Epoxy on MPC - Good or Bad ?

[MB-913]

I saw some MPC modification work will add a layer of brass/epoxy baffle on the baffle & inner-side wall.


1 What is the function and purpose of this?

2. How's the difference of sound compare to without doing this ?

3. Brass, Epoxy = Which is better choice and why?

[MojoBari]

1. Makes a large chamber, rounded side wall mouthpiece (like a Link STM) into a medium or smaller chamber straight side wall mouthpiece design. Some players like the look and feel of a Link on the outside. They also like the Link name.

2. Brighter, louder.

3. Brass powder epoxy looks nice inside a brass or gold-plated piece. Accoustically, I do think it matters what is used.

[soreliprick]

Epoxy BAAADDDD :x Liquid Steel GOOODDD :wink:

[David Spiegelthal]

"Liquid Steel" IS epoxy ---- filled with steel powder.

[Bloo Dog]

For baffle making I've been using FastSteel putty epoxy manufactured by Polymeric Systems, Inc. It comes in a Tootsie Roll-like roll with one component on the inside and the other on the outside.

Like all putty epoxies, it requires kneading. It remains in a workable consistency for about 8-10 minutes. (It has an odor reminiscent of dirty diapers while it is being kneaded, but the smell disappears after it begins to harden).

To make my baffles, I use a method similar to Mojo's: I put vaseline in the mouthpiece then line the inside with HandiWrap. I also plug the throat with a soft wav to limit the incursion of the epoxy into the throat.

I don't try to shape the baffle while the epoxy is in the mouthpiece; instead, I fill up the baffle area to the height of the rails. When the expoxy has set ( about 10 min) I remove the baffle and let it sit overnight.

To shape the baffle I don't use a file. Instead I use a knife-sharpening carborundum stone. By wetting the stone first, I don't have the problem of dust. The wetstone allows me to create a perfectly flat baffle very quickly. When the baffle is finished, I slip it into the mouthpiece and secure it with ashesive wax until I find the correct position, then I glue it with a craft glue.

After the FastSteel has completely hardened, it looks like JB Weld, but perhaps a little darker. After a few days, it is just about as hard as cured JB Weld.

The same company makes another putty epoxy which is intended for repairing vinyl pools and fiberglas surfaces. It has a longer working time and requires an hour to set completely. It is considerably softer than fastSteel but it is completely inert and does not react with saliva.

[sessionsax]

Won't these epoxy baffles fall out after a fairly short period of time?

[MojoBari]

If you epoxy them or cast them in place, without a release agent (Vaseline), they will not fall out. You will need to grind them out.

Most mouthpieces are tapered in a way that you can wedge in a removable baffle if it is properly shaped (like Runyon does with a Spoiler).

[Bloo Dog]

True, you need a release agent if you cast the baffle in place. Filing one of these buggers in place is not fun.

'80's Otto link tenor HR mpcs are conical and require that the finished baffle be inserted from the bore end of the piece, then secured. (Soprano baffles may be slipped in from the front, depending upon the length of the bafle).

I like to use clear laminating wax for positioning the finished baffle; it does not form a permanant bond and is easily pried loose if you want to move the baffle or remove it. Because it is heat sensitive, i would hesitate to recommend using laminating wax if you intend to play the mouthpiece for extended periods of time.

I recommend a good quality double-sided large wetstone for finishing cast baffles outside the moithpiece.

[sessionsax]

Huh, I must be doing something wrong. I used JB weld as an epoxy and raised the baffle on a Beechler Metalite. I ran into two problems.

First, the very tip of the epoxy baffle nearest the mpc tip began to push back from the pressure of my airstream. I guess I sanded the epoxy to thin?

And later, about a week or so, the whole darned thing just lifted out of the piece. I guess its back to the drawing board.

Maybe a different epoxy will prove better.

[Stencilman]

Hmm. I've used JB Weld and JB Quik in about 10 mouthpieces and never had it come loose. To remove it, a Dremel tool must be used. Sounds like there was a coating of something in the mouthpiece before you applied the epoxy, no?

[sessionsax]

huh, you think it might be because its fairly smooth stainless steel?

[Johannes Gerber]

When the surface is roughed up some before the epoxy is added it should never come loose.

I sometimes use a 2mm drill bit in the flex shaft and make a few small 1mm deep holes in a line where the epoxy will be - this way it will NEVER come loose - I need to apply some serious force with a screwdriver or sharp object to remove it. - Only do this after you have determined the best baffle position and on a piece where the baffle will not be removed.

[Johannes Gerber]

Forgot to mention above -

Where a removable baffle is to be created, I still prefer to use brass or bronze - it's very easy to file a correctly shaped baffle, you don't have the problem of the thin side joining the high baffle lifting or flipping up - this is easiest to do on square chamber pieces.

[Subtone Sam]

Has anyone got any experience making baffles from this product that is made by swedish company,CasCo;it is called "Marine&Teknik" (no need for translation here)? Its glue/filler type of material,slightly elastic but not much.This is supposed to be a safe product,non-toxic.

[Honeyboy]

:( I once made a baffle for a rubber Link mouthpiece out of FastSteel. It worked great but started giving off a foul metallic taste in my mouth which became quite unbearable to play.

[Subtone Sam]

I'm using Loctite epoxy putty on couple of Links now and it works great but I still don't feel comfortable putting epoxy in my mouth while I play.Any experiences with coating the epoxy baffles? I'm experimenting with nail polish now but I'm not sure if it is working.