Gretsch America

[mwaller]

I am trying to find out about a sax that belonged to my mother. The following is all the information on the instrument:

Gretsch America

S/N # 9681

[alyankee]

From what I've seen, the Gretsch woodwinds were all stencils, and usually pretty good ones. I've seen Gretsch saxes that were Bueshers, Conns, and even LeBlancs.

[zrice03]

Gretsch saxophones were actually made by Holton. Based on your serial number I can tell you that your sax was made in 1910. I have one myself that was made in 1921. I can't remember the site I found this at, but you can just run a search on "frank holton" and there will be a site that lists the serial numbers from 1 (in 1901), up until the point they were bought by LeBlanc.

[HonestLiar]

There is a Gretsch alto on eBay Germany right now where it is claimed that it's a Martin stencil. Can this be true? And if so which Martin model would it correspond to?

The serial is 176796 and the engraving on the bell reads: The GREAT GRETSCH AMERICAN.

[HonestLiar]

I forgot the link:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2552084727&category=23 298&rd=1
There are many pictures of the horn there.

[rrex54]

Yes, the Gretsch on eBay is clearly a Martin -- and a very pretty one at that! Note the beveled edge on the tone holes. I have seen several Martin-made Gretsch's. However, Buescher, Conn, and Holton all seem to have made horns for the company at one time or another, as well.

mwaller, Post a picture or two of your Gretsch here -- or go to my profile and send it privately and I will see if I can help further.

[goodsax]

There's a Gretsch stencil by Buescher on eBay now that has an extensive write-up by the seller at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2557975314&category=16 232&rd=1 and it looks pretty decent. How naive would it be to assume that, since it was made by the Buescher people, it might be closely comparable to Aristocrats of that same period?

[Stencilman]

So far, all of the Buescher stencils I've seen are more akin to the student model Elkhart. I have no less than 5 of these particular stencils, all altos, waiting to be refurbished. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that the Gretsch falls into that category. On all of my stencils, the key guards and engraving are different but everything else is identical.

[goodsax]

Thanks, stencilman. If anyone should know, it's you. That's a big help!
8)

[rrex54]

From my knowledge of this seller he is both knowledgeable and honest about his work and the instruments. He has always felt that the Aristocrat stencils are essentially early Aristocrats without snaps and Nortons (as stated in the description).

If you're interested in the horn, I would question him about the exact nature of the sound differences he noted between the Gretsch and Aristocrat and how heavy the metal is in the Gretsch. If he is correct about the dating, I would guess that this may be a a horn that would rival the early Aristocrats for a lot less.

BTW I do not know if the numbers on the neck are the same for the stencils and the early 'crats. However, I have seen Mark Aronson comment that for the "transitional" period Aristocrats (with split bell keys) #3 necks were considered the best overall. The #1 had the best intonation, but greater resistance.

[Stencilman]

I looked through my pile of Buescher stencils this weekend I saw that I have two "Elkhart - Made by Buescher", two "FE Olds Ambassador" and one "Great Gretsch American". The bodies and keywork are essentially identical. Only the key guards are different. I don't have an Aristocrat to compare these to, but pictures indicate that the keywork is different than the Aristocrat's.

I don't have too much experience with Bueschers, but I'm still believing that these "student" Buescher-made stencils will turn out sounding somewhat like the top end models that Buescher was producing at that time. One can dream, right? :-)

[goodsax]

Thanks rrex and stencilman for your informative responses. I'm liking this Gretsch more and more. The seller does seem to be very knowledgeable and forthright and he does have a 48 hour satisfaction guarantee return policy that indicates confidence in his items.

Decisions! Decisions! Decisions!

By the end of the day, I may be waiting for my Gretsch to be shipped.

Thanks again,

[Stencilman]

After looking at the pics of your sax, I can say that it is NOT like any of my stencils. The body looks similar but the keywork is different. My stencils have no G# trill key and a different shaped G# spatula. Anyway, I hope you get the sax and that it turns out to be aewsome.

[goodsax]

Well, I'm getting closer to going for it. I just sent the seller an email and when I get a response, just may do the dirty deed. I sure hope this is the end of my quest. It sure will be different from anything I've tried before.

Thanks again,
Rob

[goodsax]

Update: I did it. They're going to ship the Gretsch tomorrow and I should have it in about a week. I just hope they get her out of there before Isabel hits. The sellers are in Norfolk, VA, one of the possible targets - about 30% chance - of Isabel. I hope they don't have to suffer the full force of that monster.

[soreliprick]

For what its worth: I've got a WmFrank Buescher stencil 20A alto and a Big B that have both been overhauled and I find they are quite similar in sound and metal quality. The Big B may have a slight edge on tone down low but I'd be satisfied with either one. I'd bet your Gretch is a winner!

[rrex54]

Congrats, Rob. Let us know how you like it.

As for Isabel, she's currently making her way dead on for the little burgh I currently call home. If she comes as expected, she'll mess up Hatteras Island pretty badly, steam across the Pamlico Sound, up the Alligator River -- and I'll be able to wave from here. I'll send her your regards!

Meantime, it's axes to higher ground!