Alto screamer

[saintsday]

I wonder what the forum members would consider the most powerful alto, new or vintage. I don't mean necessarily just loud, because it seems like there are horns that sound loud when you are close to them, but don't really project over a distance. Any thoughts?

[Dave Wright]

It would probably be being played by the most powerful lungs/chops..

[Grumps]

Set up plays a crucial role as well. A horn with Noyek resonators is gonna scream a bit more than one without.

[Dave Dolson]

It has been my experience that vintage Conns (say '20's and '30's) have huge voices, at least the ones I've played, owned, and heard. True, the player has much to do with that, but when I played my Conns against my Selmers and Bueschers, the Conns were stronger (not sweeter, though). Then, I came across a new Unison alto at Rheuben Allen's shop and the Unison was even stronger than my Conn (alto). I suspect much of it may be in the individual instrument, too. AND, there is more to a saxophone than mere volume.

As far as resos go, I have a TH&C alto with Noyek resos (done before I bought it). It isn't as strong as my Big B alto with snap-ins. I like the Big B a little better not because of the resos, though.

My '32 Cigar Cutter has Noyeks, too. THAT horn has resonance and a pretty strong voice, but so do other Selmers and Bueschers (and Conns).

The whole issue of resonators has been argued before . . . suffice to say that like finishes, I don't think it is possible to test the premise (that resos matter). So much goes into a re-build and resos are just a small part of it. So, when you tear down a horn, install different resos, and re-assemble it, things beyond the resos change. Hence, any differences can't be attributed just to the resos. DAVE

[Grumps]

Perhaps I should have stated "...a bit more than one without resonators to begin with."

[Pete Thomas]

The mouthpice is a much bigger factor in the screaminess and power than any difference between horns. On tenor I got an almost 50% step up in volume when I switched to a Guardala when they first came out, but after a while the sound was too inflexible so I switched to RPC - still got the power and screaming but had subtley too. And I compared these on many horns and the difference level in horns was minimal.

And of course the resos will also make a difference as has been pointed out, though whether this is mainly tonal or a real step up in power is debatable, because they do change the sound.

Similarly the baffle in a mouthpiece tends to add brightness which can be construed as volume, but often this is just because it has the ability to cut across other instruments because of it's tone.

The only altos I've owned or used that had a slightly lower volume are the early Selmers (Modele 22, Adolphe) and early Truetone. Most later vintage and all modern quality horns seem to have a more or less similar level. There are some that seem louder when you are playing them, but from a distance there is not much difference. (As you pointed out: power vs volume)

I think what you should be looking at is the horn that does not break down on you when you push it - now that can be a very subjective decision based on mouthpiece and embouchure. Very often you can get a great horn/mouthpiece combo that gives you power that lets you down on one or two roguer notes (e.g. the top C on some MK VIs can be a real dog when pushed)

If you want a big big sound a lot of it is psychological too, for me I like the feeling of my Buescher TH & C alto as it just seems to resonate, sort of inspiring to play, which seems to make me actually play it better (and with more dynamic range) than some other horns even though they seem just as good to begin with.

[saintsday]

I understand what a huge difference the mouthpiece makes, but with the same mouthpiece it sure seems like my Cannonball is louder than my TH&C which is louder than my 50's Aristocrat(a little) which is louder than my New Aristocrats which are just a little louder than my True Tones. As previously mentioned, that does NOT mean sweeter. That goes to the re-laq New 'Crat with a vintage piece.

[Dave Dolson]

Grumps: Agreed, but even testing one horn with NO resos vs. one with resos installed would be difficult for comparison purposes because of the changes made during installation.

Pete: I played the various horns I mentioned using the same mouthpieces, hence a better assessment of how each horn affected the overall sound I achieved rather than evaluating various mouthpiece combos. There ARE differences among various brands, models and eras of saxophones, especially when you set out a battery (gaggle? group? herd? . . .) of various saxophones and blow them all at one sitting. Whether or not the audience hears it is questionable, but I sure did.

And, there is a difference between volume and projection - much of that has to do with the player and the mouthpiece, I think. A very focused sound will achieve the projection better than having a strong-voiced horn. DAVE

[Grumps]

... for me I like the feeling of my Buescher TH & C alto as it just seems to resonate, sort of inspiring to play, which seems to make me actually play it better (and with more dynamic range) than some other horns even though they seem just as good to begin with.

I tried to put that exact sentiment into words in another string regarding my TT alto. Man, that's a great feeling to have.

As for my experience with Noyeks, I've got them on two horns; my 10M and a Zephyr alto (that my son plays). When I got the 10M, it had new pads with flat metal resonators. There really wasn't anything else done to the horn when I had just the resonators swapped out, and it had just been tweaked by the same tech prior thereto. And yeah, with the Noyeks, it had a greater resonance to it. How much? I can't measure. Is it all in my head? Could be, but that's where my ears are too. Anyhow, the Zephyr got its Noyeks with a complete overhaul, and boy is it piercing; and that's with an old Woodwind Company mouthpiece. Will be trying a high baffle RPC on it sometime down the road. Hope the roof stays on...

[super20dan]

i have had at least 50 altos and played 100,s but suprising the loudest alto i ever played was a newer generation buescher 400. this one was based on the bundy 2 model

[GHawk]

I play a Beechler S8S on alto most of the time - it's a very, very loud mouthpiece. My personal horn is a Martin Magna that really honks. I played my friends new Selmer Reference alto a few months back. It is WAY louder than my Martin. Probably the loudest horn that I've ever played.

[Dave Dolson]

GHawk: I agree about the Beechler piece. Mine is an S7S, and it rests in my mouthpiece box unplayed. Harsh and loud doesn't adequately describe it for me. Not sure about the Ref 54 being the loudest alto I've ever owned/played. I still credit the Unison I owned, followed by a '25 Conn. DAVE