Sugal Saxophones

[Joe Jazz]

Anybody tried one of these things? Are they just another cheap taiwanese plot to separate us from our hard earned money?

[KEN K]

If a dealer buys fifty horns and they can have any name they want put on it. Who knows what it is or who made it or what quality it is.

[colibri]

Gary Sugal makes decent mouthpieces, but in my opinion not worth the big amount of money he charges. I expect his horns to be the same. The Asian brands "Monique" and "Century" are from the same manufacture, but stamped with different names. "Sugal" could be from the same place, except with an extra zero on the price tag.

[Morry]

To me, it diminishes his reputation for quality mouthpieces when he also deals in crappy horns.

[singlereed]

To be fair to the guy, none of us has actually held or played one, and we do know that there are quality instruments coming out of Taiwan now. I don't believe any of the hype, however, and imagine they are merely competent as opposed to being anything radical.

[Gandalfe]

I buddy of mine played a Sugal S3 and sez that it would make a great backup horn. He is a Selmer freak but he sounds good on any of the ten or so horns I have heard him play in the last 6 months. He has done Keilwerths, Yamahas, and Selmers.

I just found out the wonky low end on my SDA is because my pads are going south. They want over $550 to replace them and I could get a Sugal for ~$900. Decisions, decisions.

[Gandalfe]

Update: So I talked to Gary Sugal and he is sending me his personal silver S3 tenor to try out. I will try to scare up some pro's to try it out too and report back. This should be fun.

[Gandalfe]

I received the Gary Sugal sax today and was very disappointed with the sax using my normal plubber, metal and the Super Gonz mouthpiece I that Gary sent. It didn't help that the horn needs the mouthpiece reciever cork replaced. :o(

I took the horn to my instructor and he had me try a couple of mouthpieces including a Otto Link Super Tone Master (contemporary). It was like playing a completely different horn. After my lesson I went home and traded fours with my son, very psyched about the new horn.

The fit and finish of the silver horn is nice. I had to get used to the keywork as I have been playing a Z alto for a while. But in one day, I was hitting the keywork pretty well for a rookie.

My instructor thought it was a fine horn too, especially for the price. I plan to have some others look at it too, but I suspect I'm gonna keep the Gary Sugal and sell the SDA. My instructor wants to see the SDA next week.

[Roadwearrior]

Gandalf - now that you've had the Sugal S3 for a few months, any further comments?

[Morry]

I have no respect for anyone who advertises a horn simply by saying "Bi-color sax". These things are right up there with that goofball that sells the "German guaranty" horns on ebay.

[Dr G]

I just found out the wonky low end on my SDA is because my pads are going south. They want over $550 to replace them and I could get a Sugal for ~$900. Decisions, decisions.

I hope your knees are in good shape 'cause you'll be kicking yourself for a long time if you sell that SBA. If it's mechanically sound, it's worth getting repadded.

[colibri]

Are you talking about a SDA as in Super Dynaction, or the Selmer SBA?

Either way, whichever one you have must be a good horn when it is set up right by a competent tech. In the long run I think you will enjoy it more than a Sugal.

[Dr G]

Are you talking about a SDA as in Super Dynaction, or the Selmer SBA?

Either way, whichever one you have must be a good horn when it is set up right by a competent tech. In the long run I think you will enjoy it more than a Sugal.

Oops and arggghhh. Thanks for catching my error, colibri! And, yes, I agree that either way, it'd be a shame to toss it away for a cheap, er, "inexpensive" imitation of a real saxophone.

[michaelbaird]

Always repad the old horn if it still plays well except for pads and adjustments. I don't plan on ever playing an Asian horn again. The have way to tinny of a sound and I'm not changing mouthpieces to try to pacify a crappy horn.

[Anonymous]

I contacted Mr. Sugal through an ebay auction. I asked if the horns were made in Taiwan or elsewhere. I asked how a Sugal horn differed from a Unison or Antigua Winds horn. The response is pasted in below and doesn't say where the horns are made (outside of the US) and as to differences, he pretty much just says they are "better" than other horns. Here is the response I got:

HI blaine,
Thank you for your kind interest..
We are manufacturing our own line of pro-saxes which are far superior than those firms you metnion....kindly review our ads and you'll notice that we furnished continueously various blue prints of specific items we want incorporated into the horns to our factory. These horns are our own design!
The horns are made outside the US and the bari sax you are interested in is strickly for a pro. Our prices are factory direct.
We ship these horns all over the world.
Please read our ebay feed back and what other customers have to say web page. If you are serious about purchasing a sax please do not hesitate to call me direclty at 401 751 2501 and I would be delighted to answer any other questions you may have.
Thanks
gs

[Morry]

Someone send him a spellchecker.

[Randall]

I was looking at the ebay auction for his "lighter" bari....then I got to the pix and it was a low Bb horn!
Is that how it is made lighter?! :roll: :?: :!: Just lop off the Low A? lol!

Or is it a narrower bore horn...somthing truly new?

I'm not being facetious here...I'd really like to know if it is something innovative or if it is just new-speak....

...like "pre-owned" car... :D

[Morry]

No, it's just a regular low Bb bari from what I can tell. He acts like he just invented that to "lighten up" the horn. Hilarious.

[singlereed]

Not 'new speak', more like 'bottom speak'. Even if not 'bottom-A speak' :lol:

[Runi]

I have no respect for anyone who advertises a horn simply by saying "Bi-color sax". These things are right up there with that goofball that sells the "German guaranty" horns on ebay.

To cut through the crap here; I own a Sugal Series III Tenor and the response and feel of this sax kicks asses of both my Reference 54 and YTS 62 (II). It`s actually a great sax and I paid practically nothing for it!
Although I don`t apreciate the looks of the octave-lifting mechanism. Looks cheap without a logo...

Runi :!:

[Thomas]

me thinks Runi another shill for gs
JUNK!

[Runi]

Well you´re wrong Thomas. I don`t know him. I didn`t even buy the sax directly from him. The only thing is I can try saxes without pre-judgement. Try one and you`ll see. I have the "brushed" finish one.

[Hiro]

I noticed some ppl really wanna know where it was made but why does it matter?
If you can't tell by playing if it's good or not, why does it matter where it was made?
You gotta play it.
That's what I think.

[Anonymous]

I noticed some ppl really wanna know where it was made but why does it matter?
If you can't tell by playing if it's good or not, why does it matter where it was made?
You gotta play it.
That's what I think.

That is true, you gotta play it -- but if I am going to order something to be shipped to me and I will have to pay the shipping both ways if I don't like it after I see and play it -- then I'm much more willing to gamble the shipping costs on a horn made in Taiwan than I am on a horn made in China.

[Gandalfe]

Another update. I kept the SDA and gave the Sugal to my fav student, my son. He is using the horn to gig with and his primary is a YAS 82Z. I never felt comfortable with the Sugal so I let it go.

After working on the SDA for more than a year with three different techs, I sold it to a fellow in France. I bought a YTS 62II that didn't work for me so I sent it back. I now have a YTS 82Z on the way. I hope this is the last tenor I buy.

[rbroderick]

I just saw where Sugal came out with a straight alto sax. Does anybody have any first hand knowledge of playing this horn or seeing it? Can anyone provide any information on this? I see this is a more reasonably priced alternative to the Keilwerth straight altos but need info first. Any help would be appreciated. Please just don't say it sucks but give me specifics as to why you feel the way you do.
Thanks

[singlereed]

Bearing in mind the specialised nature of a straight alto, I'd bet its from the same Taiwanese output as the Trevor James one, marketed here in the UK. I had a go on one, its a solid student level horn in quality of construction and sound, IMHO roughly the equivalent of a student Yamaha. It would be great if you want to look different on a budget but don't expect it to set the world alight. For a bit more cash, you could just about have a Keilwerth EX or a Yani 901 conventional shaped horn, which would play and sound a lot better. Remember, though, this is assuming the GS horn is the same thing - but I'd find it hard to believe more than one factory was turning those out.

[Hurling Frootmig]

It could be based on the same horn as the old LA Sax straight as well. If he has a straight tenor anytime soon then we'll probably have a better idea.

[Solid VI]

As a Mark VI loyalist for over 40 years of professional playing I decided to take a look at Gary Sugal's horns. I bought the Champagne and Purple People Eater Tenors and an Abe Lincoln... all copper alto.

These horns play folks! I mean, they really play. I found the left hand to be a little cramped but the projection of the horn is great and the responsivness of the keys is perfect. I love the PPE for its deep sound. This is the first enamaled horn I've tried and was very impressed. Then came the copper alto. Rape this in your gig arsanal and you're probably not going to stop gigging. I love this horn!
I'm keeping my '57 Mark VI tenor, my Model 26 alto and Mark VI Bari but I'll not say anything bad about Gary's horns. They are quality. That's only my opinion... an opinion that's been growing since 1963.
I'm looking forward to meeting him as well. From my dealings with this man I feel he is sincere and a good person to boot.

[J.Max]

As a Mark VI loyalist for over 40 years of professional playing I decided to take a look at Gary Sugal's horns. I bought the Champagne and Purple People Eater Tenors and an Abe Lincoln... all copper alto.

These horns play folks! I mean, they really play. I found the left hand to be a little cramped but the projection of the horn is great and the responsivness of the keys is perfect. I love the PPE for its deep sound. This is the first enamaled horn I've tried and was very impressed. Then came the copper alto. Rape this in your gig arsanal and you're probably not going to stop gigging. I love this horn!
I'm keeping my '57 Mark VI tenor, my Model 26 alto and Mark VI Bari but I'll not say anything bad about Gary's horns. They are quality. That's only my opinion... an opinion that's been growing since 1963.
I'm looking forward to meeting him as well. From my dealings with this man I feel he is sincere and a good person to boot.

Thanks Mr. Sugal! ;)

I owned one of Gary's horns. A Series III soprano. It was actually a good horn, and I preferred it over a couple of others I tried, but it was professionally set-up and repadded. There isn't much difference between these horns and the Antiguas of the world. They're fine, but Gary sells them for a ton more than Antigua, Kessler, or any of the others, and I've personally NOT had great dealings with him.

He did have an alto with some interesting keywork at one point. It had Mark VI-style keywork, which is unusual for the Taiwanese horns. I have no idea what it played like though.

[SaxJazz12]

I've never liked his mouthpieces much, but I own one of his sopranos and it gets the job done.

[HUTMO]

Beep Beeep Beep Beeep Beep Beeep

After four years this baby still has a pulse. Nice revival Mr Sugal.

HUTMO

[Datsaxguy]

I've owned both the tenor and alto Sugal's. They are nice horns for the price. I think I made a mistake selling the alto I had. The sound was a great fit for me. The action was not. I never liked the tenor, it was thin to me and I threw every mouthpiece I could at it. Nice horn for around 1500. If I was in the market for a horn I would probably try the Barone instead. Phil's necks probably bring the fatness to "those" horns that I could not get.

Datsaxguy

[Itsme]

I don’t know how his saxes play, but I do know that he is falsely advertising the silver ones. He is calling them “sterling” when they are only silver plated. The term “sterling” denotes a solid material such as was used with Silver Sonic bells. This misleading, deceptive practice has been pointed out to him, but he has not changed his ways. This makes you wonder about his integrity in general.