Courtney Pine....Sax master

[Alexander]

I've been playing sax since I was 9 years old and after 14 years consider myself to be a pretty good judge of good players and I've seen all the big names live; David Sanborn, Candy Dulfer, Kenny G, Soweto Kinch, Andy Shepard and a couple of weeks ago I was fortunate to see Courtney Pine live at the Jazz cafe in London. Mr Pine totally blew me away, his mastery of his instruement is beyond belief! His harmonic range and consistency was simply staggering. I honestly think this guy is in a whole new league of sax players! Just wondering what anyone else thinks? If you get the chance go see him live, he's on a UK tour at the mo!

[docformat]

I don't know...... it depends on what you are looking for in a player I guess. You are right that he is technically a brilliant player but, and this is just a personal opinion (obviously), i don't think he's a great musician - by that i mean i don't rate his approach to melody or phrasing. I also don't think he plays very sympathetically towards his material - up-tempo tunes or ballads are all obliterated in a haze of notes.
It's interesting that you brought him up as in about 18 months of using this forum i think this is the first time i've seen a thread about him, which is pretty strange as he's probably the only jazz musician who could claim to be a household name in th UK.
I'd be interested to see what other UK-heads think.

[Pete Thomas]

which is pretty strange as he's probably the only jazz musician who could claim to be a household name in th UK.
I'd be interested to see what other UK-heads think.

Well there's more than one "household" name. Not that any jazz musician is literally a household name these days, but there are a few that are a bit householdier than the talented Courtney. Admittedly, nobody quite in the Kenny G league of householdness I guess.

Acker Bilk
Johnny Dankworth
George Melly
Humphrey Littleton
Ronnie Scott

[elstonc]

I'm a fan of Mr Pine, though I know what docformat is getting at. I saw Pine recently at a concert in Birmingham UK. Great stuff, technically though I think his musicianship comes out better on his recordings. I think he's actually better when working with melodies than doing all the fireworks stuff, impressive though that is. But his concerts are still a great night out and one thing that doesn't come across on recordings is what a fantastic entertainer he is. And, loads of young people in the audience, which I think is great for British jazz.

[Sid]

Mmmm... interesting that Mr P is now being compared to those 'other' big names Sanborn, Dulfer & G! I've got Courtney's first two albums ('86 & '87), which I found very impressive at the time - remember this was the period of Loose Tubes & the Jazz Warriors, if my memory doesn't fail me, this was also the period that CP played with Art Blakey when the latter was in London - the later experimentation with disc jockeys & hip-hop I can live without.

Pete, add Shearing, Feldman, Lemon & Tracey to the list... in my household at least!!!

[Pinnman]

To me, technical skill does not equal music. I saw Courtney Pine a few years ago. There are some other UK based sax players who, like him, show technical mastery but do not play music. Even so, I wish I had their skill .... and some melodic ideas too!

[docformat]

Pete - what i meant is that he's the only player in the UK who could claim to be known in the mainstream pop scene at the minute. Big up Acker!

[dshook]

Check out the UK's Soweto Kinch. Saw him in Vancouver, he put on a really great show, some great jazz and some intelligent rapping.

[catfishman123@hotmail.com]

i personally am a huge fan of courtney, he is great!! i like his recent album i would say its his second best, but wow live he just blew my mind, i have never heard sax playing like it, i am going to see him for the second time on his tour he was that good,just an opinion, i feel that in his lastest album in some solos he uses effects on his sax sound, which i presonally prefer a pure sax tone to come through, what do you lot think

[Kritavi]

At least in the recordings I have heard I find Andy Shepard to be a far more impressive and appealing player.

[Johngy]

I personally think that courtney Pine is a great player, his a;bum resistance is great and i love it, infact im listening to it right now lol. I like his style, and his technical playing is great, i saw him live last year i think it was, and it was amazing.

[barisaxbeast]

At least in the recordings I have heard I find Andy Shepard to be a far more impressive and appealing player.

I'll go along with that. I think Mr Pine is a bit of a "note merchant". ie great technique but, to me, it don't mean a lot. Some of our best (UK) players are mainly studio based, a couple that come to mind are Alan Barnes, a master on any sax or woodwind and possibly Jamey Talbot. Both of these guys would leave Courtney back in the starting blocks.

[benedictbranca]

I saw Courtney pine at the jazz cafe also in london! I was thoroughly disppointed! I felt so ashamed that a saxophone could be played so badly in what is meant to be the best jazz venue in the uk! If that is what saxophone playing and jazz has come to in the uk I think I may leave and travel to the US or start my own band! At one point his eyes nearly popped out of his head when he was screeching out an altissmo note, it was not a pleasant sight! His constant move from one altissimo note to the lowest note on the sax over and over and over and over again was in no way pleasant, musical, attractive, or clever! The other band members were just as bad or should I say EXPERIMENTAL, if that is what this type of music is called these days! I thought to myself, no wonder courtney pine did not succeed in america. He may have been a sign of young talent at an earlier stage but he hasnt progressed at all in the years that have passed! Why is it all the saxophone players I have seen blow as hard as they can all the time? Doesn't any saxophonist understand the concept of altering volume and playing loudly or softly? Maybe its just because I am a smooth jazz man! Afterall I do hate the saying, "its close enough for jazz"!

[Dan Forshaw]

Courtney Pine was my route back into Jazz and when I have met him he has been one of the nicest most helpful genuine guys going..his gig at Southport in 2000 changed my life, he has a PHENOMINAL technique Greg Tardy (who has played with Elvin Jones and many others) commented to me he saw Courtney in concert and nearly gave up playing!................but here's the negatives his more recent stuff (devotion, resistance) are very poor in comparison with his late 90s stuff . Back in the Day was not phenonmenal musically (alot of F concert blues licks hashed together) but his use of Music Tech was tasteful and yea I dug what he was doing....but as I have grown musically his stuff does not satisfy me........... its trying to be too mainstream (and failing at that too!) maybe its worth noting but those 90's albums (Underground / Modern Day jazz stories) were done with a producer I think Defalyo Marsalis who I think gave Courtney boundries and worked on the compositonal process, without this I think musically speaking he lags behind his contempories (Branford / Joshua Redman et al).. I dont think I will ever match Courtney Pine in a cutting contest and I have so much respect for him as a guy but musically hmmm pains my heart but I hear better guys around

[Dan Molloy]

Courtney was a great "poster boy" for the 80's uk jazz fashion period.
If you look deeper, then as now, there are many more creative and interesting saxers in the uk. My current uk and world favourite Tim Garland being one excellent example.

[docformat]

One thing that does have to be said for CP is that he has managed to maintain a high profile at a time when contemporary jazz has had virtually no presence in the 'youth' music scene. Although I agree with Dan that his forays into electronic/dance/hip-hop have been weak.

I've got my tickets to see Soweto Kinch at the LJF - someone who strikes me as a more musically interesting prospect. Rapper, player and Oxford history graduate - bloody hell!