Some questions Dave?

[jld621]

I have a Keilworthst90IV now. I have recently started plalying again after many years off. I want to up grade to a better more "sound" horn. Not literally in tone etc. How does your Kessler custom alto compare to the Jupiter 869/969 or the yas 475? Thanks. Jim

[DaveKessler]

Jim,

Sorry for the late reply but I just saw this.

Depends on who you ask but I obviously prefer my own horn, which is why I dont stock the Jupiters anymore. Also I am not a huge fan of the Yamaha because I feel it is too expensive for how it plays.

To be honest, I do feel that my horns outplay both, but I am a wee bit biased. Best recommendation is to try one.

Dave

[francobolognese]

This is strange! I have a yamaha 62 1 tenor that outplay nearly every sax.
You can get one for $1000 if you look well.

And a mister Kessler says his horns are better. Don't believe it.
Look likes the man wanna sell his horns. Never seen a prof. musician with
a Kessler horn her in Europe.

[DaveKessler]

This is strange! I have a yamaha 62 1 tenor that outplay nearly every sax.
You can get one for $1000 if you look well.

And a mister Kessler says his horns are better. Don't believe it.
Look likes the man wanna sell his horns. Never seen a prof. musician with
a Kessler horn her in Europe.

Wow. First, I am glad that you like your 62. They are good horns. But I keep the 62 alto in stock at my store for people to compare. Frankly, they ALL have picked either my horn or a Yanagisawa 901 over the 62. So my statement was based on that, nothing else.

If someone wanted to compare my horn to the 901, then I ALWAYS recommend to them the 901. So I am not strictly trying to sell my horn here.

Secondly, dude, my reputation around here will also stand for itself. Please be a little more careful when lashing out at someone you do not know.

As for my horns in Europe, you are correct that you will not see them out there since I have only had the line out for not even a full year and that I sell direct, therefor there are no dealers in Europe.

Have a nice day. :)

[gary]

As for my horns in Europe, you are correct that you will not see them out there since I have only had the line out for not even a full year and that I sell direct, therefore there are no dealers in Europe.
Really. One doesn't see a lot of Dutch-made Top Tone saxophones in the US either. Doesn't make them bad.

[Jorns Bergenson]

And a mister Kessler says his horns are better. Don't believe it...(blah, blah)Man, that's pretty rude to 1) butt-in on a question that was not directed to you, 2) accuse someone you do not know of simply trying to push their wares (Dave Kessler has been an outstanding contributer to this forum for 3 years and is about the nicest guy you could ever meet) and 3) to diss a product you have never played and yet has had excellent reviews. He did nothing to deserve that.

Sorry, but that was just uncalled for.

[francobolognese]

The way you people react says it all. To say some unknown horn is better than Yamaha or even the Jupiter horns is just a overblown reaction.
Period. Grow up and don't react as if i want to offend someone. That's out of the question. It's commen sense that yamaha's are better than some horn seller in the States say his horns are better. Why don't you guys all play Kesser horn? And wasn't it mr Kessel who says his horn were better. It's a joke to find your horn better then those of large respected companies like Yamaha or even Jupiter. I'll hope someone understands this! And if Kessler horns are that good i wanna meet him at the Frankfurter Messe this year and try out a soprano than we can talk. I look forward to this meeting.

[GHawk]

Grow up and don't react as if i want to offend someone.

If the shoe fits......:x

Well, what do I know about common sense? I sold a Selmer soprano to buy an Antigua...go figure.

[Jerry K.]

It's commen sense that yamaha's are better than some horn seller in the States say his horns are better. Why don't you guys all play Kesser horn? If the choice were Yamaha or Kessler we probably all would.:twisted:

Really, I think we are talking about which horn sounds better, has a more complex and big tone, rather than which is a better made horn. Most people acknowledge that Yamaha has a reputation for making well made horns that are very consistent, and have good ergos and intonation. A lot of people also describe their sound as generic and inflexible. I am in this group and prefer a number of brands over Yamaha, including what I play, a B&S. As for the Kessler house brand, buyers here seem to post very positive reviews and I've never heard of anyone having a problem with Dave or his horns.

[fballatore]

Grow up and don't react as if i want to offend someone.
People react to you as if you were offending someone because you did. I find your arrogant, pompous attitude insulting. Dave said that he personally feels that his horns outplay Yamaha and Jupiter, but also admitted that he is biased in the matter. He also suggested that jld621 try them both and come to his own conclusions. For you to come here as someone who has never even seen a Kessler horn and make a judgement is a joke.

And by the way, I'm one of the biggest Yamaha fans out there.

And they call us Americans arrogant and rude. Sheesh.

[SAXISMYAXE]

Francobolognese,
Diversity of constructive opinions is certainly allowed within the forums here, the attitude and inflammatory tone isn't. Consider this a warning to play nice and be a gentleman.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I agree with saxismyaxe on this one. Civil discourse is always appreciated on the forum and I would appreciate it as well if this thread went back to a higher level of discussion.

I will say this about Dave Kessler - in my dealings with him he has been a top notch guy. A couple of years ago or more I purchased a vintage Yani alto from him and the transaction was flawless.

I will make on final observation. There's always a distinct possibility that if you play some of the house brand horns in the Netherlands that you may in fact encounter something similar to what Dave carries for his house brand. I have no first hand knowledge of his suppliers but I am guessing that in the global economy that they may deal with shops in Europe as well as the U.S.

[Dave Dolson]

I'm glad I saw the moderators weigh in before I clicked the little "offensive" button at the top of "franco . . .'s" post.

For what it is worth to "franco . . .", I'm one who bought a Kessler Custom saxophone. It resides with my vintage Bueschers and Selmers, a modern Selmer, three Yanagisawas, and an Antigua (purchased from Dave Kessler, as was my ref 54 alto). DAVE

[saxmanglen]

If the shoe fits......:x

Well, what do I know about common sense? I sold a Selmer soprano to buy an Antigua...go figure.

Will Rogers (famous American) once said, "Common sense isn't so common". I guess that statement may apply to the Netherlands too. :shock:

[dharma]

I asked a few months ago about sources for instruments. I noted "no Kessler" because Dave did not respond to my numerous emails. While a couple of posters actually answered my question (sources of instruments) most chose to flame me about my dealings with Dave. Dave offered his version, some reasons, and a sort of apology. Fine, we move on.
I attempted recently to try Dave again. No reponse.
I've sold thousands of dollars of instruments and plan to multiply that many times in the cominng years. I look for the best instruments for the best price to meet my customer's needs. I also look for the best sources of information not only for myself but for my customers.
I stopped using or recommending SOTW some time ago in part because of the myopic love affair the regular posters have with Kessler. Dave probably sells a good product. Don't know because I haven't been able to buy any of his instruments. But I look for more balanced and broad opinions as well as useful information. Hard to find on SOTW.
BTW, Yamaha may be moving to a fixed retail price shortly (heard at the NAMM show). No MAP, no discounts. Apparently their lawyers think it will fly. Don't think it will get by anti-trust laws but look out.

[gary]

I agree with most of the negative reaction to FG's post but I would ask that we don't get into a nationality thing. The Dutch are some of the most non-offensive folks you'll ever meet.

Regarding dharma's criticisms of SOTW as a myopic place that he doesn't recommend..why are you posting here, then? Just a question.

[Dave Dolson]

Dharma: One of the reasons so many of us speak well of Dave Kessler and his business is because we've had numerous contacts with him, in person and over the phone. And, he is a site sponsor.

What have YOU done to support SOTW besides post 10 times? Many of us have bought the SOTW offerings or directly sent cash to Harri to help him run this operation.

Dave Kessler has admitted being a weak e-mail person. Those of us who know him and/or have dealt with him know this and make the effort to call him on the phone - or visit his store. Believe me, it is worth the effort.

Myopic? Hardly. I too have spent thousands of dollars buying sax-stuff over the years and I trade at many locations and over the Internet. Much depends on what I'm after and convenience. I've not only touted Kessler's, but Scimonetti's and Baxter-Northrup in L.A., WW&BW, USAHorn, Matthews Music and Saxofoonwinkel for Internet sources, to name some businesses who I believe are reputable. DAVE

[thehighend]

I stopped using or recommending SOTW some time ago in part because of the myopic love affair the regular posters have with Kessler.

Did you ever stop to think for a moment, and realize that such so-called "love affairs" do not happen magically and overnight? They happen for a reason. I purchased my first sax from Dave less than a month ago. Before he shipped me the horn, he tried to advise me to consider a *less* expensive horn. How common is that?

I also almost purchased a horn from Dave over a year ago. I spoke with him on the phone back then and he offered to send me two alto saxes. After I received and played them, I realized that neither was precisely what I was looking for, so I called him up again and he said I should simply return them to him. I did so, and he provided a full refund, including the original shipping costs. (Aside: that is simply being too nice... you have to stay afloat, Dave!)

If, as you say, many SOTW have a "love affair" with Dave Kessler, then it is not due to some random cosmic irregularity. There is good reason for it.

Conversely, if SOTW members do not have a love affair with dharma, then there is probably good reason for that also.

[DaveKessler]

dharma,

Hey, sorry that I was off yesterday and spent the time with my 2 boys instead of replying to your e-mail yesterday (btw, I did reply this morning prior to even logging on to the forum). Your 1st e-mail was at 5:19pm my time on Wed and 2nd at 9:55am Thurs. Well, I did check my e-mails on Wed evening right before I had to leave and was not able to reply to all of them right away. As for Thursday's e-mail, sorry, I was off.

Hey, I am also sorry that people recommend me so much that it has made you not want to post here.

If you want to get into a flame war here, I can but I would choose not to. I am sorry that I cant answer ever e-mail instantaneously. Should I hire another person to take up some of the slack for me, possibly, but at the same time, finding someone qualified enough to do so as well as computer literate enough is tough in this city. And since your e-mails were directed to me specifically, then that wouldnt have helped anyways.


-To Everyone Else-

Sorry this thread evolved the way it did. The world is a fun place, isn't it?

[Grumps]

All particulars aside, in a strictly general sense, it's probably not a good idea to ask a dealer who doesn't play saxophone to recommend a horn he sells. As a general rule, I don't think anybody could reasonably disagree with this maxim.

Now in this particular case, there are plenty of folks who've played the horns mentioned in the original question. Some have made their opinions known, and they are the ones who should have been asked in the first place. It would have certainly avoided the type of problem that presented itself here.

[rispoli]

And a mister Kessler says his horns are better. Don't believe it.
Look likes the man wanna sell his horns.


Actually he just replied to a question he was asked, he did not jump in to sell his instruments.

While you may have legitimate doubts about his instruments being better or same as Yamahas (and even if they get close to those you may want to consider that they cost half of them), your negative attitude towards him looks to me unjustified.

[retromom]

And if Kessler horns are that good i wanna meet him at the Frankfurter Messe this year and try out a soprano than we can talk. I look forward to this meeting.

I feel sure that "mister Kessler" looks foreword to it too because without the upcoming proposed meeting Kessler and sons music store will go out of business :evil: :twisted: . he NEEDS your approval :) :)
People react to you as if you were offending someone because you are- your post was both rude and offensive.

[Hurling Frootmig]

francobolognese,

Why didn't you just hook up with Dave at NAMM?

[abbedd]

In this crazy business, I find Dave Kessler to be one the honest people. This business needs more like him.


Abbedd

[candiceartisan]

I spoke with Dave Kessler for the first time today. Even though he didn't have the sax I was looking for, he took a lot of his time helping and advising me. He never rushed me at all and was very polite.
Candy

[francobolognese]

Once again i never wanted to be rude to mr Kessler in person or what so ever. I only stated that Kessler saxophone are not better than Yahama's and rarely or never seen in Europe. If they were better the whole world was playing on them, like on Yamaha saxes. That's all! And i also said that a horn as the 62 series 1 is still one of the best horns i have ever played and i've played several dozen of horns. For me this discussion is closed. Thank you all!

[Hurling Frootmig]

I think you missed my point.

Essentially, we know Dave is probably not going to Europe anymore than you are going to NAMM in the U.S.

There's a host of saxophones available worldwide that come from similar sources that Dave Kessler is probably sourcing his that continue to impress players. Check the archives for specific examples.

I'm glad you like your 62. They can be quite nice horns; however, there are a lot of nice horns out there that are easily on par with the 62 in the new market. I personally really like the Yanagisawa 901's as an alternative or their more expensive big brother the 991. I've thought about picking one of those up as a backup to my five digit VI.

[jld621]

Dave, since I am the one who started this thread I want to apologize for starting a firestorm. I appreciate your answer and your quick reply to my email that I sent to you after I had posted this. I was saasking about the yas 475 not the 62, but I was more concerned with the quality compared to my ST90IV. Anyway thank you and As far as I am concerned you were strictly professional and appropriate. Jim

[DaveKessler]

Dave, since I am the one who started this thread I want to apologize for starting a firestorm. I appreciate your answer and your quick reply to my email that I sent to you after I had posted this. I was saasking about the yas 475 not the 62, but I was more concerned with the quality compared to my ST90IV. Anyway thank you and As far as I am concerned you were strictly professional and appropriate. Jim

Jim,

No need to apologize. None at all. Public forums are just that.

Worst case scenario, if you decide that you want to try my sax and for any reason you dont think its what I bill it to be, then I pay all the return shipping on it as well.

Dave

[Pannonia]

It is interesting how some people ignore that this is the "Kessler Saxophones" thread, and wonder that the main topic is not idolizing the Yamaha 62. LOL.

How many people you know have gotten off their butts and created their own line of saxophones? More power to you Dave Kessler.

[matsuo]

To say some unknown horn is better than Yamaha or even the Jupiter horns is just a overblown reaction.

I got an antigua soprano over a jupiter because it had a better price. I got it from kessler for under 1000 and it plays great, also I have a yamaha horn it plays good to. If yamaha was an unknown brand would you play it?

[Connrad]

I sent an Email to Dave for the first time and he answered so quick, I about fell out of my chair. I'm talking 5 minutes and I had an answer. Try to get that from your local Dutch Yamaha pusher Mr. Franco-Bolony...I can buy either horn I want and I will buy one of his shortly...Good old USA! Not JAPAN

[TENORPONCH]

I sent an Email to Dave for the first time and he answered so quick, I about fell out of my chair. I'm talking 5 minutes and I had an answer. Try to get that from your local Dutch Yamaha pusher Mr. Franco-Bolony...I can buy either horn I want and I will buy one of his shortly...Good old USA! Not JAPAN



really guys,i think that alot depends on who is playing the horn and not who made it or what brand it is or where it's made.A horn sounds good when a good player plays it. Any comments on that ,am I wrong or not?

EXCUSE MY WRITTINNG,(TOO TIRED TO FIDDLE WITH THE KEYS....)

[TENORPONCH]

OH!!! by the way, I plan on buying a KESS myself. I tried one......LIKED THE SOUND. Now that doesn't mean I'm going to get rid of my B&S and MK VI'S .I've always said that a saxman can't ever have enough saxes in his arsenal.8-) 8-) 8-)

[leseylex]

Once again i never wanted to be rude to mr Kessler in person or what so ever. I only stated that Kessler saxophone are not better than Yahama's and rarely or never seen in Europe. If they were better the whole world was playing on them, like on Yamaha saxes. That's all! And i also said that a horn as the 62 series 1 is still one of the best horns i have ever played and i've played several dozen of horns. For me this discussion is closed. Thank you all!

Dude, have you ever played a kessler horn?

[Kandyman]

Hey Dave! I have been eying your beautiful horns and definitely interested in the purchase.


I do have some questions and anyone with the experience with the horns themselves can offer input. I love the look and design, however thats never been a major factor to me as I never been into the "shines". What I am concerned with is the life of the horn.

Will the Sax withstand consistent playing?
Those that Play the Kessler how do they feel about the longevity of the sax?
Product up-keep, I know some overhauler that refuse to touch an "inexpensive horn" has anybody taking the Kessler in for any maintenance?

If you don't feel comfortable about answering this on public forum understood you can alway PM me.


I am anxiously awaiting replies.

[Kandyman]

LoL I finally read this entire thread.... and I Guess i chimed in on my last reply out of no where.:D I definitely see why nobody responded on the forum so I had to ask why... I thought this thread was devoted to asking the manufacture of the Kessler Horn questions.


NOT TO RE-OPEN A SORE TOPIC But If I were Dave Kessler I would be bias too about putting my name on a horn that I feel can't compete how absurd would that be. I design horns but I don't stand by my product lol???? Do you really think the manufactures of Yamaha wouldn't do the same against Selmer?

If they're weren't People like Dave Kessler we would never have an option on anything NEW. So Dave if you were shakey in your decision to support a horn you are labeling with the Kessler family name I wouldn't want to buy one either.


Yes be bias its justified in your case. I don't recall you saying anything negative about another brand name... and that makes me empathize with you.

I'm going to hit home here, so the faint of heart may not want to continue reading....



If you claim to be a musician and or a artist... You have to have a certain level of confidence in your ability to perform! What I'm getting at here is although I have great respect for every great musician/artist that has came before me I never doubt my ability to reach or exceed their plateau. I'm sorry if that offends any of you... but sometime you have to crack some eggs to make an omelet. If Dave feels like his horns hit in there with any major brand, then so be it..

How you feel about it is entirely you're opinion in which we are all entitled.

My father also gave me an great saying that will follow me forever

Opinions are like a**holes... everyone has one... most of them stink.8-)

Just my opinion!!! LOL;)

[CiaranAudio]

http://bsgexiles.com/pics/jesus-thread-sucks.gif

[gary]

Oy! This thread started (and seemingly ended) a good year and a half ago.
What are we doing here? :scratch:

[Kandyman]

Yeah I use the infamous search functions... that all know about but seldom utilize. so sorry for digging through threads. I though that was a recommended quality not a frowned upon one. Also seeing as I haven't been on this forum for the better part of 5 years I guess I should never post? Oh no maybe I'll just post random /gif, jpg., until I get my post count up to nearly 1K then the older member may cut me some slack and and let me post on old threads or even start a thread myself god forbid! lmao



to boot the tread still exist so please excuse me for not knowing that SOTW is one of the exclusive forum board that frown upon researching topics and re-using old threads.


I apologize to:

Dave Kessler

The Forum administrators.

and any Old member that my uncouth forum behavior offends.

[DixieSax]

Lighten up, Francis!

[gary]

Kandyman, you're taking this too personally.

There is nothing wrong with reviving old threads. Some of them are well worth revisiting, especially when there is new blood and new ideas on the forum since such threads went into sleep mode.

The problem with this particular thread, however, is its negativity and for no seeming purpose. It just seemed to get hijacked almost form the onset. Some things are better left to rest and a few of us just feel this thread is one of those. It's nothing personal towards you and you needn't take it so. ;)

[Kandyman]

Kandyman, you're taking this too personally.

There is nothing wrong with reviving old threads. Some of them are well worth revisiting, especially when there is new blood and new ideas on the forum since such threads went into sleep mode.

The problem with this particular thread, however, is its negativity and for no seeming purpose. It just seemed to get hijacked almost form the onset. Some things are better left to rest and a few of us just feel this thread is one of those. It's nothing personal towards you and you needn't take it so. ;)


Thank you Gary, I really didn't mean to reopen an old thread with a negative connotation attached for that I am sincerely apologizing. I was wondering why everyone responded to my earlier reply about the Kessler's on pm and not the forum so i re-read the entire thread , and seen what the possible problem would be. Needless to say I took offense to some of the comments about the horn, that too i will also apologize. For proliferating the negativity.

I do believe the original intended nature of this thread is a valid and worthwhile post for people that are genuinely interested in learning and find new info about the Kessler sax, although it was a major derail from that I think it would do Dave Kessler and SOTW a great service if the deleted the negativity and sticky it for Dave, that would prevent 100s of new threads popping up asking random questions.


But thank you coming back and clarifying that Gary highly appreciate the sediment:shock:;)



- GJ

[Xulld]

I asked a few months ago about sources for instruments. I noted "no Kessler" because Dave did not respond to my numerous emails. While a couple of posters actually answered my question (sources of instruments) most chose to flame me about my dealings with Dave. Dave offered his version, some reasons, and a sort of apology. Fine, we move on.
I attempted recently to try Dave again. No reponse.
I've sold thousands of dollars of instruments and plan to multiply that many times in the cominng years. I look for the best instruments for the best price to meet my customer's needs. I also look for the best sources of information not only for myself but for my customers.
I stopped using or recommending SOTW some time ago in part because of the myopic love affair the regular posters have with Kessler. Dave probably sells a good product. Don't know because I haven't been able to buy any of his instruments. But I look for more balanced and broad opinions as well as useful information. Hard to find on SOTW.
BTW, Yamaha may be moving to a fixed retail price shortly (heard at the NAMM show). No MAP, no discounts. Apparently their lawyers think it will fly. Don't think it will get by anti-trust laws but look out.

Thats funny, because when I called the number on the website, I got Chuck, and we spoke for a long time about the horns before I made up my mind.

Don't think I have had a better experience buying a horn . . . I have 4 saxes, and more instruments than I can count. If you want to contact someone really calling cant be beat, posts come and go, threads move around, but a phone number is usually pretty consistent.