Is "Cavalier" a Conn stencil?

[David Spiegelthal]

I have a 1920's (I think) vintage silver-plated "Cavalier" (Elkhart, Indiana) alto sax I'm overhauling --- plays well even with the older pads that came with it --- I'm wondering if this is a Conn stencil -- anybody know? It does NOT have rolled toneholes nor a tuneable neck, FYI

[Tom Fisher]

Does your alto have the usual Conn 'trademarks', i.e. the thin bridge between the body of the sax and the bell and also the tristar Mercedes Benz type guard on lower C? My Pan-Am tenor is a 1919 vintage, with these features. Does your instrument have pearls on the keys? Mine doesn't and I'm led to believe that this was a feature of several early Conn stencils.

[David Spiegelthal]

Tom wrote:
"Does your alto have the usual Conn 'trademarks', i.e. the thin bridge between the body of the sax and the bell and also the tristar Mercedes Benz type guard on lower C? My Pan-Am tenor is a 1919 vintage, with these features. Does your instrument have pearls on the keys? Mine doesn't and I'm led to believe that this was a feature of several early Conn stencils."

My Cavalier has a standard round-section bar (with a single bend at each end) for the body-to-bell brace, but it does have the "tristar Mercedes Benz-type" key guard, and yet it does have pearls on the keys. Hmmm....

[Tom Fisher]

David, you described the Conn body-to-bell brace exactly as I meant, but my engineering terms weren't as precise as yours. I described it as a thin bridge and meant that this pretty minimalistic feature is characteristic of Conn saxes, as is the Mercedes Benz key guard on lower C. I would have reckoned it to have been of Conn lineage from these features alone, but the clincher surely must be that Saxofoonwinkel currently lists a Cavalier alto as being made by Conn. Check it out.

Conn Cavalier, made in 1970, S/N 9742, rated as 'middle class', price: 1025 euros

http://www.saxshop.nl/used.htm

[Tom Fisher]

Once you start finding 'em you can't stop! Just found reference to Cavalier saxes being a Conn Stencil on another site, when I was looking for something else for myself!
http://www.justsaxes.com/links/stencils.html

[David Spiegelthal]

Tom,
Many thanks, you do good research! I was unable to find anything definite during my own search. But I take issue with Saxofoonwinkel's assessment of the Cavalier as dating from 1970 --- unless their alto is something completely different from mine, that is.....mine has all the design characteristics of a vintage 1920s sax, including age-related clues such as the degree of tarnish, age of the pads and pad adhesive, etc. Nonetheless, I'm enjoying its restoration and looking forward to playing my 'good-as-new' silver Cavalier in just a few days!

[Tom Fisher]

Thanks for your comments David. You know I thought the same as you regarding 1970 production date. I wonder if it's a transcription error - i.e. that the handwritten date was 1920 and the data input person mistook it for 1970? Didn't Conn also stop making stencils before 1970??

[David Spiegelthal]

Tom,
Another possibility is that the "70's-vintage" Cavalier at Saxofoonwinkel is a Chinese or Taiwanese copy of a Conn, completely unrelated to my (definitely old) Cavalier alto. Anyway, I finished the overhaul of mine and it plays great! Nice fat sound, good intonation up and down --- now once I figure out fingerings for high F# and G that don't need the modern front-F (or is it 'bis') key, I'll be in business!

[werkinsnake]

The Caviliers were CONN stencils. All CONN stencils lacked rolled Tone Holes. I've seen the Caviliers sell up to $1000 on ebay.

[David Spiegelthal]

Restoration of the (1920's?) Cavalier alto (the alleged Conn stencil) is complete, and I adapted and installed a 'bis' key/front F from a junker King alto to modernize its keywork. Results are even better than I had hoped --- intonation is excellent in all registers, and the horn is LOUD! The sound is not as refined and smooth as my other alto (a 1950's-vintage Couesnon 'Monopole') but the Cavalier is powerful, and will be a terrific jazz and rock'n'roll horn. Feels good in the hands, too --- a nice, simple, rugged axe. Glad I bought it!

[spiderjames]

I have a cavalier tenor that is like a conn transitional. Bell keys on the left side. Plays great. Here's a fingering for high F, F# and G that works on my tenor. For f I play high A and open the f palm key with my third finger. To reach F# add the side Bb, or the low F. If its flat open the G# key with the Bb. For G its high A, palm F, side Bb, low F, and Low Eb all together. Not the easiest fingerings to reach. I tried some other but these are the only ones that would work for me on this horn. You can also hit alt. E by fingering G#and cocking open th f palm key (uncomfortable)

[David Spiegelthal]

spiderjames, thanks for the fingerings --- I'll try them out. Fortunately with the 'aftermarket' bis key and front F I installed, I can now use the regular fingerings for those notes.
DS

[spiderjames]

Where did you get your aftermarket front F? Is it available for tenor? I have been waiting for a donor sax to show up on ebay cheap but have yet to see one that will work.

[David Spiegelthal]

Spiderjames,
I took my 'front-F' and 'bis key' parts from an old H.N White American Standard alto which unfortunately had just about every screw rusted solid and was therefore unsuitable for restoration. I had to do a fair bit of modification to the parts to adopt them to my Cavalier (Conn).
I happen to have parts left over from my old Couf Superba II (Keilwerth) tenor, perhaps the 'front F' from it might be adapted to work on your tenor? I'd have to (a) find the parts and (b) see your horn to know for sure.