Who do you base your sound on?

[Rubel]

Hey guys. There is a thread under the Eb alto section called "Who is the best alto player" or something like that. After reading through it, I began to wonder "Do these guys sound like the guys they're mentioning?". Since I'm mostly a tenor player, I thought I'd ask this here: Who do you base your sound on? And is that person your favourite player?

I base my sound on Mike Murley, Branford Marsalis, and Wayne Shorter (from the Adam's Apple days). Most people who listen to me (if they know him) can tell I listen to a LOT of Mike.

Thanks!

[Bootman]

Check out some of the older masters too. Don't forget the history because it will help you understand many things.

[Rubel]

Oh, I definately listen to WAY more of the older guys than the guys I mentioned. I listen to TONS of Lestery Young, Dexter Gordon, and Sonny Rollins. I've done a few transcriptions from each of those guys. Last summer, there was a period of about 4 months where I listened to nothing but Lester. And a few months before that, same with Sonny. Dexter is who I'm listening to now, but I mostly want to sound like the three I mentioned earlier. I realise of course, that the people I mentioned listened to older guys.

Rubel

[Razzy]

I think you get a lot of tradition if you get most of your inspiration from contemporary players who have a lot of tradition in their playing. I really dig Chris Potter, more for ideas than sound, and Ravi Coltrane, more for sound than ideas. Other great tenor players that inspire me are Bob Mintzer, Dick Oatts, and Branford. My favorite old-timer is Hawk. I like to have some of that big FOOF in my sound sometimes :) and his ideas are so lyrical and developmental, definitely a good thing to try to pick up on. Local cats Chris Farr and Danny Muller are always giving me a good live sound to check out, and I love Adam Niewood's sound too, very lyrical, expressive playing.

[Bootman]

Try some Gene ammons, Zoot, Illinois Jacquet, Ben Webster, Al Cohn to name but a few.......

[Dog Pants]

I realise of course, that the people I mentioned listened to older guys.

Answered your own question! :)

Maybe it's just me, but usually, I'm not trying to replicate any particular player's tone when I play. There's girls/guys I admire enormously for their tone, and I listen to a lot of the older girls/guys of course. When I'm playing though, I'm most always chasing the voice in my head and that's enough to drive you to tears!!! :evil: :D
To clarify: I hear the song in my mind as I'm playing and hear/visualise a "character" singing out that tune. Doesn't matter whether it's a tune with words or an instrumental. That "character" might be a preacher shouting from the pulpit, if I'm playing a blues, for example.
This helps me get into a tune and play it with some feeling. The trouble with it, is that the "voice" that each particular "character" seems to pop into my mind with, isn't usually Dexter's, Sonny's, Jug's, Cleanhead's, or even Billie's, Sarah's or Nina's. It's a composite of bits of all of them and none of them in particular.
It's always the indescibeables, the intangeables that I'm chasing. A little more bittersweet humour here, a little vulnerability there.
The only way I have found to effectively practice this, is to forget about all the "big names" sounds, and just try to hit ONE note of the tune, the way I hear it in my mind. I get it wrong and try it again and again, just trying to get that one note. If I get that, I try for one phrase. Sometimes I get lucky and and it all just flows out the horn. Just like I heard it in my mind. Magic!!! Worth another couple of months practice, trying to make it happen again. :)

[Razzy]

Amen Dogpants! I don't go so far as preachers and pulpits, but I get the drift ;) It's also one thing to be inspired, and another thing to copy. Somewhere in between is probably the best form of study... transcribing and building vocabulary based off of some great players.

[BayviewSax]

I don't consciously attempt to sound like anyone. I listen to a WIDE variety of players. I love the sounds of Dexter, Booker Ervin, Stanley Turrentine, Coltrane, particularly '61-'66, Jug, Harold Land, and Clifford Jordan, to name a few. Tonally, the person I most sound like is probably Pharoah Sanders of the late 70s (which I'm VERY cool with). I've never tried to cop anybody's sound (maybe for a phrase here or there), rather just let it develop on its own.

[BlueNote]

On tenor- a mix between Mike Brecker and Dexter Gordon... and Coleman Hawkins/Ben Webster/Lester Young/etc.

On alto- a mix between Jeff Clayton, Kenny Garrett, and Sonny Stitt.

On soprano- smooth like Branford Marsalis.

But I listen to dozens of different saxophonists, so I am not prone to one sound.

[thehighend]

Try some Gene ammons, Zoot, Illinois Jacquet, Ben Webster, Al Cohn to name but a few.......

If you like Gene Ammons, then you simply must hear Houston Person. I learned about Person through a fellow who was a big fan of both these guys. He told me that if I thought Ammons was good, then I would love Houston Person, and he was certainly right. Houston Person defines the tenor tone I'll always be striving for.

[sweetsax]

definelty Dexter Gordon. Not that I think I'll ever be mistaken for him, but he's absolutely my favorite tenor player ever. I try to emulate the way he phrases things.

[Bootman]

Dog pants has siad it well, others have stated it too. You will need to develop your own sound, you can take elements from the past masters but in the end you will have your own sound. Striving to sound like another player is a recipe for frustration and a waste of time. You will eventually work out that your own sound is determined by your facial structure, vocal and sinus cavity, mpc and reed choice, choice of horn and even down to how much playing you have done.

My real advice would be not to worry too much about it but rather concentrate on developing your ideas and developing your own voice. Try singing your ideas and then play them.

[IBSmiester]

On Tenor - John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Joe Henderson, Eric Dolphy (transposing his style)
On Alto - Eric Dolphy, Ornette Coleman, Jackie McLean
On Soprano (don't play this one much) - John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter

[Dave]

I have found that the only person I can sound like is "me." I've tried different mps. and different styles, but found that if you really want to sound like someone else you can copy their set-up but you need their lungs on your horn. I started to improve when I started to just do what I can do,,,, better. The search for that "holy grail" sound and mp. would take too long and was too expensive. If you don't believe me, talk to my wife. Just give me alittle reverb on the mic.

Blessings to you,

Dave

[frasermanx]

Yeah ... I was walking the other night playing my MP3 player (generic cheapy) of SG ... and the thought came to me .. that he must LOVE his playing ...every note is individual and coloured "Ebb Tide" must be heard !!

I now have him memorized in my mind to play anytime

.. yup Murley, Dexter, are great ... fortunately I can see MM often in the Toronto area .. just a few weeks ago in fact ... I like the way he changed his sound

Frz in Toronto

[Razzy]

That's true Dave, but even pro players are heavily influenced by the sounds of other players and in many cases, copied them in the beginning. A fine example is the recording of Coltrane on alto, often mistaken for a young bird. Sonny Stitt and others are obviously influenced by Bird in their sound. It IS possible to change your sound, through listening to, transcribing, and playing along with a player, and I don't think that some emulation should be discounted in terms of progressing toward your sound. If you like it, emulate it for a while and try to add it to your sound... that's what the pros did and do. After you've done this a few times, you're not going to be mistaken for any of those players (hopefully!) because you've probably installed many varying concepts into your playing, bringing you closer to what is ultimately "you".

Tenor player Odean Pope did a clinic at my school. Tim Price and others will tell you, this guy is the real deal. He does an exercise on tenor called "Coltrones", use your imagination :) Rich Perry of the Vanguard orchestra also did a clinic and recommended copying one long tone of a player whose sound you love and trying to take that sound all over the horn... then doing it the next week with another player.

So I guess good advice could be... yes, don't be a "copy" when you play, but when you study, copy all you can and from many sources! We do it subconsciously and undergo a slow process of mimicing the sounds we hear, so we might as well come out with it and tackle it consciously, too, to exercise some control over the direction our sound moves in.

[saxymanzach]

don't be a "copy" when you play, but when you study, copy all you can and from many sources! We do it subconsciously and undergo a slow process of mimicing the sounds we hear, so we might as well come out with it and tackle it consciously, too, to exercise some control over the direction our sound moves in.

Well said. Personally: lately I have been studying Frank Foster on his album Leo Rising. I don't think it is too well known, I found it by mistake, but it is worth buying. I hadn't heard him outside of the basie band, but he is really amazing!

[BlueNote]

Foster was one of my earliest inspiriations. Hell of a sound!

[GAS_Wyo]

I guess I 'study' the styles of those I listen to most....I love Jay Breckenstein on the Alto and Tenor. I also loved the smooth style of Grover Washington.

(I realize I'm giving you guys a chance to rib me pretty hard)

[Rubel]

Frasermanx: Are you Fraser Calhoun? Just wondering, because there can't be THAT many Frasers in Toronto that play sax. Not like Dave or Mike.

Rubel

[CMelodyMan]

I base my sound on some of the older jazz master( Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins,) as well as Rollins, Trane, and Stan Getz.

[IBSmiester]

I think once someone listens to a lot of different players in different styles and music in general, they will, both with or without their own knowledge, take these different aspects that they hear and bring them together with their own emotions, ideas and feelings to create their own sound. Your playing is an extension of all of your experiences, including, if not especially, the music you have exposed yourself to. It's not copying unless you are deliberately trying to copy, which is fine for practice purposes, but eventually you discover the sound you want and you can create it. At least, that's how I see it.

[DePurpereWolf]

Those players do sound great, but I also like to listen to guitar players from the 80's, you know, the solo guitarists of those great rock-bands.

I'm not a fan of the guitar, but sometimes (when I'm sick of listening too much Jazz) I wish I could play my sax as a guitar.

Including flashy spandex pants + hairy chest.

[CircaRevival]

I base my sound on the the same people as Razzy mentioned (Sonny, Prez, and Dex). I have listened to a heck of a lot of tenor players, so like BlueNote said, "I'm not prone to one sound".

[frasermanx]

I say you all should listen to Steve Grossman and Michel Petrocianni ... Ebb Tide etc. -- masterful

[Dave Dolson]

Sidney Bechet, Johnny Dodds, Johnny Hodges. DAVE

[frasermanx]

After enjoying the Avant Garde, Free Jazz, Coltrane, Bird, BiBop, big band, ... I find the sax as ballad instrument as expressive and satisfying as a master poet reading his works ... think of James Joyce ... each word sound has many shadings that can be heard, discerned and savoured ...

Steve Grossman I find the top of the "ballad" list .. altho I am anxious to hear of others .. that the list may recommend ... ?

I put SG on top of Coltrane, Dexter ... for ballads

thx
Frz

[sycc]

check out allen eager;awesome smooth dark tenor sound;played w/ gerry mulligan on mulligan plays mulligan

[BlueNote]

Ben Webster, Lester Young, and Dexter Gordon are my favorites to listen to for ballads... and definately Trane off the album he did with Ellington ("My Little Brown Book" = the best).

It really depends what kind of mood I am aiming for.

[zach ferguson]

Lester Young and Jimmy Forrest.

[Darkstar]

Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, and Joshua Redman, on the other side of things I like Michael Brecker alot too...

[heath]

Dexter Gordon and Coltrane have always been in the back of my mind when playing.

[pepper]

i wouldn't go so far as to say i base my sound on anyone altogether, although if pushed probably a mixture of Ben Webster (for tone), Pres (for swing) and Art Pepper (for feeling) would be close.

i hasten to add that i dont play anywhere remotely as good as those three, but as a reference its probably as near as any.

[Saxn]

I'm with pepper. I know what I like, but can't say that I base my sound on anyone but me. Now as far as who's sound that approaches -- hmmm... let me think -- probably Sonny Rollins' tone and (an attempt at) Adderly-like phrasing would be the closest.

[larry]

It all depends on whom I'm listening to at the moment! :D

Really - I go through phases where I'll be listening to a lot of Ben Webster, and all I want to do is play soft subtone vibratos, then I'll put on a Coltrane album and play nothing but loud tritones for a week! Bayview turned me onto Bluiett last year and I was intolerable for about a month!

The guy who's style haunts me is Dex (see avatar). I love how he plays out of "official" tune, but still manages to nail the emotional intonation right on (check out "As Time Goes By" from The Other Side of Round Midnight - how does he DO that?!) That and I totally dig how he can play gently and powerfully at the same time on his ballads. The paradoxes make the sound for me.

I don't see anything wrong with trying to emulate a guy's sound, for educational purposes only! It's like reading transcriptions - everyone's got something different to offer - there's nothing wrong with trying on a different set of clothes to see if you like the look.

[cleger]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Joe Henderson yet, unless I missed it. For my ideal combination of tone and phrasing, he is who I would most like to emulate. Those who have heard my clips know that wanting to sound like Joe and sounding like Joe are two very different things :D .

[kevvieg]

I just have a sound in my head, though it's not hard to hear who my influences are. When I was younger, I tried to sound like Phil Woods, and everybody complimented me on how well I had absorbed cannonball's thing. (I hadn't even checked him out much at that point). Somebody once described my tenor sound as " Al Cohn on steroids". I really love Stitt, but haven't tried to copy him, yet I've heard that comparison too.

My favourite players are as divergent as Getz & Brecker; Bartz & Woods; Mulligan & Brignola. In the end, I think I come out of a Nistico/ Woods/ Brignola approach, but with fewer chops :-)

[Honeyboy]

With Jazz I think I like Dexter Gordon, Lester Young, Ben Webster, the latter two being my two earliest influences, but I mostly play Rhythm and Blues stuff, so I'd have to say King Curtis, Jr. Walker, Jimmy Forrest, Syl Austin, Hal Singer, Sam Butera and Boots Randolf. You can hear a little bit of all these guys in my tone and phrasing. Non sax influence is Louis Armstrong- especially his older stuff from the 20's. I used to copy his solos with my old Borgani soprano.

[super20dan]

boots randolf

[baylistenor]

I think Grossman is great.On that same CD with Petruciani check Song for my Mother- a great passionate performance

[frasermanx]

Yes SGrossman with Petrocianni - any!! .. I also enjoy very much Ben Webster for that smooth romantic blow

thanks

[azahurak]

Tenor - Lenny Pickett and Brecker. I still think of Dex though when I am looking for pure jazz tone

[clem]

Ever heard Bobby Forte? Or Andrew Love? These were the sidemen who did most of the fine R&B solos over the years for B B King, Bobby Bland, Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett, and many others. I'm sure that I learned a lot about tenor sound from their solos because I heard them over and over again.

Also David Newman with Ray Charles, Lee Allen with Little Richard, King Curtis with The Coasters, and Boots Randolph with just about anybody: they all pretty much established what R&R and R&B tenor should sound like.

[rabbit]

My secret shame:

I can't overcome the damage of childhood overexosure to
Daffy Duck.

[clem]

Daffy rabbit--

I hear adolescent psychologists say that conditions such as yours are untreatable. Just get over it.

But I personally experienced enlightenment while listening to The Doobie Brothers' "One Step Closer" with Cornelius Bumpus on tenor.

--Clem

[rabbit]

clem,

Memory fails me (not unusual) re: this cut. I'll be sure to
take a dose soon. Thanks for the heads up. Till then,
I'm not answering Oprahs calls!

rabbit

[J.Max]

OK...

I base my sound on Eugene Rousseau for classical playing...

I'd love to say I sound like Lenny Pickett for contemporary music, but I always end up sounding like Eric Marienthal or Dave Koz...

[playitfunky]

i just sound like me and live with it.

[Dog Pants]

i just sound like me and live with it.

I think you're on the right track here funky man. This thread has turned into "name your favouite player." Nothing wrong with that but I find it far more effective to listen, not only to the "sound" of the players I admire, but also to try and get a handle on the emotional state that those players are trying to convey. For me it's just as much a case of "who's telling the story?" Is it someone happy, sad, whimsical, angry, etc...
Rather than approach things purely in terms of a sound that I'm trying to impersonate by playing horn X, with mouthpiece Y, ligature W and Z reed. The sound tells a story, or paints a picture. I work on my sound, but I'm just as concerned with developing the bends, scoops, slides, vibrato etc, that tell a story. All the stuff that even the most expensive or arcane setup won't do for me.
Copying great singers and trying to match the inflections and colours they use to add meaning and weight to a phrase, is a very humbling experience.
DP

[WillieB]

I also enjoy very much Ben Webster for that smooth romantic blow.

What was his setup - a tree trunk on a Link 101?

There are so many tenor sounds that I love - Webster as well, Young, Zoot and of course, Getz. The four of these guys sound distinctly different to me, but I love listening to all of them. I like Peplowski's sound (on clarinet as well), Marsalis, Scott Hamilton and Turrentine.

...But I don't want to sound like any of them, and don't think I could if I tried. Sound of self is so arbitrary and personal, different ears hear different things. I really like my sound on alto, and never had to fuss with it much (Meyer 7M with Medium LaVoz or Vandoren 3s always worked). Years of clarinet playing worked well for me in that regard, I believe. I haven't had the same luck on tenor, so I don't know when the sound will be right for me. But at least I'll know it when I hear it ;).

[58tenor]

Nothin' better than a smooth romantic blow:D

[Dog Pants]

Nothin' better than a smooth romantic blow:D

Easy fellas, there are ladies present. :shock:

[Al Stevens]

Well. this sure ain't "name my favorite player." It's probably something bordering on narcissism, though.

I came to tenor after decades playing the trumpet. I learned sax basics from a teacher and screwed around with horns, mpcs, and reeds until I found a tone close to what I like.

Now, my objective is to be able to play lines on tenor that I can play on trumpet. So, I am emulating myself. Some things are different, because the ergonomics of the two horns are different and the natural ranges are different, but mostly I am trying to play like me. :D

It doesn't hurt that for years I listened mostly to tenor players and know who I admire. I'd like to swing like Dexter, have ideas like Zoot, and blow Ben's subtones. So those are my somewhat vague objectives for sometime after I can get around the horn like I want to.

[Ike Webkins]

For my tone references, please just see my signature;)

Otherwise, Coltrane, Getz, Gordon, Rollins, etc. are great! and I love Michael Brecker (alongwith his brother) on the "your latest trick" tune, Brother in arms album from Dire Staits, or the nice solo in "Urgent" from the Foreigners...

On Bary : Mulligan of course :shock: (even if I don't play bary)

Ike

[jaysne]

I have always loved Flip Phillips, and have transcribed several of his solos and learned them. So I guess I try to sound like him--but folks have told me I sound like Stan Getz instead. Oh well, geez, I guess I'll just have to accept that!

[Minatar12]

Don't often play jazz on tenor, but when I do there's no one I try to emulate more than the great Sam Rivers.

[ssleb]

I like to try to sound like Coleman Hawkins in terms of tone, with the ease and style of Sonny Rollins, and the insanity and eccentricity of Joshua Redman. I play tenor by the way.

[Mike Danger]

Stan Getz, Dexter Gordon, Coleman hawkins and Of course Scott Hamilton :)

[Peter342]

For Tenor:Booker Ervin( The Mingus Years,still need to hear his solo work), Joe Henderson, Lester Young, and Coleman Hawkins.

For Soprano: Sidney Bechet, John Coltrane, and Steve Lacy.

[BlueSapphire]

i try to sound better than my brother and i do so i'm loving it:D

[Roger Aldridge]

Charlie Mariano has been a big influence on my tonal conception of the saxophone.

Beyond that, purely in terms of SOUND (not style), I've taken a different approach in developing the saxophone sound that I now have. I didn't model my sound on any particular player....even though I have a very long list of saxophone heroes. Instead, I spent several years exploring the tonal qualities of different horns and mouthpieces. That is, I got into exploring sound itself without thinking about other players. Importantly, I had no end goal in mind. I was simply curious and I kept an open mind with this discovery process.

In the course of my search I discovered that there is something about a vintage Buescher that gets me really excited. I then focused on trying various Buescher models and settled on the New Aristocrat. After that, I spent a period of time exploring the tonal qualities of the New Aristocrat with different mouthpieces. I finally settled on a mouthpiece that Ralph Morgan made for me (special order) that has an especially large round chamber and a small amount of rollover baffle. It seems to me that this mouthpiece really brings out the unique tonal qualities of a New Aristocrat. This particular combination of mouthpiece and horn gives me a quality of sound that I've never experienced before with other horns.

Personally, I don't think that I would have discovered this type of sound if I had modeled my sound after one of my heroes...as I had done in the past.

Roger

[Jolle]

My sound is based on the instruments I play together with : two electric guitars, an accordeon, an electric bass, a drum and a trumpet.

First goal : CUTTING THROUGH. I have to be sharp and edgy enough to be audible

Second goal based on the music we play : adding a feel of "joy joy", so cutting trough is not supposed to be the soundtrack of the chainsaw massacre.

third goal based on the horrifying idea of being too monotone : variations in the tonality, bending notes, and expanding the range of cutting through from cutting with a feather to ... OK, I admit, the chainsaw massacre.

forth goal based on my fixation on low notes : expanding the range of volume from hardly audible subtone to steamboat in a full storm

This all results in a tone that can be described as rather sharp with a dark edge, a bit mellow at times and always fixated towards the lower harmonics.

NOT the kind of sax playing you like in your smooth jazz ensemble :D

[FireRescueFL]

Jerry Bergonzi. Dark but still with plenty of edge.

---Chris

[Off-kilter]

I'm always just looking for different colours that come out of my horn that I like and then try to play with them and make it part of my vocabulary, went my own way never even thinking of trying to sound like anyone in particular. UNTIL....I played Joe Sample's disc 'OldPlaces,Old Faces", with Charles Lloyd. Stopped me dead in my tracks with envy. What a sound, like a brontosaurus mating call!And his musical conception, never predictable and yet he's not so out there that you can't follow. The three tunes he plays on are just programed to play over and over ( have been for weeks now ). I guess all that's happened is now my search for my sound is focussed. I'll never sound quite like that but I'll enjoy the trip trying to get there.

[Zvanen]

John Coltrane, Lenny Picket, and Michael Brecker. Coltranes sound is the number 1 favorite... ''Say it(over and over again)''...