beauty? So how much did you pay for her, if you don't mind me asking? $1,995.99?

[-TH]

What a beauty? So how much did you pay for her, if you don't mind me asking? $1,995.99?

The beauty cost $1595

-TH

[Jerry K.]

Really nice playing and tone! If B&S were still alive and well they could have used your "Body & Soul" to show how lush these horns can sound! Can you believe how effortlessly these tenors subtone? I've got the same horn in Allora trim that I just love it. Since I now feel hugely inadequate (your fault) I've gotta ask, how long have you been playing? Study in college? If less that 5 years and you never had any formal training please don't reply!!!

[mayho]

Amen Jerry! I'm at 4 1/2 years and can't believe how bad I am at this.

[rispoli]

Mayho and Jerry K, if you really want to virtually erase your self esteem as saxophonist (just like I did!) try to listen to the tone this non-pro named Marc Vanden Eynden (sotw member Marc) gets by playing a Jody Jazz ESP on a Mark VI.
This discovery is courtesy of jody jazz web site where jody says "I was very impressed with the beautiful tone that he's getting. I was even more impressed when I found out that music is not his profession and that he had been playing saxophone for less than three years when he made these recordings." :shock:

http://www.jodyjazz.com/eynden.html

Tone-wise I think he gets very close to Branford.

Enjoy (or should I say suffer?)!

Congratulations Marc!

[-TH]

Really nice playing and tone! If B&S were still alive and well they could have used your "Body & Soul" to show how lush these horns can sound! Can you believe how effortlessly these tenors subtone? I've got the same horn in Allora trim that I just love it. Since I now feel hugely inadequate (your fault) I've gotta ask, how long have you been playing? Study in college? If less that 5 years and you never had any formal training please don't reply!!!

Well, thanks for your compliments! :D I've been playing the saxophone since 1996 (first alto then tenor since 1998). I'm completely self-taught saxophone player. Before I started to play the saxophone I played the clarinet for almost ten years which I studied formally with a teacher and I have few degrees on clarinet playing.

These horns subtone very well like Jerry said! Actually I think the horn probably has a minor leak somewhere (maybe due to the transportation of the horn). I just took the horn to my regular repairman for a check out. I guess when he has set-upped the horn completely it will subtone even better (if that's even possible! :D )

-TH

[gary]

A theme from a standard that I can't recall..http://www.tpu.fi/~h2theino/cjs_sound2.mp3
TH, FYI the tune is "It's All Right With Me".

[Markus Baldingen]

TH, FYI the tune is "It's All Right With Me".
... by Cole Porter ("Can Can" I believe?).
Really nice sound, TH :)

[Swingtone]

TH-

Just out of curiosity--and to confirm the place of origin of these horns--are the words "Germany" or "Made in Germany" stamped anywhere on the horn (or the case, or any of the literature that accompanied it).

Thanks! -Swingtone

[cacho_imechi]

Yes, Made in Germany is stamped under the Chicago Jazz Series logo on the bell, as well as under the serial number. Rest assured, it's a B&S horn.

[Swingtone]

Thanks, cacho_imechi,

So when did you acquire yours, if you don't mind me asking? Was it recently or a couple years ago? The reason I ask is because there seems to be some confusion over where these horns are actually made--confusion that is compounded by the fact that so many brands/company names are involved, and because the company name they are sold under--L.A. Sax--has most of its production facilities in Taiwan.

So it's great to have yet another verification on record (that at least some if not all these horns were made in Germany), but I am still curious about TH's as he just bought his within the past month. So TH, I'd still like to hear from you, if possible. :)

Also, is it definite that the Chicago Jazz series is no longer being produced (stopped when B&S stopped making saxes), and that the ones still for sale on music123.com (and possibly a few other places), are the only ones left?

Finally, does anyone know exactly when B&S ceased production of saxes?

[-TH]

th. So TH, I'd still like to hear from you, if possible. :)

Yes, the horn is stamped "Made in Germany". And the accessories, the strap and the mouthpiece, are stamped B&S (made in Germany). Hope that helps!

-TH

[Swingtone]

Awesome, thanks for the info. So if B&S has in fact ceased sax production, then it follows that the ones still for sale at 123.com are some of the only ones you can still get apart from any music stores that still have them in stock (i.e., they aren't making them anymore). Interesting....

[danyo]

nice sound man! and congrats on that beuty of a horn. i really like that finish.

[bluesax]

the following is an interview published on a german saxophone forum (saxwelt.de) with an official JA Musik GmbH (B&S) Manager made in 2005 concerning the future of B&S saxophone production in Germany:
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Es geht das Gerücht, das B&S die Produktion verlagert hat oder sogar die Vorrichtungen verkauft hat und nun B&S Saxophone in z.B. Polen, Taiwan, Rotchina, Russland oder Tschechien produziert werden?

Nein, die Ja Musik GmbH produziert auch 2005 weiterhin Saxophone in Markneukirchen. Eine Auslagerung unserer Markneukirchner Saxophonproduktion gab es nicht und wird es derzeit auch nicht geben. Dieses Gerücht hält sich hartnäckig. Ich hoffe es hiermit endlich ausräumen zu können. B&S Saxophone wurden und werden in Markneukirchen produziert.





Haben sie darüber nachgedacht die Produktion in das Ausland zu verlagern?

Wir haben das in Erwägung gezogen und es hat auch Anfragen in dieser Richtung gegeben. Es ist jedoch so, dass andere Hersteller vorzugsweise ihre eigenen Vorrichtungen und Teile nutzen wollen um Saxophone herzustellen. Damit kann aber eine Produktion die Ansprüche, die wir bei B&S an ein Saxophon haben, nicht umsetzen und auch den besonderen Klang der B&S Saxophone und das bei B&S erreichte Qualitätsniveau nicht erreichen. So könnten wir zwar Saxophone mit jedweder Gravur einkaufen, diese aber hätten nichts mehr mit den B&S Saxophonen gemein.





Es tauchen in USA Namen auf wie z.B. Allora, Chicago Jazz, Accent, Courtois ... Sind dies B&S Stencils?

Allora, Chicago Jazz, Accent, Courtois ... Diese Liste ist weiterzuführen mit Dave Guardala, B&S Medusa, B&S Series 2001, B&S Series 1000 oder einfach B&S. Unter all diesen Marken wurden oder werden noch immer in Markneukirchen Saxophone gefertigt.





Es sind also Stencils, also identische Modelle mit anderer Gravur?

Nein, jede der oben aufgeführten Marken sind eigenständige Modellreihen, die sich auch bautechnisch teils drastisch von einander unterscheiden.





Die Preise für die erstgenannten Modellreihen scheinen in den USA um bis zu 50% zu sinken. Werden diese Modelle im Ausland gefertigt und können deswegen so günstig angeboten werden?

Nein, unsere Saxophone werden in Deutschland in Markneukirchen gefertigt. Die Vorrichtungen stehen hier und wir sind in der Lage ausgehend von einem Stück Blech bis zur Endmontage ein Produkt Made in Germany anzubieten. Wir haben jedoch keinerlei Einfluss auf den Preise zu denen die Saxophone in den USA verkauft werden. Wie ihr Forumsmitglied anmerkt kann hier ein Qualitätsprodukt zu Schnäppchenpreisen erworben werden, wenn dies denn so ist.





Sie sagten in ihrer ersten Antwort, dass bis 2005 weiterhin Saxophone gefertigt werden. Was ist 2006?

Allora, Chicago Jazz, Accent, B&S Medusa werden bis zum Ende des Jahres 2005 produziert. Danach wird die Produktion dieser Modellreihen drastisch reduziert. Ab 2006 wird es weiterhin unser Schülermodell B&S Series 600 geben.





Hm... Das heißt B&S Saxophone der Profiklasse wird es zukünftig nicht mehr geben?

Erst einmal nur das was noch bei den Händlern auf Lager ist. Bei steigender Nachfrage sind wir aber weiterhin in der Lage Saxophone der semiprofessionellen und professionellen Serien produzieren zu können.
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[baylistenor]

Wish I knew German now...:shock: .My CJS Gold Lacquer is on the way(actually stuck in DERBY) Will post when I play-test:

[pth]

You can cut this text and paste it in the Google "translate" page. You will get a very rough translation. The bottom line is that B&S is stopping production of professional horns because they feel that to transfer production elsewhere would produce a horn that is not a B&S in terms of the unique sound of the current horns. They will only produce student horns because there is a larger market for them. They remain "poised" to produce pro horns in the future if the demand increases beyond the current level.

[baylistenor]

You can cut this text and paste it in the Google "translate" page. You will get a very rough translation. The bottom line is that B&S is stopping production of professional horns because they feel that to transfer production elsewhere would produce a horn that is not a B&S in terms of the unique sound of the current horns. They will only produce student horns because there is a larger market for them. They remain "poised" to produce pro horns in the future if the demand increases beyond the current level.

Thanks.Have tried to get every possible bit of info on these Horns.

[baylistenor]

Got my L.A Sax Chicago Jazz B&S Tenor today.
First impressions.
Keywork is really well placed.
Very,Very responsive.
Very centred intonation.
Top end great.
Great for Jazz.
Different sound than my super 80 series 2-
And the mouthpiece "in the box" is excellent could gig on it!
Would,nt mind an Alto as well.

[Flyguy]

I think that was one of the best renditions of Body & Soul i've ever heard. Can you send me a transcription?
Congrats on your purchase!

[rini]

Very good sound,-TH.
It's really sad if these horns are not available anymore.

[saxmanandrew]

I got my black nickel alto in december, aside from UPS dropping it on the way (thank god i have a good repairman neighbour) it is a great sax. It looks beautiful and sounds just as great, and the action on it is comparable to the Series III by selmer.

I used to play on an armstrong sax from the eighties and man oh man that was a crappy sax. The guy at the music store wouldnt even take it on trade in. I managed to get pretty good on the armstrong, but i simply started outplaying the horn. When i got an actual professional horn my playing took off. I am using a beechler metal 7 (vandoren java 2) and a Selmer D* (Vandoren ZZ) both sound great. Like I said, my playing has been kicked to a new level, and i can actually blow into this sax decently, i dont get tired from playing anymore. The intonation is spot on throughout the registers. Having problems though with sticky keys. Just to show how much more i can play with this horn the toughest peice i had ever played on my old one was Andante and Allegro by Chalieux. Since i got it i managed to play sonata no. 3 by handel, the Glauzonov concerto, the carnival of venice, and the maneuverability of it has allowed me to start on learning some jazz. I just got a transcription of blue rondo a la turk, and my neighbours complimented me on it after hearing it through an open window. Much to their shigrin i also started on overtones now that i have a sax that doesnt leak. And i just got a cornet (which i can hardly put up with, thank god for mutes).

But all in all this is a great sax that looks good and sounds better. Its the only one ive ever seen with engraving on the neck. And its black nickel, everyone pays attention to me now, great tone, great looking sax its way cool

Anyways if you can buy a CJS do it, theyre the best ive played on yet (other than maybe the series III) but they cant belt out the notes like this thing can. And they dont come in a black nickel finish. BTW i tried a Reference 54 before buying this horn and i think that its one of the worst saxophones ive ever played. And i played a jupiter artist series silver and they sound pretty good too, not nearly as good as my baby though.

Anyways, i have some recordings, and am just working on getting them up on the net. When i have them up i hope i can get some feedback

Over and Out

[Reiska]

Hi,

Is LA Sax Chicago Jazz the same instrument as B&S Chicago Jazz series? I have read somewhere that B&S Chicago Jazz cost over 5000 dollars when it was available?

[hgiles]

Reiska, the LA SAX Chicago Jazz is the B&S Chicago Jazz. I think MSRP on the horns were $5800-$6500 or some insane amount. Near the end you could get tenors for around $1600 and altos for $1300. Special finish ones were probably a bit higher.

Great horns, not worth $6500 -- but no horn is! Definitely 'worth' about the same as the other top saxophones out there though!

[Reiska]

Thank you for the confirmation hgiles. Pricing led me to suspect differences, but this settles it.

[Morry]

I just recently (2 weeks ago) ordered a CJS sandblast alto from WW&BW. At $1199, I just couldn't resist. It was marked "closeout", but should have been listed as a B-stock instrument. Much of the engraving was filled with grime. The neck was nearly brown in places. That was a shame. I thought I had found a real steal. I sent it back without playing, because I didn't want to get attached to it.

[Jolle]

I bought mine about a year ago, and wanted to sell it at first since I needed the money badly. Now that problem is solved, and my Chicago Jazz and I are getting really good friends.

Ergonomics are not the best for me. I have an old Selmer Signet I use as a backup, and that plays easier. But the difference is small. The mechanics are perfect, including the anti-stick-mechanism for the G#.

Tone is amazing full. I had some troubles in the beginning, but with the proper adjustment that was over. I play it with my BergLarsen 115/2/SMS stainless steel, so my sound is not that warm due to my choice of mouthpiece. But while trying out other mouthpieces, I noticed that this sax is capable of getting an incredible smooth sound as well. In fact, it seems as if the sax itself is very adaptive, and can be pushed in any direction with the proper equipment (mouthpiece and reed).

Intonation is perfect. Checked it with a tuning device, and every note is exact on the spot.

Most amazing is the attention I get, especially from other players. In Europe, this sax is absolutely not known. A lot of pro's come to check out my sax when they hear it. They all like the tone, but none of them can place it. Had some really nice chats due to that sax. The ladies didn't get it yet though... :mrgreen:

Overall conclusion : why on hell did I consider selling that beauty?

[Jolle]

Maybe nice to know : the keywork is basically a copy of the Selmer Super Action (is that the SA?) my teacher told me.

[Jolle]

hmm... After adjustment, it played well for a few weeks, but then I got more and more troubles with it. Went to the sax repair man, and it turned out some of the pads were swollen. One of them was clearly damaged (no wonder the water got in), the others weren't that clear.

He also found out that one of the toneholes was warbled, which might explain why I have more effort on this one with the lower notes than with my former one. I just thought my mouthpiece (BergLarsen steel 115/2/SMS) didn't fit that well on the sax, since I didn't have those problems with my classical one.

I'm going to pick it up tonight, keep you informed.

[Jolle]

It plays great again, although the lower end (especially the low D) is still not that comfortable to play. Partly due to the mouthpiece, with a classic mouthpiece I have less troubles.

We found two warbled toneholes, the rest of the sax looked fine. It plays very fluently now and the tone is great. Subtoning goes easy (also in the lower regions). My repair man isn't a great fan of the pads that are provided with the sax though, but it's difficult to replace them. The cups are not really standard measures here in Europe.

It won't be my last sax (still dreaming of the Keilwerth I played in the shop), but it's a great buy. It's not worth the initial 6500 dollars though, but 2500 dollars is a very fair price for that sax. 1600 in outlet is a great buy!

[Jolle]

I just recently (2 weeks ago) ordered a CJS sandblast alto from WW&BW. At $1199, I just couldn't resist. It was marked "closeout", but should have been listed as a B-stock instrument. Much of the engraving was filled with grime. The neck was nearly brown in places. That was a shame. I thought I had found a real steal. I sent it back without playing, because I didn't want to get attached to it.
I have such a sandblast, and the finish wears indeed off really quick. A shame, but I'm not that much concerned about the finish anyway. I keep it clean, but any sax that's used heavily, will wear off eventually...

[hgiles]

... We found two warbled toneholes, the rest of the sax looked fine. It plays very fluently now and the tone is great. Subtoning goes easy (also in the lower regions). My repair man isn't a great fan of the pads that are provided with the sax though, but it's difficult to replace them. The cups are not really standard measures here in Europe...


My repairman really likes the B&S saxes he says the pads are great and last forever, though they tend to stick a bit more than most.

I think these horns have a very unique tone. Some have reported they need a lot of frequent adjustment, but I haven't found that to be the case, but I don't play all that much either and I baby my horns.