View Full Version : Most Powerful Tenor Made Today?
Saxplayer1
02-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Most powerful Tenor made today. Series III, Ref. 36, Keilwerth SX90, Yamaha 875? Thoughts?
retread
02-27-2006, 11:22 PM
The most powerful tenor is the one used by the most powerful player. I don't know who that may be.
Dog Pants
02-27-2006, 11:33 PM
That would depend upon what sort of power you are looking for.
Power and the Passion: SX 90
Power and the Glory: Series III
Power to the People: Yamaha
The Hour of Power: Bundy, Jupiter,Armstrong, Yamaha student (as attested to by every school music teacher)
or you can go vintage, where we have
Power and Predjudice: Mark VI
The Powers that be: Conn
OK, I'll stop there...:)
Kritavi
02-28-2006, 12:03 AM
I'll put in a vote for Tyrone Power! :dazed:
A Greene
02-28-2006, 12:19 AM
I've never really thought of a saxophone in terms of POWER. Versatility, Tone Colors, Ergonomics, Durability, and of course MARK VI written somewhere on the instrument are more important items to me.:D
BlueNote
02-28-2006, 12:25 AM
I would think the King model of saxophones would be most powerful.
*ba doom crash* :D
Randall
02-28-2006, 12:34 AM
I always was led to fight the power....
anachronism that I am8-)
martysax
02-28-2006, 02:26 AM
"Walk softly and carry a big stick"
King Super 20, there ain't no subs to toot!
RickBusarow
02-28-2006, 02:32 AM
The loudest tenor I've played would be my SX-90R. The tenor which felt the loudest - because it vibrates like nothing else - is a Yanagisawa 901.
Razzy
02-28-2006, 06:23 AM
I've never really thought of a saxophone in terms of POWER. Versatility, Tone Colors, Ergonomics, Durability, and of course MARK VI written somewhere on the instrument are more important items to me.:D
Hear hear, there's a right chap!
rabbit
02-28-2006, 08:03 AM
Dog Pants: Brilliant! But what of Flower Power, Power of Persuasion
and Nuclear Power?
Flower Power
02-28-2006, 10:42 AM
Flower Power plays Bari! :-)
Greetings
Flower Power
Jolle
02-28-2006, 10:49 AM
Might sound stupid, but I have the impression that the loudness of my sax is far more influenced by the combination mouthpiece-reed than by the sax itself. When I play my classical VanDoren mouthpiece with a nr.3 Van Doren reed, my sax (a plain student Jupiter...) sounds feeble. When I put on my BergLarsen mouthpiece (115, large opening) with a RICO Jazz 2M, it sounds fairly loud, with a lot of subtone. Using a Van Doren ZZ nr. 2.5, it sounds like an army of chain saws (perfect for roaring ska performances :-) ).
davidk
02-28-2006, 11:51 AM
My SX90-R was louder and more boisterous / raucous than my King Super 20. That's why I sold it and kept the King. Much easier to tame.
I think the question was most powerful tenor made TODAY, which therefore excludes all the powerful horns of yesteryear: Conn, Buescher, Martin, King.
But yeah, the player is where the power comes from, and the mouthpiece makes more difference than the horn.
Power = Work per unit Time
Therefore
The Sax that does the most work in the least time is the most powerful
Quo Est Demonstrare
Man, doesn't the Cannonball fall into this category? I thought that was one of the things about them.
..in which case, Dog Pants, you get "Moroni Power" :D
tjontheroad
02-28-2006, 07:51 PM
Power???
I've been thinking of adding an electrical socket to my series III in order to lower my energy bills :D
martysax
02-28-2006, 08:26 PM
Most powerful new horn?
I asked Dominic, he said Monique or Pro II were both powerful because they were annealed.
I asked Emilio, he said not to listen to Dominic, just blow louder.:)
Most powerful new horn?
I asked Dominic, he said Monique or Pro II were both powerful because they were annealed.
So are the fenders of most cars...
I asked Emilio, he said not to listen to Dominic, just blow louder.:)
I think I'd go with Emilio on this one. ... or use a microphone.
Dave dix
02-28-2006, 09:15 PM
power comes from the mouthpiece or dominics ar#e
Dave
saxmanglen
02-28-2006, 09:20 PM
I'm holding out for "Tim the Tool Man's" Titanium Turbo Charged Carol Shelby model. It's going to be the BOSS! :D :D :D
Carl H.
02-28-2006, 09:32 PM
I'm holding out to see what Jay Leno can do with an olds.
I thought this thread would go somewhere...but...
In my own limited experience...even with student horns...the mouth piece makes the differnece. I guess most horns come with a stock mouthpiece for classical playing...which mean to me, stuffy, inhibiting and boreing. A proper open mouth piece means the horn can sing...where as before it could only humm.
SilverNeck20
03-19-2006, 01:55 PM
Mine is most powerful because my amp goes to "11" :D
blackfrancis
03-19-2006, 03:53 PM
I'm with you, SilverNeck. It isn't so much the horn as it is the P.A. Enough watts and anything can sing!
cmorrisona
03-17-2009, 03:51 AM
What's the scoops on having the horn annealed? I've kept my ears open for several years and only have heard wonderful things about it. I'm considering having both of my ref 54s done.
I can peel paint w/ my Rampone R1 alto. I'm betting the Rampone tenors can roar!!!
TenTenTooter
03-17-2009, 07:03 AM
The most powerful modern horn I've played was a Chineese un-branded horn, no question about it. It had absolutely no tone or finness, but plenty of power and noise.
whaler
03-17-2009, 12:50 PM
What's the scoops on having the horn annealed? I've kept my ears open for several years and only have heard wonderful things about it. I'm considering having both of my ref 54s done.
I don't think that would be a great idea since it involves heating of the metal;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)
modman
03-17-2009, 01:05 PM
In my own experience a Conn 94M DJH (Couf Superba II stencil) could be played louder acoustically than 7 guitar players with amps turned to 8-10.
B8-)
What's the scoops on having the horn annealed? I've kept my ears open for several years and only have heard wonderful things about it. I'm considering having both of my ref 54s done.
Your horn has already been annealed during manufacture. If you need it tweaked, send it to someone like Randy Jones (tenormadness.com) who specializes in setting up the Reference horns - things like adjusting the neck, checking the octave pips, and soldering the bow to the body will take it to the next level.
You may be thinking about cryogenic treatment - you don't need that too.
Most powerful tenor made today? Borgani Jubilee. :borg:
What's the scoops on having the horn annealed? I've kept my ears open for several years and only have heard wonderful things about it. I'm considering having both of my ref 54s done.
To put it bluntly what you've been hearing is total bs. Save your money (and your horn as well, probably) and don't fall for these scams, whether it be annealing or cryogenics or voodoo, etc. A few hours of practice will do a lot more for your horn than any of these 'treatments.'
Gange
03-22-2009, 08:36 PM
I played a P. Mauriat 66RUL last week and it felt pretty powerful, but I went home with a Mark VII for a little more than half the price. The Mauriat maybe was a little fatter but it was not enough to justify the difference in price.
modman
03-22-2009, 09:06 PM
I played a P. Mauriat 66RUL last week and it felt pretty powerful, but I went home with a Mark VII for a little more than half the price. The Mauriat maybe was a little fatter but it was not enough to justify the difference in price.
A New P. Mauriat costing almost twice a VII Selmer. There were alternatives to Mauriat if you wanted a new horn.
T.K. Melody (my favorite)
C.E. Winds Omega
Phil Barone
Berkelee Virtuoso?
System 54
Maxtone Special Order
PF Flier
Pete Thomas
03-22-2009, 09:15 PM
What's the scoops on having the horn annealed? I've kept my ears open for several years and only have heard wonderful things about it. I'm considering having both of my ref 54s done.
To put it bluntly what you've been hearing is total bs. Save your money (and your horn as well, probably) and don't fall for these scams, whether it be annealing or cryogenics or voodoo, etc. A few hours of practice will do a lot more for your horn than any of these 'treatments.'
I thought that annealing is a normal part of saxophone manufacture these days. It's just heating up the brass a bit after shaping to remove any stress in the metal. No voodoo, just normal practice I think.
I thought that annealing is a normal part of saxophone manufacture these days.
I agree and concur (see post #32). ;)
Your horn has already been annealed during manufacture.
adriaan
04-02-2009, 10:38 AM
When it comes to "powerful" tenors I'm inclined to think think of horns suited to R&B and fusion. I'm a great fan of Yanagisawa, especially their sopranos, but like the Series III I find them too "polite" sounding, just personal taste. Keilwerth horns have loads of power, just listen to Kirk Whalum. Do have a look at the P.Mauriat Range, especially the 500BX. I recently tried a solid silver Mauriat and it almost ripped my head of...power and projection like anything, but quite expensive. Also bear in mind that the relationship between horn and mouthpiece will be a huge factor in the search for "power."
Yofis
04-02-2009, 01:12 PM
Power = Work per unit Time
Work = the quantity of energy transferred from one system to another, for example, energy which goes into expanding the volume of a system against an external pressure.
By definition then, a saxophone does no work thus the Power = 0/time. Any legal fraction (denominator not equal to zero) with a numerator equal to zero has an overall value of zero.
Therefore no Saxophone has a power value. Now the player....
braninwinds
04-02-2009, 02:11 PM
Its all in the player and the mouthpiece! We all know that there are SSO's (saxophone shaped objects) out there, but if you find a selection of vintage and modern horns that are in perfect working order. There is a big difference in the way each one of them play and sound individually and if the player adds a variety of mouthpieces, facings, reeds, ect. Each one of the variables help fine tune your sound. A player has the availability to get a great sound on a less exspensive horn with a more advanced mouthpiece!
But, at the end of the day every player shoves a mic in their bell and blows their gutts out and that fine tuning go out the window! Because of those darn guitarists
stormott77
04-02-2009, 04:04 PM
I have let countless people try my Cannonball tenor. I would say 90% of the time they sound fuller and bigger on my horn than their own. I have heard guys on every type of set up you can think of and my horn usually sounds better.
I thought that annealing is a normal part of saxophone manufacture these days. It's just heating up the brass a bit after shaping to remove any stress in the metal. No voodoo, just normal practice I think.
Whoops, sorry for my ignorance. I thought he was talking about sending a horn that has already been manufactured in for some sort of annealing treatment. I doubt that would be necessary, or would it do something?
themacintrasher
04-03-2009, 02:01 AM
YTS-52s are the loudest tenors I've ever played. I play one for marching and pep band. For pro horns probably a Super 20 or a series III.
Gange
04-14-2009, 09:25 PM
I played a P. Mauriat 66RUL last week and it felt pretty powerful, but I went home with a Mark VII for a little more than half the price. The Mauriat maybe was a little fatter but it was not enough to justify the difference in price.
A New P. Mauriat costing almost twice a VII Selmer. There were alternatives to Mauriat if you wanted a new horn.
T.K. Melody (my favorite)
C.E. Winds Omega
Phil Barone
Berkelee Virtuoso?
System 54
Maxtone Special Order
PF Flier
Why would i want a new horn? None of those brands are available in Sweden, as far as I know, and I would never do business with Barone again.
The Mark VII is a terrific horn, has great value, and it will keep that value if I need to sell it later on.
Pete Thomas
04-14-2009, 09:32 PM
I played a P. Mauriat 66RUL last week and it felt pretty powerful, but I went home with a Mark VII for a little more than half the price. The Mauriat maybe was a little fatter but it was not enough to justify the difference in price.
A New P. Mauriat costing almost twice a VII Selmer. There were alternatives to Mauriat if you wanted a new horn.
T.K. Melody (my favorite)
C.E. Winds Omega
Phil Barone
Berkelee Virtuoso?
System 54
Maxtone Special Order
PF Flier
Why would i want a new horn? None of those brands are available in Sweden, as far as I know, and I would never do business with Barone again.
The Mark VII is a terrific horn, has great value, and it will keep that value if I need to sell it later on.
You may also find that none of those are as good as the 66R anyway. I have tried a couple of those and found them not to be in same league as the 66R which is a superb saxophone (even better with a 76 neck), but if you like the MKVII over the Mauriat then you've certainly made the right choice.
(Having said that, the Maxtone SX-58T/NUL is a very interesting horn, well worth trying out if you ever get the chance)
Uri Ben
06-10-2009, 09:01 PM
Most Powerful Tenor Made Today?
I don't know - no body knows - there is no such a bist. If you don't smoke - practice regularly, use - let say - Lebayle MP and sure will change your horn to be the strongest , most powerful tenor that - YOU - can blow. Powerful yes - but good music is not powerful - good music has nothing to do with power but a lot with talent, love and soul and more love...
magical pig
06-10-2009, 09:06 PM
Most Powerful Tenor Made Today?
I don't know - no body knows - there is no such a bist. If you don't smoke - practice regularly, use - let say - Lebayle MP and sure will change your horn to be the strongest , most powerful tenor that - YOU - can blow. Powerful yes - but good music is not powerful - good music has nothing to do with power but a lot with talent, love and soul and more love...
In some contexts, music requires a lot of power.
Victor.
FremontSax
06-10-2009, 09:18 PM
Ahhh think (which often hurts) that the measurement should be strictly about power! Like a tractor pull contest. I want to know how many dB's you can hit with your tenor and how many rows of people where knocked backwards out of their chairs. I don't even care if you were in tune. When we talk POWER I don't even care how clean it is.
1saxman
06-11-2009, 12:45 AM
Most powerful Tenor made today. Series III, Ref. 36, Keilwerth SX90, Yamaha 875? Thoughts?
They no longer make powerful saxes. You have to go vintage for that. Two that come to mind are 'The Martin' altos, tenors and baritones and Selmer USA altos and tenors in the 82xxxx range. Loud, thick blasters.
1saxman
06-11-2009, 12:52 AM
I thought that annealing is a normal part of saxophone manufacture these days. It's just heating up the brass a bit after shaping to remove any stress in the metal. No voodoo, just normal practice I think.
Whoops, sorry for my ignorance. I thought he was talking about sending a horn that has already been manufactured in for some sort of annealing treatment. I doubt that would be necessary, or would it do something?
It would do something, all right - melt the solder and burn the lacquer off. All the ribs and posts would fall off. Annealing requires red-hot temperatures and a calculated cooling-off. Only newly-made necks and bells are usually annealed because of the work-hardening imposed in their manufacture. The only thing that can be done to a finished horn is cryogenic treatment. Not to start an argument on whether or not it does anything - just saying.
MartinMusicMan
06-11-2009, 02:52 AM
They no longer make powerful saxes. You have to go vintage for that. Two that come to mind are 'The Martin' altos, tenors and baritones and Selmer USA altos and tenors in the 82xxxx range. Loud, thick blasters.When I got my Martin many years ago, I auditioned new horns of the time, including a Mark VI. I was just starting out on my career as a young rock 'n' roller and I was looking for maximum power. The Martin won hands down. Still does. That said, though, I agree that mouthpiece and player make more of a difference with any particular horn than the horn itself.
musicwriter2001
06-11-2009, 03:08 AM
i have always been a fan of the vintage saxes. for whatever reason they seem to have a certain sound that i dont hear in todays instruments. my buescher has a very distinctive sound, it is loud, it seems to have a lot of low harmonic resonances going on. that being said, my goodson with the levelair and a fibracell hard reed just blasts through, and doing a ska band with questionable sound systems in most venues, i am heard.
Uri Ben
06-12-2009, 12:18 AM
Dearl friends -
don't mix music with power - when you do it -it seems that your just losts your pills for the day and you want to get out of your psychological complex with a big noise, it works some times but never works well enough. Be sure that if you will play with feelings and emotions you will be far off better (your listners too- if you will have any after the big bbboooommmm)
Bebopalot
06-12-2009, 01:16 AM
I haven't played every single brand of tenor but I can say that my Steve Goodson Model tenor is powerful, loud and bright enough for me to never even consider what could be more powerful. Beyond that, I guess you just need a better mic and bigger amps.
Robysax
06-12-2009, 01:41 AM
The weakest tenor, sound as the most powerfull, after the Big open mouthpiece, mic, pedals, preamp, mixer, EQ, BBE sonic maximizer, Power amp and big speakers.
There's no Guitar, bass, or drum set that can overpower my tenor even my soprano.
A friend of mine had the loud guitar sindrome, and he heard my sax PA sistem, he make me set one for his sax and never suffer the sindrome again, he is a happy man now.
Turnaround
06-12-2009, 03:50 AM
I believe power is in the player. So as far as the most powerful tenor player that I know of it would be:
Tenor leader of the "free" world. (http://www.briansacawa.com/images/clinton.jpg)
Alexk
06-15-2009, 09:49 AM
FremontSax wrote
that the measurement should be strictly about power! Like a tractor pull contest. I want to know how many dB's you can hit with your tenor and how many rows of people where knocked backwards out of their chairs. I don't even care if you were in tune. When we talk POWER I don't even care how clean it is.
I thought about this for a bit, and while I initially agreed with it, I decided that there must be some science we could use here. Remember the sax playing robot of Giant Steps fame?
Let's put that to work: we simply add an air flow meter and an air pressure transducer to the throat of the robot, now we can check air flow and back pressure. Mount a couple of sound pressure intruments around the sax and we're good to go. Program the computer to play every note on the sax for say 4 beats and record SPL over the full range of the sax. Analyse and graph after each run.
Then pick a good free playing sax and use the robot to sort out a truly loud mouthpiece and reed combo. Then the real fun starts, with the robot sax providing a constant embouchure and known air stream and pressure, various saxes can be tried until the most powerful is found.
hgiles
06-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Even in auto racing the most powerful doesn't always win.
ansyf125
06-15-2009, 01:58 PM
Conn's and Cannonballs.
Pete Thomas
06-15-2009, 03:01 PM
Conn's and Cannonballs.
Cannonballs are certainly loud. Is that the same as powerful?
Cannonballs are certainly loud. Is that the same as powerful?
I don't think it's the same thing at all. Not sure I want to try and explain why not, though.
ansyf125
06-15-2009, 05:13 PM
Conn's and Cannonballs.
Cannonballs are certainly loud. Is that the same as powerful?
Define powerful.
Pete Thomas
06-15-2009, 05:21 PM
Conn's and Cannonballs.
Cannonballs are certainly loud. Is that the same as powerful?
Define powerful.
Who, me?
I asked the question because I don't know. Or rather, I probably don't know an objective answer. I think some people may get loudness confused with power.
Loudness can be measured in decibels, power can be an almost indefinable quality, such as a "big" sound (not necessarily loud). It can be a powerfully emotive sound on a saxophone, even harder to define objectively. e.g. Ben Webster or may sound powerful, but not necessarily loud compared with some modern players using high baffle pieces.
I always think of Gato Barbieri as powerful, but I doubt he is actually loud.
I wasn't going to try to explain the distinction between powerful and loud, but Pete's point is really well-taken, so I'll give it a partial go.
You can play LOUD with a very thin, shrill sound without much power behind it. Power, in musical terms, to me means a BIG sound, but not necessarily loud. Dexter Gordon comes to mind. He could certainly play loud or soft, but he never lacked power.
I guess I'd say you can't really get it from any given horn or set-up, except maybe a set-up with a lot of 'body' would favor a powerful sound. Mostly, of course, it comes from how you play.
tomsch
06-15-2009, 11:23 PM
I have seen Gato live in a small club and when he was off the mic he was not loud. Very full sounding though.
Stealth Swimmer
07-03-2009, 05:29 AM
I wasn't going to try to explain the distinction between powerful and loud, but Pete's point is really well-taken, so I'll give it a partial go.
You can play LOUD with a very thin, shrill sound without much power behind it. Power, in musical terms, to me means a BIG sound, but not necessarily loud. Dexter Gordon comes to mind. He could certainly play loud or soft, but he never lacked power.
I guess I'd say you can't really get it from any given horn or set-up, except maybe a set-up with a lot of 'body' would favor a powerful sound. Mostly, of course, it comes from how you play.
Great point, definitely who I think of when I think of a "powerful" sound. I guess the OP means loud and with a big sound....so some sorta mix of the two I'm thinkin.
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