1959 Conn 10M mouthpiece setup

[DrBones]

Hi, Can anyone give me some input on mouthpiece set-ups that best suit the Conn 10M. I have played alto for 2 years with a meyer 6M and VD optimum lig. I'm looking for a tenor set up that takes advantage of the big sound of the Conn but still plays balanced, sharp and clean in the highs and sonorous at the low end. I tried a Meyer 6 for the tenor but found it too choking/restricted. I also tried a VD JumboJava T55 and liked the way it played, very open and unrestricted ,but it seemed a bit "buzzy" to me. I know embouchure is the critical aspect with any setup and I think mine is decent, but suggestions for a good mouthpiece would help. Thanks :?:

[MojoBari]

You can try the Meyer 6 (or 7) with a Powertone stick-on baffle in it. From the other end, you can try a Vandoren T55 Java which has less baffle than the Jumbo Java.

For new experiances, try a Runyon Custom Spoiler (7-8?) and a Runyon Quantum Spoiler (9-10?). They are not too pricey for what you get.

[Frank D]

You can't go wrong with a Link, either metal or HR, on a 10M.

[DrBones]

Thanks for the response,
Mojo Bari, I have followed some of the other threads in the forum topics on mouthpieces and was hoping you would give me some feedback. I ordered a VD T45 Jumbo Java from BWWW this week to try with an optimum ligature. It seemed to be a mouthpiece that received pretty favorable feedback from other posters in the forum. I know everyone has individual preferences, but it seemed like a reasonable place to start this illusive search to match beast with mouthpiece. I also seem to recall from past posts to the forum that you tweeked some other T45's in the baffle . What's your input on these pieces.
Frank D thanks for the input. I have heard/read. a lot about the metal links as the classic mouthpiece. Is it true the older models are beter than the new ones? If so , Why? Would you recommend a 6 or a 7. Do the new ones vary so much in quality or tone from one to another? thanks

[MojoBari]

Jumbo Javas are great if they are not too bright for your tastes. They are usually made well enough to not need rework for most players. Some players blow in a way that causes chirps on high baffle mouthpieces unless they reworked to minimize those problems. I use a Jumbo Java if I want to punish someone with my alto sax. :lol:

I play a 60's 10M. I use a plastic Quantum 12 on it. I tend to play on the dark side, probably due to a fat bottom lip and where I like to place it on the reed. So a bright-ish mouthpiece works for me to get a middle-of -the road tone. Especially on the dark-ish 10M. If you play on the bright side, a Link is worth exploring to darken the tone.

[DrBones]

Mojobari, Thanks for the input. I tried a Runyon Custom 6 and liked the ease it played with but with a chromatic tuner on it, most every note in its range played sharp( around 20 cent or more.) I had to pull the MP out so far it was practically hangingoff the neck (on by 3/4-1 inch) and wrapped with tape. Only then was I able to make some embouchure adjustments to get it pretty close to 10 cent sharp but now lost the high D to F range flat 20 cent . Very frustrating. I read some of the other forum comments regarding the Custom MP's hanging on by a thread on some other necks and playing sharp. I even read from other postings about extending the mouthpiece to correct a similar problem, I can't imagine that , the thing looks ridiculously long already practically hanging off the sax neck. Is this something with the 10M's? Is it my technique? I'm an adult player with 2 years alto playing. I practice 4-5 days a week 1-1-1/2 hours a clip, so I dont think my embouchure is that bad or weak. Any input would be helpful, thanks

[averageschmoe]

i'd recommend a vintage soloist, long shank, maybe an E or F opening?

[sjabariiii]

"balanced, sharp and clean in the highs and sonorous at the low end."

If you're into metal, SR Technologies Professional.

-ANDYJ

[MojoBari]

There are a significant number of reports of 10Ms acting like they have short necks. So I do not think it is you. But there are a few mouthpieces with long shanks that fit well. The Quantum is one.

I played a year on a piece that only went on 5/8". I would probably modify a mouthpiece to be longer if I liked it and it did not fit well.

[super20dan]

every 10m i have played suffers from too short a neck. i got mine extended and no more problem. even with the extencion i cant use my lakey

[Mike Cesati]

I found that anything with a baffle or small chamber doesn't work at all. I play a rubber 7* Link. It works great intonation wise. I just did a rock gig last night with the LOUDEST drummer and bassist in the universe. I had my shure wireless and a great soundman and got on top of everything and screamed. i guess I'm lucky I can make the link work. I just think with the older 10m's ,they weren't designed with the modern peashooter baffle mpcs in mind. They were made when cats didn't have mikes. I did the sound check last night and I didn't have my mike on and the guys were complimenting me on my sound. I said to the soundman that I just need a little more boost and he laughs and says "Hey Mike ,try turning the mike on" :oops: . before you try the latest gimmick spend some time fattening up your sound . First and foremost you need to be in TUNE. get a mpc that will play in tune on the conn (there are many Links,ponzol, ackerman worked for me.)I know 10m players that use Meyer,morgan,and Broadus as well.then just develop your sound .

[super20dan]

mike -you are lucky to be working with a good sound tech.i currently am playing in a very loud band with no sound man at all. its no fun .forget about quaility of sound -just try to be heard above the din! this is why i have to use extreme equiptment set-ups.

[DrBones]

Mojo bari, which quantum do you suggest. the metal, the spoiler, the XL? What are the differences? Will a Link work?

Super Dan what's involved with extending the neck? It would seem to me that when they made the 10 M's they had MP's to play in tune. w/o modifying the sax. Any ideas which one they used?

If I get a LInk any suggetions as to which number 6,7. I'm ultimately looking for a more balanced smooth jazz sound but with some punch, too If that's possible in one mouthpiece. Is it true the new Links are not of the same quality as the past. Do you just have to try a lot of them. Thanks to all

[MojoBari]

Quantums have a very non-traditional exterior shape. Some players can not get past it, others do get used to it and even like it. They feel very small in the mouth. They do work. I would start by exploring the Custom Quantum Spoiler. It is made of Delrin plastic. The Spoiler is just an optional removable insert that adds brightness and projection. It only costs $15-20.

The metal Quantums are a little darker and not as loud. They are available with a plastic tooth deck that makes them feel more like other tenor pieces in the mouth. They cost more, so I think it is better to try the plastic ones first.

The XL/Smoothbores have a similar baffle to the Quantums but a smaller chamber. I would not recommend trying them unless you try a Quantum and wish it was brighter.

Most players can play large sounding sizes on a Quantum. Something in the 9-12 range might suit you.

[super20dan]

my mpc tech turns a peice of brass tubing on a lathe to match the bore of the neck .it is then cut to your specks(length) and soldered to the end of the neck. a new neck cork is installed over the extencion and no one is the wiser. cost is about 80$ for this invalauble service as you can use any mpc you wish. imho this is a must for vintage bari saxes.

[Mike Cesati]

Super20dan, I hear you. I was lucky this given night .This guy was excellent.I had my doubts about having a good time on this gig because of the volume of these players. Like I've said before with the right sound and monitor you can use the Link on a funk/rock show. I'm actually a bright player so anything with a baffle I'm usually really bright. I had a baffled HR mpc with my Selmer mk6 years ago but when I went to the conns I had intonation trouble right off.As a matter of fact I took my 10m to a gig the first time with the baffled HR mpc and I was hideously sharp. I actually didn't check my tuning and was assuming everything was going to be on. I was pretty thin and sharp sounding as well.The piano player wasn't too happy with me. I was trying to tune and the mpc was barely on the neck. I was very discouraged because when I had got the Conn I had heard that they were really big sounding and I experienced none of that. then came the mpc search. I always thought a rubber Link was dead sounding on my MK6 but it was just what I needed to get the Conn working right. I do have more of a jazz tenor tone but have played lots of electric bliues and rock. a real good repair guy I know did say that extending a neck would work as you have done but he convinced me to try something with less baffle and he helped with my tone when I made the swap to Conn. He's also a great player and he got me to open up my throat more and get a more powerful sound. I had actually been trying to subdue the baffle highs to get more of a jazz tone. I was really developing a bad habit . This is just my experience so take it for what its worth. I guess that' s part of the reason I'm anti-baffle .I was relying on it too much and not utilizing my own inner power to get a nice big sound. For each of us we need to find what works the best and believe in it and just play. You probably sound killer on a 10m with a baffle. Each of us approach the saxophone a little different but as long as the end result is in tune and pleasing in tonal quality then when have accomplished much.It's time to say something on the horn.

[Mike Cesati]

PS, dr. Bones if you do try a Link you will need to try several. They are inconsistent but there are good new production Links. Older ones are expensive but you can get an early babbitt reasonably sometimes. You probably should go the woodwind Brasswind route and try some newer ones . You may hate the Link. Try at least 3 to get a good opinion. If you have been playing a while try a 7 Link. again depending on reed strength this should be a good starting point. with a 7 you could use anywhere between a 2 1/2 to a 3 1/2 reed
I would add that a Morgan,Ackerman,Ponzol,or RPC,Barone Vintage all could work on a 10m as well if they don't have too much baffle. There are many variables. Check your tuning and intonation before you go to a gig. Don't make my mistake.This ends my thesis on the 10m and mouthpieces. I hope I haven't put you to sleep. Best of luck to all you guys.

[CONN-hunter]

Hi Sjabariiii!!

I have bought a SR Professional but I don´t have found the right reed to it!

do you would have a tipp for me? oppening 0.108

Hi Mike!

the OL New york I haVE bought from you is good, but I take the OL HR 7* ever again for my Chu Tenor!! sounds better!

would a Brilhart great Neck word good in a old CONN C.G.? New wonder Tenor?

I thank you for tipps!

[Mike Cesati]

Hi Conn Hunter. Hope all is well. Just keep listening to Sonny Rollins and Dexter Gordon :lol: Peace

[CONN-hunter]

Hi MIke!! off course is all well!! 8) we try many MPC´s until find the ideal ones!! I have bought a great neck brilhart!! what do you mind? would be a good MPC for my New wonder Tenor ?
I will the OL new york sail !

have a nice weekend!

gil

[Bootman]

Quantums, Old Links and even Dukoffs work really nicely on old Conn Tenors. Try several until you find one that works.

[swingerini]

I've played Conn tenors for years, and the most important thing to
realize is that you have to keep your throat open as you ascend up the
scale; about 2nd 8va "A" is where you want to keep you throat open,
tongue position ~down~.

Coming from a lore narrow bore like a Selmer IS going to be a surprise
since you tend to want to change the shape of your oral cavity as you
go up(except for altissimo,of course..) .

The same applies for the King saxophones.

A few months back someone was selling a King Zephyr Special, because
as much as he loved the sound he couldn't play it in tune; couldn't just
switch back and forth between his VIs and the King, "just like that",and
be in tune .

Why ? not because it requires a special mouthpiece , a neck extension,
or any radical changes in embouchure for every other note .

You would just need to remember to keep your throat open and oral
cavity more or less fixed as you play higher. The thing with that is that
it's soooo simple most people wouldn't think of that.

Many players are self-taught(nothing wrong with that really), and in the
process don't necessarily do long tones, or even understand what role
the shaping of the oral cavity plays in sound production and intonation.

I read all the time about Conns only play well with a large chamber mpc.

It's not true .

I've used a high baffle medium chamber mpc on all 4 conn tenors as well
as that same style mpc. on my 12M Baritone; a Lamberson DD, with none
of the legendary(internet-wise) tuning problems that are propagated .

If your going to play a Conn exclusively it should be no problem to adapt
as long as you internalize the issue of paying some early attention to
open throat and oral cavity/tongue position.

Jazz great, Harold Land played Berg Larsens for years on 10M/30Ms

[cfile]

I agree. I play a '48 Conn 10m and have never had intonation problems with mouthpieces and I switch back and forth from an old Florida Link to a Claude Lackey 5*3 (with a high baffle) with no problem. I have played both pieces in R&R bands and prefer the sound of the Link. Both pieces also fit at about the same place on the neck as other mouthpieces do. I think that it might be partly an embrochure problem, too much bitting on the reed that makes the horn go sharp. I have had a little problem with a '25 Martin soprano and a modern Selmer mouthpiece with a small bore that required me to push the mouthpiece almost all the way onto the neck and relax the embrochure to keep the lower notes from going sharp. Hope this helps.

[gary]

Man, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the Jody Jazz ESP. I've been playing one for about two years, I guess, and it works great on a 10M. There are none of the intonation or control problems mentioned above. And both ends of the range are easy to play.

If you've been playing a Meyer 6M on alto (which I also did for several years), then I don't think the tone quality difference with a ESP/10M combination is going to sound far removed for you.

[saxez]

Both Otto Link metal or Brilhart Great Neck NY mouthpieces are good for Conn "Chu" tenor sax.

[HUTMO]

10M s do seem shortnecked but I have learned that a good airstream and breath support is the difference. After a year playing this one over a year now I am pushing the pieces on further and playing right on the spot in tune.


I have had success with:
1. Florida Link
2. SR Titan
3. Dukoff 6* Ebonite (early 80's)

The Titan is the darkest of the three. The Dukoff with my 10M will peal paint.


Good luck
Hutmo