Barone Tenor Jazz vs. Ponzol II-V-I

[Shahzy]

So here I am deciding to spend some big bucks on a new metal mouthpiece. I'm ditching my Berg Larsen for a variety of reasons which I won't get into here. I'm looking to see if anyone has personal, first hand experience of the Barone Jazz mouthpiece for tenor sax. I read about it everywhere using (I suspect) Barone-supplied blurb i.e. "fat, rich, lush but husky" sound. By comparison, the Ponzol II-V-I talks about 'warmer and darker' and that's it. Any input from anyone would be hugely appreciated.

[Sigmund451]

They are both good mouthpieces. I never played them next to one another but my memory puts them in around the same arena in terms of darkness. The Barone may have a little more color. The Ponzol blows easier. Dont take it to the bank though...its been a while since I played the Ponzol. BTW if you go Ponzol I think Junkdude beats out WWBW prices.

[dirty]

I have a Ponzol ii-v-i 110 that I found at a steal when I was a more inexperiencd player. I've found that it's not a terribly dark mouthpiece and that it feels and sounds "tight" with less color than my Link STM 7*. I would sell it, but my little brother has taken a liking to it.

[Shahzy]

Thanks! I have been trying to work through the other threads and generally, I have found great things said about the sound of Barones (but not their look or presentation, which in the greater scheme of things is a total non-issue!) but the key really was, without a hands-on/embouchure-on side-by-side test, a comparison with the Ponzol. Enjoy, y'all!

[rispoli]

I owned and sold both.
IMHO a refaced Otto Link NY sounds better than both. This means spending slightly less than a new Ponzol and a lot less than a new Barone.

I compared them with my stock Otto Link NY 7* and I had a Barone Jazz 7* and a Ponzol II-V-I 110 (an 8 opening).
The Barone, which is supposedly modeled after the OL NY, played a litttle freer and quite easier than my off-the-shelf OL. I figured that all these playability advantages were due to the better finishing (we all know than new OL aren't really well finished these days). Tonally I still preferred the OL. Bottom line I sold it with no regrets. I am 99% confident that when I'll have my OL refaced by Mojo it will play better than that.

The Ponzol has a smaller chamber, once I took out of the box I was very pessimistic, but then I was pleased to be wrong. It plays really well and dark also if the chamber is smaller than the OL. It was so similar to this that I ended up selling it too, this time with a bit of sorrow.

To summarize: if looking for a dark, round-chambered tenor piece, you would be better off with a stock OL NY then customized to your needs by a refacer.

[Shahzy]

[ That was my attempt at mimicking the mad scientist's assistant. Did I get the tone right? ]

I went and eventually bought (no, let me rephrase that: I ordered) the Barone Jazz 7 and then on eBay, a Link NY 7 came up which was - maybe - an OK deal. I got it, before shipping and handling, for about $70. For sure, it's way less than the Barone but both will probably now arrive almost together. Let's see what happens.

Either way, though, one or both has to be better than the Berg Larsen I've been fighting with for way the heck too long.

[Giganova]

I have a Barone Jazz 7* and a refaced Otto Link 7*. Both are near-identical in sound -- which means that both are very dark (the Link is a touch darker), very even across the entire range of the horn and simply put sound fantastic.

[Morry]

I have owned a II-V-I, and still own a Barone Jazz. Here are my impressions:

Ponzol - Nice, dark sound, but with more projection than the old STM that I had. Well made piece. I seem to remember that it had a much longer facing than the Barone Jazz, or a STM. Sounded great on my old YTS-62. Didn't like it at all once I switched to Keilwerths. Has a nice core sound to it when coupled with the right sax.

Barone - I dearly love this mouthpiece. The dark, husky description is right on the money. Mine has some file marks, and the finish work isn't perfect, but it plays very, very well. Kind of like a STM, but with more balls, I think. Unfortunately, I have some intonation issues when I try a huge, round chamber piece on the Keilwerth. I could eventually make it work, but I'm getting old and don't want to work that hard any more, so I'm playing an aluminum Lakey now. I don't think I'll ever sell the Barone though. You never know when I might pick up another horn that it works well on.

[Phil Barone]

Yeah, the combination of a large bore sax and a large bore piece doesn't work well. Ya gotta play it on a Mark VI but if you put one of my larger bore necks on the VI you get the best of both worlds.

I'm getting tired of making mouthpieces so I might go to the Amecicam Motorcycle Institute and become a motorcycle mechanic. The problem with that is that it doesn't pay much money either but I've always wanted to move to Europe so this would allow me to do that.

Making mouthpieces from scratch, I don't mean buying blanks, anyone can do that, is VERY hard. I throw a lot away and get criticized a lot by players that really need to practice more than anything. It's like a tennis raquet, it's only as good as the player although it can be helpful if the raquet you're using is just garbage and is getting in the way of your learning.

After so many years of playing God knows how many mouthpieces, I've found with the right reed I can pretty much play anything and make it sound good. It may not feel comfortable but I can make it sound good.

Listen folks, really, in all honesty, there's really nothing out there but garbage, real crap. Mine aren't really available unless you don't mind waiting six months to a year or more depending on my health and how I'm feeling. The best you can do is get a new Link, NOT A NY for tenor or a Meyer for alto then just search for reeds. For Rock or smooth Jazz, look no further than Dukoff for tenor and alto or Beechler for alto. Phil

[gary]

So. For anyone who's interested, I'll be putting a bunch of mouthpieces up for sale later on in the day. :shock:


Verrrry interesting post.

[jazaddict]

Shahzy,
If you send the Link to a refacer (I recommend Mojo; met him here, great work on 2 pieces) you'll be assured of a) getting all there is to get out of the piece and b) improving it anywhere from a little to "so much that you don't recognize it". For that matter, I bet if you sent the Berg in for refacing you'd like it better too.

I agree that reed selection is key to getting what you want out of a piece. I've recently aquired a Link STM 7* that REALLY sings for me with the brightness of Vandoren's V16. Finding the right reed might take a few $$ and some patience, but its important.

So how do you like the pieces so far??

[Giganova]

I agree that sending the Link to Mojo would be a great idea. I received my refaced Link Millenium a few weeks ago and couldn't be happier.

I still can't decide which of my two mpc I like most:
the refaced Link or my Barone Jazz (which sounds awesome!). They are very similar in sound and both play wonderful!

[Giganova]

Phil: It would be a tragic loss for all of us if you'd stop making mouthpieces, of course -- but then again, you have to do what your heart tells you to do!

I did this six years ago when I decided to move from Germany to the US. Packed within one week and off I went to pursue my dreams. Never regretted it for a minute! Any country in particluar in Europe you'd like to live? [I could hook you up with a top-level guy at the BMW research & development hq in Munich if interested]

[carr]

Why does the combination of a large bore mouthpiece and large bore sax not work well? Would this mean that a Link would not work on a Keilwerth?

[Morry]

Why does the combination of a large bore mouthpiece and large bore sax not work well? Would this mean that a Link would not work on a Keilwerth?

I have no idea, and it might be dependent on the player's anatomy also (we don't take that into consideration often enough), but large bore pieces cause me to be sharp on the Keilwerth. These are the same pieces that had good intonation on Yamahas.

My theory, and I have absolutely no scientific evidence to back it up is that larger bore saxes are a cone whose radius reduces at a faster rate from bell to neck tip than does a smaller bore horn. Maybe the large bore mpc doesn't continue that taper properly, and the resulting pitch is off.

Like I said, that is probably hooey, and could be easily disproved by the Mythbusters.

[Morry]

Yeah, the combination of a large bore sax and a large bore piece doesn't work well. Ya gotta play it on a Mark VI but if you put one of my larger bore necks on the VI you get the best of both worlds.

I'm getting tired of making mouthpieces so I might go to the Amecicam Motorcycle Institute and become a motorcycle mechanic. The problem with that is that it doesn't pay much money either but I've always wanted to move to Europe so this would allow me to do that.

Making mouthpieces from scratch, I don't mean buying blanks, anyone can do that, is VERY hard. I throw a lot away and get criticized a lot by players that really need to practice more than anything. It's like a tennis raquet, it's only as good as the player although it can be helpful if the raquet you're using is just garbage and is getting in the way of your learning.

After so many years of playing God knows how many mouthpieces, I've found with the right reed I can pretty much play anything and make it sound good. It may not feel comfortable but I can make it sound good.

Listen folks, really, in all honesty, there's really nothing out there but garbage, real crap. Mine aren't really available unless you don't mind waiting six months to a year or more depending on my health and how I'm feeling. The best you can do is get a new Link, NOT A NY for tenor or a Meyer for alto then just search for reeds. For Rock or smooth Jazz, look no further than Dukoff for tenor and alto or Beechler for alto. Phil

Phil, I hope you didn't take any offense at my statement about my Barone Jazz's appearance. There are some imperfections in the finish but, from the sound, it obviously doesn't matter, and I couldn't care less. It is a fine piece. I've also owned one of the alto NY 6M pieces and, although it doesn't work in my current playing situation, plays very strong.

[jd]

For Rock or smooth Jazz, look no further than Dukoff for tenor and alto or Beechler for alto. Phil
__________________
wow.. after years of trying out mpcs and buying and selling a few hundred i wound up with dukoff tenor and alto as well as beechler alto.also have a meyer ... your right ... with the right reed i can play just about any piece. phil your pieces rock too... the best ones that you make that i liked were the contemporary models for tenor and alto as well as the fusion tenor

[Giganova]

Phil, I hope you didn't take any offense at my statement about my Barone Jazz's appearance. There are some imperfections in the finish but, from the sound, it obviously doesn't matter, and I couldn't care less. It is a fine piece.

Same here: I have to say that I was amazed how rough the finish inside my Barone Jazz was when I received it. However, one of the leading mpc refacer told me that Phil simply knows what's important and not, and he focuses more on the parts that shape the sound than on time consuming tasks that just improve the cosmetics. My Barone Jazz sound awesome and this is what counts in the end :D

[sinkdraiN]

Yeah, the combination of a large bore sax and a large bore piece doesn't work well. Ya gotta play it on a Mark VI but if you put one of my larger bore necks on the VI you get the best of both worlds.

I'm getting tired of making mouthpieces so I might go to the Amecicam Motorcycle Institute and become a motorcycle mechanic. The problem with that is that it doesn't pay much money either but I've always wanted to move to Europe so this would allow me to do that.

Making mouthpieces from scratch, I don't mean buying blanks, anyone can do that, is VERY hard. I throw a lot away and get criticized a lot by players that really need to practice more than anything. It's like a tennis raquet, it's only as good as the player although it can be helpful if the raquet you're using is just garbage and is getting in the way of your learning.

After so many years of playing God knows how many mouthpieces, I've found with the right reed I can pretty much play anything and make it sound good. It may not feel comfortable but I can make it sound good.

Listen folks, really, in all honesty, there's really nothing out there but garbage, real crap. Mine aren't really available unless you don't mind waiting six months to a year or more depending on my health and how I'm feeling. The best you can do is get a new Link, NOT A NY for tenor or a Meyer for alto then just search for reeds. For Rock or smooth Jazz, look no further than Dukoff for tenor and alto or Beechler for alto. Phil

That is my favorite post of the year. However, I'm saddened at the prospect of losing another artist. It must be tough because custom mouthpieces aim at a market full of players looking for a "silver bullet." Of course there's no such thing so something or someone must get the blame.