Super Jazz VI neck

[Mark R]

I just received one of the new Super Jazz VI necks made for P. Mauriat. I have a dark lacquer one (same finish as my PMXT-66R). The difference I find between the SJVI and the original neck is it makes me feel like I've now got 2 great horns! One is a MKVI...but one that plays better in tune than most old MKVI's and with the original neck it gives me a great vintage sax sound....makes me feel like I am playing a wonderful old King, Martin or Conn...but with much better ergonomics and of course excellent intonation....and more consistent and easier altissimo than I've ever had with older vintage American horns.

The SJVI feels like it has a more compact, focused air flow...yet to me it doesn't really make me louder...it makes me sound and feel more like I am playing on a MKVI with a little more texture in the tone than the original neck....a taste more edge and less low eq. It really does give me that MKVI vibe. And it is a difference not to be found in changing mouthpieces, it really has to do with the relationship of the horn since it is a different neck going on the body tube. I was very please to find that the neck tenon fit snug and perfectly. So to sum it up when a player asks...of course younger players may not have a reference of what a MKVI plays like I would use a player analogy. With the original neck it can give you that fat , a bit spread Dexter Gordon tone and with the SJVI it will take you more into a Coltrane vein. My first thought when I played on the SJVI is it reminded me of Bob Bergs sound....interesting edge , yet still a full tone, great for playing the more modern styles of stuff.

[Saxland]

Are these necks made by P. Mauriat?

[draper]

Yes, they're on their website: http://www.pmauriatmusic.com/accesories.htm

I was already wondering something, and your report could vibe with this. Is the Nickel Silver (PMXT-60 NS) really just the same horn as the 66R minus F# key, with the Super Jazz VI neck?

[tomsch]

Like Mark I too received my Super Jazz VI neck. I have a non-RTL tenor and the new neck made a significant difference to the resistance and overall sound. The core of the P Mauriat sound remains but the new neck is more free-blowing, just slightly brighter, more resonant, and fixes one minor complaint I had; the softness in the palm keys. Tuning is also near perfect.

So far this is a nice step forward for my horn especially given that I prefer a free-blowing, low resistant horn. I'll post more after I have time to play it in a gig situation.

[Mark R]

Draper, Even though it is listed on the site. P. Mauriat does not make the PMXT-60NS without the high F#. I tried one of these first before going with the PMXT-66R. It may very well be the same bodytube and neck but since it is made out of an entirely different material the response was quite different. For me personally I found it to have less resonance and vibration and it felt sort of constricting for me. I had gotten it special order from Junkdude. Dave cheerfully would have been willing to do an exchange or refund but told me I should try the Custom Class series horn. I was expecting to try the PMXT-66R, just to give it a shot thinking I would probably return it. WRONG!! For me it played very different from the nickel silver model and I love it. So taking the long road to answer your original question. AFAIK P. Mauriat no longer makes the model without the high F#. The NS model from what I could recall was very similar in terms of key mechanisms, body tube, neck but the way it played gave me very different results compared to the Custom Class (dark lacquered brass) model horn. I think the NS model would probably be a great classical horn. I am a rockin', blues, funkster so I have no need for a classical horn.

[davidanthony411]

ok-sounds good...who has these at the best price ...since i have $ left over because i bought a great horn (66r) at a grat price..


D

[Mark R]

David, I bought my neck from Tim at SaxAlley.com. I don't know if anyone else out there is stocking them yet. I got it quick too! I think I ordered it like last Thursday and it was here on Monday. Compared to other aftermarket necks I think the price is decent around $250 including shipping. I've played on it a bit more later on today. I find it to make the horn play with more definition and sharpness (not intonation) yet still has that great PM tone. I also find myself liking it more now that I have put a little more time in with it. A taste more punch and sass to it compared to the original neck.

Like I had stated to start with the new neck takes the horn more into that MKVI feel and sound....makes me think of Pete Christlieb and when I put the original neck on it gives me more of a say Dexter Gordon tone color.

[Keith Ridenhour]

Hmmm, just when I was thought I was through spending money?? K

[BigDaddyJ]

Same thing I was thinking K. I'm going to have to head out to Sax Alley next week and try a few of these necks.

later

Joel

[sinjarah]

I played one last night on my 202,000 Mk VI tenor. It belonged to a fellow player on a gig, and we compared it to my Oleg. The necks appear to be identical in construction, sound, and response. The differences appear to be only the engraving and the price.

[rispoli]

Anybody tried the silver version?

[smoothjazztenor]

Hi,

I own a PMST66 tenor with the stock neck. After reading this post, I realise that I may want to sell away the stock neck in order to finance my purchase of the Super VI neck.

I'm looking for a better response. I feel the stock neck is kind of resistant. I'm using a Guardala King mouthpiece. I play contemporary jazz.

Do you think it's wise to sell away the stock neck, since I won't be needing 2 necks?

Advice will be appreciated.

[deiter1977]

It may be unwise to sell your stock neck. If you ever want to see your PM, it will probably be a detriment to potential buyers if the original neck is not included in the sale. For the current sale of a saxophone on SOTW, see this thread in the Marketplace: http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36467.

Hope this helps!

[Mark R]

1. Probably not going to be much of a market for a stock P. Mauriat neck since they are supplied with every P. Mauriat sax.

2. Just like having more than one different mouthpiece I like having both necks depending on what kind of gig I am playing. How many of us have sold a mouthpiece after finding another we like to only regret letting go of it later?

3. As much as I like the Super Jazz VI neck I recently got a great new mouthpiece from Saxscape.com and I like the way it responds and plays better with the original neck.......in fact if I was forced to choose between the necks personally I would stick with the original over the Super Jazz VI.....after all it is the first neck I played with the P. Mauriat PMXT-66R that convinced me to keep the horn.

[GAS_Wyo]

3. As much as I like the Super Jazz VI neck I recently got a great new mouthpiece from Saxscape.com and I like the way it responds and plays better with the original neck.......in fact if I was forced to choose between the necks personally I would stick with the original over the Super Jazz VI.....after all it is the first neck I played with the P. Mauriat PMXT-66R that convinced me to keep the horn.
Mark,
Can you record your new mouthpiece with both necks and post them or send me a PM? I'm really wanting to try one of these for both alto and tenor.

[davidanthony411]

just back from a lunchtime blowing session out in the parking lot at work...with my new neck

it is what has been missing on an otherwise great horn..although i was used to the stock neck, as soon as i put the new neck on the "P" it really started to sing...notes were easier to play..and faster too...alt became so much easier, felt like it was all part of the legitimate range..tone wise, a little less "dark", but still with that amazing "P" sound...low end just as juicy, in fact it made the low end much cleaner..and i need to say again that the note were so much easier to execute...just flys off my fingers now, wheras the stock neck took a little more thought for each note..am i making myself clear here??

anyway...im a happy boy now..
off to Cabo San Lucas for a gig next week..see ya'
David

[rispoli]

I received my "Super VI" neck today. It looks damn cheap (un-engraved, differently from what is shown on the P.Maurit web site) but does its job well. I prefer it to the stock neck by a narrow margin and as such I am not sure I'll keep it, since it must justify an investment of 237$ (especially considering the fact that I have my 66R on sale here in the Marketplece...).
Like David noticed, notes are generally easier to play but not all of them (the lowest 3 are easier and fuller with the stock neck).
I am quite underwhelmed instead by the difference in tone, which I find indeed minimal and on the brighter side. I totally disagree that it feels like having another sax. Not even sure it makes it less resistant either. The bottom register seems more booming (one of the big strenghts of this model) with the stock neck.
I tested for one hour without tuner, so intonation note by note is still to be tested. Middle D feels definitely better.
If you like the sound of you Mauriat with the stock neck in my opinion you don't need to worry: it won't change it much. Only question: will the change be enough for you to justify the extra 237$??

[davidanthony411]

just goes to show that we are all different when it comes to the sax..(thats a good thing) anyway, yesterday i gave the new neck a three hour play against the stock neck..this only reenforced my first post...it makes the P wail!..its a little brighter, but for me thats a good thing, as i found the stock neck to be just a little too spread for my tastes, although it still has a great low end-the real improvement is in the palm keys, no comparison! Also, as i have stated, the horn plays much faster-cleaner, with a great tone..and i was able to finally get a high E (alt), as my usual highest note has been a D...im my view well worth the extra bread...thats about it
-play on brothas and sistas
David

[rispoli]

I also played it again today, this time with a tuner. The Super VI neck has better intonation than the stock neck. I can get any note easily in tune except mid C# (which anyways I have problem with in any horn...). I can get about the same with the stock neck but with more work and generally putting quite more air. I am not good in altissimo yet, hence I can't say anything regarding that.
I stand with what I stated before: if I had the chance to choose between the two neck I'd surely take the Super VI but the tone of the sax does not change much, only a little brighter (and in this sax this can be easily acceptable). Clear advantages in palying soft, instead.

If you plan to get it in order to make your sax easier blowing it is likely to be a worthy investment. If you want to get it in order to achieve a very different sound, may be not.

[rispoli]

Last revision (I promise!): listening to my recordings I realized that the sound difference is quite more than I perceived while playing.
So it is now for me a no brainer to recommend this neck because:

1. The sax blows now quite more free
2. Adds some (needed, in my opinion) brightness taking more on the Selmer side (however make no mistake, it will sound very different from a Mark VI)
2. Intonation is better

Even if you are afraid of givin' up to a bit of darkness, the core-sound of the Mauriat remains there. So you may want to give it a try anyways. Saxalley offers 7 days to try it out, which is a great thing because after 2-3 days I was not persuaded it was a worthy upgrade.

[Tryptykon]

I played one last night on my 202,000 Mk VI tenor. It belonged to a fellow player on a gig, and we compared it to my Oleg. The necks appear to be identical in construction, sound, and response. The differences appear to be only the engraving and the price.

This neck fit in a Mk VI neck receiver ?

Aren't the P.Mauriats larger bore saxophones ?

Where does this line sit bore-wise ?

I've read, here, comparisons to Martins or Conns, but ..

[rispoli]

This neck fit in a Mk VI neck receiver ?

Aren't the P.Mauriats larger bore saxophones ?

Where does this line sit bore-wise ?

I've read, here, comparisons to Martins or Conns, but ..

It does fit my 151K Mark VI quite well, only a bit loose. Intonation is not bad but not as spot on as is on the Mauriat tenors it is designed for and, moreover, it definitely alters the tone. On my Mark VI I prefer by far a no-name neck I bought on Ebay and posted about it in the necks section.

Back to the Mauriat, I find the comparison to Martins and Conns very appropriate. If you want something that gets close to the Selmer sound you should look elsewhere (i.e. B&S), at least IMHO.

[smoothjazztenor]

Hi Guys

I need help here. I just bought a Super Jazz VI neck for my vintage-lacquer PMST66 tenor.

I received it today BUT couldn't play it yet as the octave key needs adjustments for it to close/open properly.

I'm suprised however, that the angle of the neck is SIMILAR to that of my stock neck. Is this so? I thought the Super Jazz VI is supposed to have a lowered angle? If not, how can a different sound/feel be possible?

Pls help. I will post again after I get the chance to play it...

[rispoli]

My Super VI neck is marked as such and has a different angle, wider from the horizontal plane if you put is side by side with the stock neck of my 66R.
If it is marked "Super VI" but the angle is the same as the stock neck I would call your reseller, there must be something wrong.

[Tryptykon]

It does fit my 151K Mark VI quite well, only a bit loose. Intonation is not bad but not as spot on as is on the Mauriat tenors it is designed for and, moreover, it definitely alters the tone. On my Mark VI I prefer by far a no-name neck I bought on Ebay and posted about it in the necks section.

Back to the Mauriat, I find the comparison to Martins and Conns very appropriate. If you want something that gets close to the Selmer sound you should look elsewhere (i.e. B&S), at least IMHO.

This is where I am confused.

The Martins and Conns have larger bores than VIs

I don't understand why the Mauriat neck would be loose in a MK VI neck receiver,
when the Mauriats are supposed to be more spread than a Selmer.

sound comparisons, slightly, aside, where does the Mauriat sit ?

Is it larger bore than Selmer but smaller than King Conn Martins, or ?

[Tryptykon]

Rispoli, I took a quick at your profile :
Equipment:
B&S 2001 Tenor, Buescher Aristocrat Big B tenor, The Martin tenor, Mark VI tenor

---------------
So, where does the Mauriat sit within the makes of tenors you have ?

Re: the Jazz neck.

I'm trying to figure out if I can use the Jazz neck in a tenor of mine.

It seems if your Jazz neck dropped into the VI you have and was loose it
would be very loose in the other tenors you have.

My guess is: Martin, Buescher, B&S,Selmer in order of bore sizes ?

I P.M.'d Mark R., yesterday, but no response, yet.

[rispoli]

I have to update my profile..
I now have a Mark VI, B&S 2001, Mauriat 66R and a The Martin sold to another sotw member but still in my home. Soundwise it definitely resemble the Martin, quite less the Buescher (never got to play them side by side since the Big B was sold quite before) and even less the other 2 which I find sound quite alike.
For the bore size, the Martin seems to have the largest one but I can't confirm this since I am currently away from home. The B&S and the Mark VI have the same neck diameter, perfectly exchangeable. The B&S with the selmer neck gets brighter.
The Super VI neck was fitting great into the B&S but the octave lever would have required a modification in order to lift the octave key. Never tried it on The Martin (being sold I am afraid to take it out from the box for fear of seller remorse...). On the Mark VI was loose but working. Would not stay in place but would not even rotate freely, something in between.
Aesthetics a part, it is not a terrific match for a Mark VI. If you can't get it to play with your Mauriat I believe you should return it.

[GAS_Wyo]

I just ordered 2 of these necks yesterday - for alto and tenor. I'll try to post my impressions early next week. Sax Alley expects another shipment of necks on Wed or Thurs! Can't wait!!!

[Mark R]

Here's my take on the cake concerning the differences with the stock and the Super Jazz VI neck. As always your mileage may vary!

I honestly can't notice much difference in the outward appearance with exception that the SJVI neck has the engraving on the front and also the finish is a darker, almost more green tint to the finish. I am not blind but I do wear progressive lenses. I don't notice any angle difference nor looking at either end of the neck openings nor do I find any sizing/bore difference. I think the differences may lie between the interior curve/bore and the octave key pip. Just looking at it with my naked and lensed eyes I can't tell a difference...anymore than I can when I look at 2 of the same mouthpieces that look exactly the same but can play so different.

I recently acquired a Guardala Artist Black Nickel tenor. The neck tenon size is the same between it and the P Mauriat horn yet the Guardala has much more if a VI vibe to it. Also the Guardala sounds pretty good with the PM neck but the Guardala neck sounded more constricted and edgy on the P Mauriat horn.

As far as bores are concerned it feels to me like the Guardala plays with a bit more resistance and doesn't feel as open to me as the P Mauriat....this could in part be due to the Black Nickel plating....especially since the plating is on both the inside/interior and the outside and may affect the actual air column. I also own a B&S Codera that is gold lacquer and it also is less resistant compared with the Black Nickel Guardla....they look to share the same neck with 1 stamped on them....however the B&S Codera neck is slightly smaller than the Guardala.

So go figure.....both B&S made horns but the necks don't fit...and an entirely different horn made in Asia the neck from it interchanges and fits like a glove with the Guardala. I really don't know if the bore differences are all that different between a Guardala and a P. Mauriat....again I think the bore sizing may have been affected/reduced some due to the plating both the inside and outside of the horn.....then again the antique finish on the P. Mauriat appears to be both inside and outside but of course that finish has different texture compared to a plating....also I believe when something is plated, most times there has to be first either a silver or nickel silver plating for the colored or gold plating can bind to the brass.....so the Guardala tenor probably has more extra material on top of the brass than the P. Mauriat....before we get into any type of debate as to what the actual bore size is.

Now more on bore.....Even amongst MKVI's I challenge you to try the neck from one MKVI on another MKVI....even in a close serial # range and I would be surprised if they both fit the same. I am not sure that tenon size determines bore size since the bore includes the actual sizing inside the body tube, size of the octave key pips/holes...size of tone holes.....size of bell/bow connection. It is the luck of the draw if a different or aftermarket neck fits perfectly on a horn of a different make. I know in the past I have purchased aftermarket necks intended/designed specifically for a MKVI, a Masterpiece and a Ponzol. Both had to be expanded for a proper fit from a tech on my MKVI. So neck receiver/tenons sometimes like in the case of my Guardala and P. Mauriat fit each other perfectly. If the tenon is off a small bit I don't know if the bore size has anything to do with it or not. I'll bet the tenon size of my MKVI was larger than my old Martin...even though the Martin was considered a larger bore horn.

Hope this helps some with those wanting to know if a P M neck works on their respective instruments. The P M neck did make the Guardala play a little smoother, sweeter but it was a slight nuance thing, not a major change that could probably be heard by someone else....just felt a little different...which of course is important too. Unless the original neck to either a MKVI or Guardala isn't playing well I don't believe that the PM SJVI would make enough difference to replace the original neck......now if I could try a different material like say a solid silver P M neck...that might make a more diverse change in tone production.:?

[Mark R]

I have a little more information tonight. I went to New Orleans and tried a Selmer Solid Silver Thin Walled (made in USA) neck on both my Guardala and PM. The seller had been using it on a Selmer SA80II. I found it to fit very well on both my Guardala and PMauriat tenors. It was not quite as snug and was just a taste loose compared to my PM and Guardala necks, but not as loose as the B&S Codera neck...it needs a very small amount of expansion in the tenon to be as snug as the PM and Guardalas....realize both those necks are very tight...almost not even needing for the neck screw to be turned.

So my guess is that a PMauriat neck will fit a Selmer..but probably not absolutly perfect.

I also did a closer inspection to see if I could find any other physical differences between the stock PM and the Super Jazz VI necks and I found a couple. This first part I could be wrong due to my eyes not being 20/20. it seems when I look side by side at the area where it is curving from the top to the tenon it seems like the SJVI neck might be just a little higher arc and thinner in that area. Now for a fact I can tell the hole in the octave key pip is smaller on the SJVI vs the stock...whether there is an entirely different pip inside and out I can't see that far into the tube to tell. The pip itself looks to be the same style and size ...but the stock one's hole is certainly larger.

Makes sense why I find the SJVI to have a little more resistence. Hope this helps solve some of the mystery concerning the P M necks. Also as a side note I bought the Solid Silver Selmer neck....for my PM tenor it made it have a little brighter less spread, less vintagey more modern sound.

On the Guardala I noticed it had a little more focus and better, fatter low end...nicer ballad tone too. Intonation was good but since I am still dialing in on the Guardala I don't have my full handle on it's intonation....the G3 seemed a little flat..had to lip it up a taste but from the bell keys to the palm keys the intonation felt good...just not quite as precise as the Guardala neck...makes sense to me since the Guardala neck is the one that came with and was made for the horn and the Selmer neck is actually intended for a Selmer....so with this being the consideration I think it is darn close.

[Mark R]

A slight bit off topic yet related I just read on the side of the box the Selmer Solid silver thin walled neck came it is this:
99.9% Pure Silver
Made in the USA

and found the following information on it at WWBW

More Info

Sterling necks fit only Selmer Paris Series II and Selmer USA tenor saxophones.

[smoothjazztenor]

Mark,

I felt that the Super Jazz VI neck is more resistant on the lowest 3 notes, as compared to the stock neck.

I'm playing a PMST66.

Any comments?

[smoothjazztenor]

Hi all,

Another question:
How do you guys adjust your horns to fit the new necks?
Do you bend the octave rod (on the horn)? OR do you adjust the octave lever (on the neck)?

I tried to do the latter...but the lever is kind of stiff.

Repair experts...any comments here? Thanks!

[rispoli]

Mark,

I felt that the Super Jazz VI neck is more resistant on the lowest 3 notes, as compared to the stock neck.


My same initial impression, although the more I play it, the more things ar getting better. I now seldom put on the stock neck.

Perhaps is the unavoidable trade off for the better efficiency of this neck in the mid and high registers (just my guess).

[Keith Ridenhour]

I trialed a Super Jazz neck for about an hour and sent it back. I need response and resonance and the neck did alter my tone slightly but it didn't "fix" what I wanted to change in my core tone and it was way too soft. Just my take. I wanted more of a vintage "couf" tone or a fat Mk 6 but this neck took away too much body to my tone. K

[Randall]

Rispoli,
how did you like the PM neck on your B&S?
I am thinking of recommending a friend try a PM neck on his B&S....

[GAS_Wyo]

I just received both the alto and tenor SJVI necks.

Alto
This is the horn I thought I'd never own! It's better than a MkVI to me!!! As pointed out above, it's a little bit brighter, more focused and the altissimo/palm keys just sound fuller and respond better. Of the two, this will be my main neck.

Tenor
Stay tuned...Everyone in the house was ready to go to bed before I could put the alto down! :D

[rispoli]

Unfortunately I could not try entirely since it would need a modification in the receiver (is it called this way?) to have the octave key opened. So from high A I could not test it.
Below that it did not feel as much as an improvement as is on the 66 for which it is designed. It is also just a bit loose: the 2 modifications are surely easy to do by any repairman.
I have on my way a Selmer III goldbrass, this quite possibly may be a better match.

[bradshawm]

I had Tim Glesman send me a couple of the new necks when he returned my Nickel Silver Tenor last week after performing a New Horn set-up on it. He sent a Nickel Silver neck and a lacquer one. Both of the necks make a great improvement in the sound, but the lacquer one is by far the best. It is like a different horn. The old neck gave it a very sweet sound which I really like, but the SJ VI gives it more volume and depth. It really is like having two different horns.

[GAS_Wyo]

I forgot about this thread...thanks bradshawm!

The SJVI on my 66R makes the horn sound a little brighter, more focused and makes the low notes a little harder to sound. However the highs (G2 on up) sound much better than with the stock neck. I'm sold on both SJVI necks. Now, I just have to pay for them! :D

[backer]

I recently had a chance to try a friend's Super Jazz VI neck on my Mark VI tenor. I was really impressed, given the relatively poor experience I have had with alternate necks (other Mark VI necks and a Mark VII neck). The intonation was still very good, and the tone was very clear. The neck especially responded well from around G2 through the palm keys. It had a slightly darker sound than the original. The response was very even as well... I would certainly consider it as an alternate neck.

He had 66R and 76 tenors. I found them to be very impressive. Both had Super Jazz VI necks but with very different tenon sizes, prohibiting a swap. The 66R was a much more lively horn but the 76 seemed to have much better intonation (the 66R had a few tendencies that stuck out, but they were not too serious and likely could have been remedied by adjusting key height and/or competent playing), more tempered harmonics and a very pretty tonal character, still fairly bright and plenty resonant. Both horns had a very easy blowing low end, very snappy action and well set-up by the dealer.

<rant>Though they are superficial, I'm no fan of the marketing cruft on the bell and some of the choices of insignia around the horn. They even have a little French flag sticking out of the case! I know this is all a matter of taste (i.e. good or bad ... kidding), but these "vintage" finishes I'm seeing (Selmers too) reek of pre-faded jeans.</rant>

On the other hand, I find the bright and sharp brass engraving lines shining through the dark finish to be a very nice effect. I just have to get with the times and go with the flow! :monkey:

Excuse the diversion, back to the original topic...

[JuliusTole]

Man, so far I love the Super VI neck on my 66R. Got it today and will really get to spend some time with the new neck tonight. Found it had more presence and was louder so far. Got an alto custom solid sterling silver neck too, which I need to get fitted first.

[Tin Man]

I'm very interested in getting the Super Jazz neck for my 67R but i need to know a raw cost of how much the neck will be and if its really worth the couple hundred of dollars.

[GAS_Wyo]

In my humble opinion...the SJVI neck on the alto made more difference than on the tenor. It really opened up the sound a noticable amount. It made the horn freer-blowing. It didn't respond as well in the low notes, but was still awesome down there. The mid and high notes really sang out with the SJVI. ...again, just my opinion...YMMV.

[sonnymobleytrane]

Don't Sell the stock neck!!!!

[thehighend]

It's always a good idea to save the stock neck, because the next owner of the horn will likely want it, and be willing to pay for it.

[Tryptykon]

In my humble opinion...the SJVI neck on the alto made more difference than on the tenor. It really opened up the sound a noticable amount. It made the horn freer-blowing. It didn't respond as well in the low notes, but was still awesome down there. The mid and high notes really sang out with the SJVI. ...again, just my opinion...YMMV.

I wonder if the SJ/VI neck would fit my B&S 2001 alto ?