Selmer 404

[MB-913]

Can Selmer 404 lig fit for today's STM Metal Link ?

[Thomas]

perfectly

[MB-913]

perfectly

But I heard Selmer 404 lig only fit for Vintage Metal Link but it's a little bit small for today's STM . Is it ture?

[sabritas]

MB,

I have a new STM 7 NY. I got a 404 and it BARELY fits. The screws almost are to the point were it comes undone. I see a lot of pros using the 404 on links and it looks like its also a tight fit for them (video, dvd)...screws don't show coming through.....

The NY maybe have a wider circumfrence....though.

[MB-913]

sabritas

Yes, we saw a lot of artist are using 404 on their Metal Link. The fact is most of them are using vintage Link (Florida Link). The diameter of vintage Link is a little bit smaller than new Link.

[sabritas]

hey MB!

Dont you think selmer should make one to fit modern links? Dang. Check out the sax quest site. They sell customized new links with the 404.

Hey do you know if brecker uses the 404 link. It's a little loose on my Guardala Crescent.

[Thomas]

the 404 fits modern Links...perfectly

[jazzbluescat]

I just got a 404 last week....unbelievable how the horn's opened up.


[BTW the stock Link lig has got to be the most worthless piece of crap on the market today.]

[BobD]

If your using a current production NY Link you will need to stretch the lig for good fit. Put the reed on the piece and then the lig as far as it will go while getting a good bit with the screws. Tighten down the lig, then loosen it and it will slide further onto the piece. Then tighten it down again to stretch it some more. Eventually it will fit fine.

[MB-913]

I just get a Selmer 404 lig & a refaced Metal Link STM. Yes, it's still OK but the low screw position is a little bit too tight. Anybody tried to stretch it slightly until it fit to the Link in a comfortable size? Will it influence the ligature?

[max]

Give it a day or two. If the screw still feels a little rough, add some lube of some sort. I use lanolin for cork grease, so I added just a touch of it to the screw threads - it's been great ever since...

[MB-913]

Give it a day or two. If the screw still feels a little rough, add some lube of some sort. I use lanolin for cork grease, so I added just a touch of it to the screw threads - it's been great ever since...


I mean the lower part of the Selmer lig is too small (Not very small but a little bit small). Thus, the 2nd screw even cannot touch the connecting part. The result is this screw are easy to drop out. Yes, I can push the lig a little up but it won't sound the same.

Actually, the most important thing I'm concern is I'm worry if put too much pressure on it, will hurt the reed.

[max]

Oh - I see.

On my Florida Link, the "lower" part is a little skewed, but the screw still reaches. I didn't realize that the modern ones were that much bigger (I had heard that they were bigger, but I didn't think it was that much...).

[MB-913]

Oh - I see.

On my Florida Link, the "lower" part is a little skewed, but the screw still reaches. I didn't realize that the modern ones were that much bigger (I had heard that they were bigger, but I didn't think it was that much...).


Yes, it's regret the Selmer Lig cannot 100% fit on my STM.
Anybody know if it can fit a Barone's Hollywood's or Jazz model (tenor) ?

[Fatlip]

MB-913,
It sounds like you have the wrong size 404 on your STM. If it is a tenor Link then the tenor 404 is a perfect fit. There are no problems with the screws not reaching. You may have an ALTO 404! The alto 404 fits over a Link tenor piece (without the reed) but won't clamp on .
Just as a point of reference, the 404 should be almost as long as the body of your mouthpiece( the part with the ridge on the top and the Otto Link logo). If it's not , then you probably have the alto 404 and not the tenor.

[MB-913]

Fatlip

My 404 fits over a Tenor STM (without reed), but just a bit tight after putting the reed on. I don't think it's for alto because it's too big for a alto Link (I compared already).

OK, I just tried again. As you said, the 404 is almost same length as the body of my STM (Otto Link logo). I understand now, usually I slide the ligature a little bit low but you know as low as the MPC area, the bigger diameter it has.

Where you put your 404 on your Link as reference point? The parallel line on the reed ? If yes, it's fit. But 2nd screw is more tight than the first one. So, I don't screw it much.

[Fatlip]

MB-913
Since I can't see your mouthpiece and 404 I went and measured mine so you can see if it is the same length. It measures 28mm or 1 1/8 inches long. If yours is shorter than this , then it is an alto 404. Remember, the 404 is designed for a Selmer mouthpiece not a Link, so maybe that's why it's too big on your alto Link.
In any case, if it turns out that you do have a tenor 404, here's what I suggest. Take an old reed and attach the ligature and tighten as tight as possible in order to stretch the metal a bit.I have four Links and mine fits on all of them( 3 NYs and 1 STM).In fact on one of them , the screws tighten all the way!
I hope this helps you out. 8)

[Mark R]

sabritas wrote:

Hey do you know if brecker uses the 404 link. It's a little loose on my Guardala Crescent.


I believe Brecker uses an alto Selmer 404. I use to own a Guardala Studio (lazer trimmed) and the alto 404 fit, it was very snug and the threads were out quite a bit but it does fit. The tenor model is a little large for Guardalas. One remedy is to place either some cork or a thick mouthpiece patch on the top part of the lig to compensate for the looseness. I presently use a tenor 404 on a SRTech Fusion tenor piece and it gives a richer,more focused tone than the alto model. I think this is due to a larger area of the screwplate making contact with the reed. Hope this helps.

[Mark R]

sorry quote highlight was supposed to be on the question posed by sabritas, not what I had to contribute.

[SuperDave]

I did the lig stretching bit for my new Link NY and it fits all the way on now...it was very tiight at first now it can slide all the way back.

[citizn cane]

Funny thing about that 404: 2 years ago I needed to get another one, so picked one up at Rayburn's & it fit my STM (current prod) perfectly, no need to stretch & the screws were plenty long enough with any reed brand. About 6 months later another tenor player friend of mine said he ordered one from WW&BW & it was too small for his Link STM. We went to Rayburn's together & the ones they had at that time were also too small (my 404 fit his piece, though!). I could only conclude that the size changed or that quality control is poor, or maybe there are even a few different sizes all sold under the same general order # of "404." Weird stuff.

[citizn cane]

BTW, Fatlip's reply would make a whole lotta sense. Maybe there's confusion at some point with respect to manufacturer, distributor, retailer, etc., where somehow they end up mixing the alto & tenor sizes up.

[MB-913]

After I've test 5 to 6 different STM, N.Y. Link & vintage Florida Link. Now, I've something in mind. Selmer 404 can fit or cannot fit on the above Link is due to this reasons:


1) Some Selmer 404 is poorly made. Check out the alignment on the screw - upper screw & lower screw is always not balance. So, left & right plate on the ligature is not balance.

Like this:


Bad 404 = ／ ﹨ or ﹨ ／


Good 404 = ︳︳

Last time when I bought my 404 ligature (I got one before but bad one), I can only find one good 404 in every 5 to 6.


2) The Link (include STM & N.Y) in different period has slightly difference in body diameter.

Example: Recent N.Y Link is much bigger than 90' N.Y. Link. I check this by a Vandoren V-16 Optimum Ligature. The new N.Y Link (made in 2003) is too big for the Optimum lig, impossible to fit. But my 90' period N.Y. & new STM is 100% fit.


3) Vintage Folorida Link (STM)
I check 404 by 3 different Florida Link, all can fit. So, I consider the Florida Link should have similar diameter.

[MB-913]

Bad 404 = ／ ﹨ or ﹨ ／

Good 404 = ︳︳

Sorry, I made mistake when post this.
You may not see the code. Actually, what I mean is the alignment on the left & right side on the 404 ligature.