Can anyone tell me what this is???

[lisag9743]

Anyone out there ever heard of a SuperTone Bandmaster??? Serial #5519. I think it is a Beuscher stencil-but not sure-if anyone has any info, please advise. Have looked at several websites, but not having much success in pinpointing what it is or how old.
Thanks, lisag

[Gregg W. Jackson]

Did you look at the Woodwind.org website (AKA Sneezy.org)? It has a page of stencil information (http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/HasAnyoneHeard.html). That page lists a "Supertone" brand that was sold by Sears and possibly made by Blessing or H.N. White.

[cmelodysax]

Malcolm Dickinson's internet list of sax stencils shows 'Supertone Professional' as a Martin stencil - are the tone holes bevelled ? (the tops should slope in towards the hole). Regards, Alan.

[lisag9743]

Thankyou both so much for your replies-yes I did check the woodwind.org site-isn't that just for clarinets though?? And as for bevelled toneholes-no it does not have them. The reason that I think that it might be a Beuscher stencil is because of a stencil site I came across which showed pictures of different characteristics of various stencil horns and the horn I have matched 3 out of 9 of them. It said that if the horn in question matched at least 2 of the characteristics then it was most likely made by the manufacturer named, which was Beuscher. So, I guess I'm still as confused as ever. Although, it really doesn't matter in the long run, the horn looks great, plays awesome and I love it so that's really all that counts anyway!!! :D

[cmelodysax]

I totally agree with you, if the horn is that good, what else matters. It's usually the octave mechanism that finally confirms which manufacturer. I have a (Lyon & Healy) Buescher stencil, and it too sounds as good as anything I've ever played.

Regards, Alan.

[Lomar Manx]

What is Malcolm Dinkinsons URL? Do you know of any otther stencil lists?

[cmelodysax]

It's at http://mdickinson.com/music/stencil_names.htm

-also look at http://www.saxpics.com/infonmisc/stencils.htm.

If you also go to http://www.cybersax.com/QA/Q&A_Topic_Directory.html

-and scroll down to the 'Stencil Saxophones' link - it's past Keilwerth Stencils - for some more useful Q & A on stencils.

Regards, Alan.

[cmelodysax]

Lisag - I've just seen a SuperTone Bandmaster alto on ebay, 2540753021 - and it is almost certainly a Conn stencil, with the 'mercedes' low C guard.
Regards, Alan.

[lisag9743]

Hey Alan,
I greatly appreciate you turning me on to that alto on ebay. My horn looks pretty much the same as that one-although mine is a tenor and mine just says Supertone Bandmaster without the "Made in Elkhart, Ind."
What exactly do u mean by the 'Mercedes' low C key guard?? And wasn't Elkhart, Ind. where Buescher made their horns?? I talked to Malcolm Dickinson and he thought that from how I described my horn that it sounded like a Beuscher. But, he could be wrong I suppose. Hmmmm, the mystery continues. I just wish there was some way I could find out for sure. Maybe it just doesn't really matter tho. I guess I just find it interesting from a vintage standpoint, and I would like to be able to tell other people for sure what it is. Keep me posted if u come across anything else. Thanks again for your help.
lisag

[cmelodysax]

Lisag - If you look at all of the 'guards' over the pads down around the bell, you'll notice that most of them are in (sort of) a 'T' shape - i.e the joins are at right angles - 90 degrees.
But if you look at the 'Low C' keyguard on the bend, Conn was (I think ) the only manufacturer to make that particular guard in the shape of an inverted 'Y' - the Mercedes-Benz car badge.
It can be confusing with stencils - I have a Lyon & Healy that I've always thought to be a Buescher, but now it's on the stand next to a Martin I'm fixing up I'm not so sure.....could indeed be a Martin. by the look of the octave mechanism...hrmmmm... Regards, Alan.

P.S. Elkhart, Indiana was where Conn, Martin, Buescher (and even King, I think, certainly is now, as UMI) and most others all had their factories. I bet they frequently 'borrowed' employees and designs from each other !
Bit like an early 'Silicon Valley', but a 'Musical' one !!

PPS - Oops, I nearly forgot that Selmer also had an assembly plant there...
- see http://www.saxophone.org/ishp_backup/elkhart.html for an amusing tale of a man on a pigrimage...

[lisag9743]

Hi Alan,

I looked in the cybersax link you gave me and read that on Buescher's the serial # would most often be engraved in an arc formation (which my horn does have) whereas on a Conn the numbers were in a straight line and preceded by a letter. Also, my horn does NOT have the mercedes keyguard like that alto on ebay does. The more I find out, I am almost certain that it is in fact a Buescher. There are so many similarities.
lisag

[cmelodysax]

LisaG - Great, looks like you've got it 'pinned down'. Remember, just like today, any company that wanted stencils produced for them would probably have got quotes from more than one manufacturer (after all, most of them were in Elkhart) - and picked the cheapest at the time.

So (in theory) that alto could have been made by Conn, a tenor by Buescher, and a C-Melody by Martin, but all bearing the same name of 'Supertone Bandmaster' and (e.g.) all sold by someone like Sears over a period of time...........

Great, isn't it ! Regards, ALan.

[Blue]

Since you guys are helping figure out what kind of sax it is, I've got a blue buescher, serial 616881. My local repairman told me that it wasn't originally blue, it basically has autobody paint on it. Can you guys figure out if it's worth the $200 I spent on it?

Thanks :)

[Blue]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the keys on the bell are on my left when I play it, if that makes any difference.

[spiderjames]

LisaG,
Some other tips on identifying a stencil;
look at the key posts on the high E or C side key also the low C# posts. If they have tiny little set screws in them in its definitely a Conn even if it doesn't have the mercedes keyguard. Also look at the alt F# key. Most buescher (not all) have a small F# that key runs perpendicular to the body like martins but martins have the beveled tone holes. hope this helps a little. Love those stencils; pro saxes in beginner band clothing.

[cmelodysax]

Spiderjames - telling Buescher and Martin stencils apart (a lot of Martin stencils didn't have the bevelled toneholes) can be a real nightmare. Sometimes the shape of the cock-comb/fillet on the base of the sax is a little help, they vary slightly between those manufacturers.

I sometimes think there was a lot of trade-off between those two factories in the 20's & 30's, especilly with horns marked 'Lyon and Healy'.

But I was really writing to say 'ssshhhh !'

Both you and I know how good stencils can be, but don't say too much or prices will rise on ebay.... Look what's happened to Buescher TH&C models.

Regards, ALan.