Best 10M mpc match

[goodsax]

I just received a 1953 10M that's nasty looking, but everything's in good shape mechanically with no dents or dings. It plays from top to bottom with no noticeable leaking.

I've used a Morgan 3C, Runyon 88, another Runyon piece modified by Ed Svoboda and a Berg HR with a variety of reeds from Rico Royal #3-1/2s to Fibracell Med Hards. None of these combinations resulted in the resonant and full tone I expected from a vintage 10M. My LA Sax tenor sounds much better with any of the pieces. Is there an ideal combo I should consider for the 10M?

Thanks.

[JMac]

Rob-

Didn't you used to have 10M before? Man - I'd love to see a list of every horn you've owned!?!?!?! SORRY -I've got to tease you to make myself feel better about my gasaholism ;) .

Not to sound like the masses, but I'd suggest a link (or link-like piece). I think if you search diligently you may find a thread on which Mojo discusses which link-like piece he likes better than the links themselves (I think it may be one of the Ponzols). [Strike that - see post #12 in this thread - http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24831&highlight=ponzol ].

I prefer hard rubber myself, and was fortunate enough to snag an old 'Slant Sig' off of e-bay (ok - I had to buy a Grassi tenor with it, but for $200??) which Mojo re-worked for me. Really big, lush tone with plenty of projection. Well - at least that cured my gas in one arena :D . [Honestly - Mojo's cured me of mouthpiece GAS for all my horns - er, for the moment!]

Good luck Rob - hope you get the tone you're going for! -Jeff

[BKauth]

I too own a 10M tenor and fell that a mouthpiece with a larger chamber is more suitable on the older horns. They seem to match better acoustically with the instrument.

[goodsax]

Thanks Jeff & BK for the feedback.

Jeff: Yes, a more modern (60s) 10M passed through my realm a few months back, but now resides in Australia, or at least that's where I shipped it. I thought I might try an older '53 version to see if there's a difference. So far, I don't think so. But, I haven't given up on trying different mpc's to make sure.

I too prefer a rubber piece over metal. I haven't found metal pieces comfortable to play for any signficant length of time, and that goes for my sop, alto and tenor. I even have a Berg SS piece for my bari that I'm getting ready to sell for the same reason.

I'll take your suggestions to heart and see what I can find at a reasonable price. I'm leaning toward letting this 10M go, but I don't want to give up so soon. However, I'm beginning to think the LA Sax collection I've acquired is good enough for my needs.

You're right about the number of horns I've owned in the past four years; never more than six or seven at a time, but I'll bet I've cycled 30-40 saxes through my buy-sell machine during that period, and I'm getting tired of it, BION.

Rob

[gary]

I too prefer a rubber piece over metal.
I had good luck on my 1947 Lady Face with a Link (metal) NY Tonemaster and followed that with a JJ ESP. Both worked really well. I can't speak for all modern mouthpiece designs but the JJ/10M combination was very nice, indeed.

If you are looking for HR mpc's however, I would look at a Link, Kessler OL and the JJ HRs all of which I have played and would assume would work well for you. Of course there will be also recommendations for the Morgans, etc all of which I'm sure, harumph, you have already read on other threads. ;)


I'm leaning toward letting this 10M go....I'll bet I've cycled 30-40 saxes through my buy-sell machine during that period, and I'm getting tired of it, But to the crux of the matter. No insult intended ,but if you are willing to let go of a perfectly good 10M so quickly and have played 30-40 saxes is our holy grail really to be found in equipment? :)

[goodsax]

...No insult intended ,but if you are willing to let go of a perfectly good 10M so quickly and have played 30-40 saxes is our holy grail really to be found in equipment? :)Probably not. But, the experience of playing those saxes, an enjoyable end in itself, made it unmistakably clear to me that some hardware sounds a heck of a lot better than others with the same player on the business end, Moi.

I get your point, but I guess it's mostly a GAS thing with me. I'm not really looking for the Holy Grail as much as enjoying the experience of playing a wide variety of saxes (SATB) to get a personal feel for the characteristics of each. I read so much about different horns and setups on this forum and elsewhere I want to experience some of them for myself. But, as I stated earlier, I'm becoming weary of the hunt and may soon decide to drop out of the race and stick with my LA Sax collection to suit my weekend warrior needs.

Thanks for your observations and question.

Rob

[Bill Mecca]

I've heard great sounds on a 10M with a Link, Guardala Super King, and an Older metal Brilhart Levelaire. Also RPCs.

I played Mojo's 10m a few years back, and was playing a Jumbo java at the time (funny I am playing one again, what goes round comes round I guess).

A lot depends upon the sound you are looking for, and how the horn fits with your playing style, etc.

I would suggest you have the horn looked over by a competent tech before going thru mpc trials. then decide what is lacking in the tone you are getting from the mpc's and reeds you have, and then go from there.

[gary]

I get your point, but I guess it's mostly a GAS thing with me. I'm not really looking for the Holy Grail as much as enjoying the experience of playing a wide variety of saxes (SATB) to get a personal feel for the characteristics of each. I read so much about different horns and setups on this forum and elsewhere I want to experience some of them for myself.
Ah so. So in this regard, it's the process as much as the end, right? It seems like you're having a lot of fun in the process. You must spend a lot of time packing saxes for shipping, LOL.

Right then. When you settle down with your picks of the decade we will expect a full summary of why you chose one sax over the other. Might be interesting and fun to read. It'll take a lot of time but, then, without all that buying and selling and shipping and test-playing you'll go crazy trying to fill the vacuum. ;)

[goodsax]

A lot depends upon the sound you are looking for, and how the horn fits with your playing style, etc.

I would suggest you have the horn looked over by a competent tech before going thru mpc trials. then decide what is lacking in the tone you are getting from the mpc's and reeds you have, and then go from there.

I play tenor in both concert and swing bands, requiring two distinct sound types. With the LA Sax tenor, I've managed to acquire acceptable (to me) sounds in both bands by changing from a Berg HR with cane reeds in concert band to a Morgan 3C with Fibracells in swing band. I was just looking to see if a 10M, based on its reputation as expressed in this forum, might be an improvement in both settings.

The horn seems to be set up okay, with no visible damage and no leaks (I have a leak light tester). But, it is ugly due to a heavily pitted lacquer finish and the neck was professionally patched some time ago.

[boman]

I play a Conn 10M with a metal Vandoren V16 T95
I like it a lot.

my 2 cts

BoMan

[Grumps]

I've been using RPC's on my '40 10M; a 110R (dixieland) and a 125B (R&R, R&B, and all other jazz). The 110 rollover is a near perfect match for the horn. The low end (especially low D) is easy to control, and it just oozes an old time jazz sound. Using the 125 high baffle piece is a bit tougher to control down low, but just screams and takes the horn (or any horn I've put this on) to a whole new level. Interesting to note though, I once tried a 120 rollover piece thinking it would give me all the benefits of the 110, but with a tip opening closer to my high baffle piece. My 10M simply rejected the 120 and it was a terrible match (warbling low D out of control). Just goes to show you how fickle these horns can be. Although I'm getting away from playing metal mouthpieces on tenor these days, I did have an SR Tech Pro 115 that really, really, really played well on my 10M. No trouble with a soft low D at all with this medium chambered/baffled piece. Just didn't like the fact that it was metal, and when I got the 110R RPC, it became expendable.

[Mike Cesati]

I had a few 10M's and the Otto Link NY or a HR LInk worked best for me.

I very much into a traditional jazz sound so keep that in mind. I found the 10m's mpc finicky. I went to a Chu Berry with a Brillhart Tonalin and haven't looked back and probably won't change again. I love everything about my setup.
Good luck

[retread]

Two mouthpieces have worked really well on my 1936 10M: HR Link and Steve Broadus.

[qwerty]

hey rob:

i borrowed my buddy's 10M for a while for a couple of weeks about a year ago. my rpc110 made a sound so fat i could float the titanic on it. i like the rpcs in general for the vintage conns. i am currently using a rpc90r on my chu alto and it is a nice match as well.

good luck in your quest.

steve

[goodsax]

Thanks, Steve. An RPC shows up on eBay once in a great while. I'll keep my eyes open there, and here on SOTW. If one comes along at a decent price, I might go for it. I played the 10M with my Ed Svoboda modified Runyon with a .100 opening tonight and it sounded failry good. I know it can do better, though, so I'll keep looking and trying other setups.

[Pigpen]

My favorite HR mpc on a 10m (my 1940 silver plate) is a Phil Barone Vintage. The Link HRs sound too tubby when I listen to recordings of myself (I'm 6'1".) The Barone is so much better. At least that's been my experience. For HR on a 10m I've tried a Morgan Jazz, Vandoren Java, Hite Artist and probably some others I can't think of now. At this point on my 10m I like playing a Phil Barone Jazz (metal) I picked up on ebay recently. My favorite reeds right now are the Rico Jazz Selects 2H, but wwbw.com didn't have any in stock yesterday when I went to order some 3S's, which they also didn't have, so I got some Vandoren Java 3's in town.

pigpen

[goodsax]

I just missed a brand new gold Link on eBay that went for $88. So far, Ed's modified Runyon HR is working the best for me after trying a Morgan 3C and standard Runyon 88. Thanks for the input.

[paulwl]

I've been getting great stuff out of the 10M lately with the Bilger-Morgan 6J and Morgan 7L. But my STM 7* "Floridized" by Van Wie is the all-time favorite.

Brian has a very good point in that everyone ought to put in some shed time with the plain black, big chamber, factory stock mpc. Not that it's the only usable mpc. It gets you to the baseline – design spec. Knowing it will help you know the horn. From there on, you can find your sound.

[super20dan]

i recommend a morgam m model or a runyon sr . my 10 m sound s great with any mpc. it really cooks with the gardalua super king for rock and roll but i prefef the runyon quantum for long gigs.

[Pigpen]

In my last post to this thread regarding hard rubber mpcs on a 10m I implied that I wasn't excited about a Morgan on a 10m. I need to update that conclusion. What I was referring to was a Morgan Jazz 6L. But just because I didn't like it doesn't mean someone else isn't going to love it. In any case, my update is as follows.

Today I was in mouthpiece heaven on my 10m. I finally got The Morgan Excalibur 7EL from wwbw that I had ordered last August. It's unbelievable. I can do anything with it from bell tone growls to palm note screaming on the blues.

In my search for the ultimate mouthpiece I record myself on a digital voice recorder playing Round Midnight to test my tone and label each track. The Excalibur definitely gives me the best sound of any hard rubber mouthpiece I've tried, if not any mouthpiece period. Very exciting, and hard to put down.

Pigpen

[SteveS]

Grumps sez:


I did have an SR Tech Pro 115 that really, really, really played well on my 10M.

Hey Grumps! Long time, no see. Hope we can get another local SOTW get-together going.

My SR Tech Pro .108 sounds so good on my '37 10M that I'm actually leaning on that setup rather than my stellar 1961 Mark VI! (Hard to believe, but true.) I had tried that setup in the past and thought, "Eh..." But I recently started using Marca 3 reeds. I found that the 10M PLUS the SR Tech PLUS the Marcas was a terrific combination.

The 10M does not sound nearly as good with a handmade Guardala Studio. But it really likes that SR Tech big time.

[Grumps]

But I recently started using Marca 3 reeds.

Having finally had enough of current Rico Royals, I just might have to give those a try.

I tried that same Guardala with my 10M. A better match for a VI, I'd think.

[Pigpen]

I just found another mouthpiece I really like with a 10m: a modern Dukoff M aka Hollywood with no baffle. I got one in a 7*. I've had one on order at wwbw.com since last August, and I finally found one on ebay for $100. Great intonation, and much better than the Dukoff D7 with its high and step baffle that I've been fooling around with.

Only the Dukoff Hollywood and a Morgan Excalibur seem to be able to give me the sound I've been looking for lately: Maxwell Davis 40's & 50's West Coast R&B.

It doesn't even need any refacing or rail trimming. The D7 on a 10m on the other hand seemed to be the equivalent of squirting lighter fluid into a fire, not that I've ever done that;-^

pigpen

[OnyxSax]

I found that the 10M seems to like the "meat and potatoes" mouthpieces...Bergs, Links & Meyers. I use and prefer hard rubber pieces. I have a Berg 105/1 SMS rattling around the case of my '52 10M. I've popped my Rovner hard rubber on the 10M. It's got enough power to knock down walls, but enough intonation issues to drive you nuts to the point that you need to be locked up in a psycho ward.

[Gino]

My 10m sounds great with a 110/2 Berg metal and VanDoren V16 2 1/2 reeds.
I have a pro Yamaha alto and a cigar box full of pieces and still can't get the "lead alto" sound. Maybe it's me.

[garyinla]

HI I have a 1949 10M in good repair and numerous tenor mouthpiecse you are welcome to try sometime (but they are not for sale.) What I am using is a Dukoff
D9 refaced by MOJOBARI. I dont think that one will suit you but my other mouthpieces might give you some ideas.

Gary

[luispa]

My 10m sounds great with a 110/2 Berg metal and VanDoren V16 2 1/2 reeds.
I have a pro Yamaha alto and a cigar box full of pieces and still can't get the "lead alto" sound. Maybe it's me.

I think you should try with a metal Berg Larsen on the alto. I use a 85 3/M with my Buescher TT and the sound is big and with a lot of projection. Here are a few links with me playing the lead alto on a big band:

http://www.geocities.com/luispa8/EmbraceableYou.mp3
http://www.geocities.com/luispa8/FourBrothers.mp3

and soloing:
http://www.geocities.com/luispa8/TheChicken-Intro.mp3
http://www.geocities.com/luispa8/Tutu-AltoSax-Solo.mp3

[retread]

Wow! I traded my Tenney Broadus for a Tenney STM Link that Doc had modified about a dozen years ago. It outplays anything else I've tried on my 1936 10M. This is not one of Doc's perfected pieces. He marked it "Hollywood". The pro I traded with thought it most resembles an exceptional Link NY current model..

[sxplr06]

I have successfuly used an sr tech pro 115 with my 1941 10m. I now play an stm 7* link - the 10M really responds well to that and it is a more comfortable match. Both mouthpieces work well but I try to stay away from
high baffle pieces, which give these big bore horns a very harsh, unpleasant sound. I do think intonation issues are overblown - I've used a Vandoran jumbo java T95 without problem. But ultimately I just did not like the sound and felt that the high baffle concept doesn't mesh well with the 10M and Couf Superba 1, my other horn. These horns are not made to play with a narrow focus to the sound, which is what high baffle pieces produce. The large chamber and low baffle of the stm works much better with the design and sound concept of these horns.

High baffle pieces are great with Selmers and Yamahas where focus and projection are built in to the design of these horns - they don't work as well with the vintage American horn sound.

[Grumps]

...but I try to stay away from high baffle pieces, which give these big bore horns a very harsh, unpleasant sound.

Have you tried a high baffle piece with a large chamber, such as an RPC? It takes a little more attention around low D, but it's well worth it.

[sxplr06]

Grumps, I haven't tried an RPC - might have to give that a try. The thing is, I've found that links provide a flexibility to shape the sound in accordance with a player's capabilities. I never found that with high baffle pieces - the sound is more fixed. I don't have trouble getting a contemporary sound from the link because I have learned to control that aspect with my airstream rather than the mouthpiece. The link does fatten up the sound though and that is what I am after - horns like the 10M and Couf Superba are
made for that kind of sound amd they respond beautifully to the STM.

I don't think ten years ago I understood that - I thought to have a contemporary sound you needed the latest high baffle fad. Of course I was playing a Mark VI which was better with that concept anyway. But like its been said on these forums a thousand times - the player is the major component in a good sound, not the equipment.

[Grumps]

A Link wasn't a good match for my 10M, but to each his own. RPC high baffle mouthpieces aren't your run of the mill kazoo style screamers. Each such baffle is cut differently for alto, tenor and bari. Ron does this knowing that each has its own voice. The common denominator is the large chamber. Perhaps this is what allows the player a touch of versatility in expressing their voice on one of these pieces. Works for me.

[Frank D]

My 10M seems to be pretty mouthpiece friendly. My Guardala Studio plays just fine on it for Blues and R&R gigs, but I keep going back to my Link STM. Bigger sound, more flexibility. I'll be playing it tonight on a blues gig. The 10M has such a big sound, why restrict it with a peashooter mouthpiece?

[vonbraig]

10M and an Old Master Link 4****. It seems to get me through the gig.

[SplitTony]

My 10M seems to be pretty mouthpiece friendly. My Guardala Studio plays just fine on it for Blues and R&R gigs, but I keep going back to my Link STM. Bigger sound, more flexibility. I'll be playing it tonight on a blues gig. The 10M has such a big sound, why restrict it with a peashooter mouthpiece?

I agree. I have tried a metal Link, rubber link and a Guardala Studio. The all sound great on the horn. I did a side by side SIII, SBA, 10M. I used my Guardala Studio. That 10m has a bigger sound than the III and SBA put together. The funny thing is it has been in a closet for 20years the pads are not that great but it still plays fine.

[sxplr06]

I tried the sr tech pro 115 again on the 10M last night - it actually sounds great on that horn. Certainly much better than it does on my Couf Superba I. The Couf has a level of darkness that seems to bring out a certain harshness to the sound with high baffle pieces. The pro is a low to medium baffle piece, but it still doesn't sound as good as the link on the Couf.