Getzen

[Deirdre]

Hi folks,

I got myself an old alto sax... from Getzen-Elkhorn...
I always thought Getzen only produces brass instruments...

Who can tell me something about this Getzen-Elkhorn horn? Anyone who has one? Anyone who knows this make?


thx in advance
Deirdre

[Deirdre]

Is there really noone at all who can at least tell me when Getzen-Elkhardt started manufacturing saxes?
I cannot find anything about them on the web. ANd I have not a clue where to post my question otherwise... remember I live in the Netherlands and this sax was made in the States, I guess... :lol: :lol:

Please help me...


Deirdre

[gary]

Hi Deirdre! Sorry you're not getting much help. In the absence of any real experts, maybe this info can get you started. There's a Getzen sax for sale at this URL: http://www.saxquest.com/tradeDetail.asp?TradeID=333

Perhaps if you contacted the folks at www.saxquest.com you can get some info regarding Getzen saxes.

Also, maybe you already know this, but in Deventer is a great sax shop, Saxofoonwinkel, and they might either know the answers to your question or at least point you in the right direction. Try them at www.saxshop.nl.

By the way, used to have a girlfriend with the same name, same spelling. You didn't used to be a Miss Hawaii contestant and a hostess for Singapore Airlines, did you?

Good luck.

[Deirdre]

Hey neighbour!!
Thanks for your reply! I will check this out tomorrow.
Ehm... nope, no miss hawai or singapore airline stuff.... those are just dreams... hahaha

Träume muss man haben :lol: :lol:

Greetz
Deirdre

[gary]

Träume muss man haben

Bei mir war es kein Traum. Aber jetzt...nur ein Gedächtnis. Oh wah, wah, wah. :cry:

[Deirdre]

Bei mir war es kein Traum. Aber jetzt...nur ein Gedächtnis. Oh wah, wah, wah. :cry:

Poor you....

I sent an email to this guy ... you will hear :wink:


ciao
Deirdre

[Deirdre]

Gary!!!!! Hör mal.....

--------------------------------------------
The Getzen saxophones that we own came from a factory in Elkhorn Wisconson. The model is circa 1950, and a few were made. However soon thereafter there was a devastating fire that destroyed all the records and irreperably damaged the machining line and put the Getzen company's woodwind making out of commission. Now, they are reknowned only for their brass which was all that was left of their facilities. They never went back to making woodwinds. I managed to acquire a copy of an original 1950's sales paper; our saxes are displayed. I have a Getzen Super Deluxe Model, I imagine yours is the same in the Alto line. It needs some work, but sounds great as is. Can't imagine how it would be when repaired. Amazing you have one in the Netherlands, astounding!
---------------------------------------------

Great, isn´t it?

Thanks again!
Deirdre

[cmelodysax]

Hello Deirdre, I have an elderly Getzen clarinet that came from the States - I guess from the same factory - so it was also probably manufactured before the fire. Regards from England.

[Deirdre]

Hi other neighbour!
Wow, also a clarinet... this must have been a disaster... that fire. How does the clarinet play? My sax has a nice round tone, very warm.
I try to get more information about Getzen-before-the-fire... so stay connected :-)

Thanks for your reaction!

Deirdre

[heinz]

Hi, the story of the factory fire sounds convincing... however there was a getzen alto at ebay recently and to me (not being a vintage expert) it very much looked like a 1950s conn. Perhaps one of the experts could comment on this?
Heinz

[paullanfermeijer]

Hmmmm,

When searching for the PanAmerican serialnumbers some time ago there is that same story of the great fire...........and the loss of all the serialnumbers/papers.
If it's the same fire .....Conn???? :D

Paul

[cmelodysax]

Does the Low C guard look like a 'Mercedes' badge (the three pieces at 120 degree spacing) ? - that'd make it 99% a Conn. I don't think Conn made anything without that quirky trademark...

Regards, Alan.

[Fred]

I ran across a Getzen Super Deluxe bari used today. Not really playable due to pads, but not in that bad a shape.

Just a comment - nothing else.

[stitch]

I don't think Conn made anything without that quirky trademark...

Regards, Alan.

Apparently they did..... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2577376094&category=16 234&rd=1

[cmelodysax]

Stitch - thanks, not convinced it's a Conn, looks totally unlike a 'transitional Chu'. I've asked the seller to convince me.

However, extracted from the (previously) B & H forum, now at -
http://www.musicgroup.com/Instruments/Forum/FrameForum.htm

(quote) The Oxford Saxophone was part of a range of instruments branded Oxford / Cambridge / Westminster / Cavendish. They were developed from products produced in France and imported to England (and later manufactured there) by Henry Distin, whose company became part of Boosey & Co. in 1868. (unquote)

Keilwerth is also in the B&H/Buffet/Conn eternal triangle somewhere, and I think they used (stole-borrowed?) some Conn concepts, even made a few 'late' Conn stencils - is that where the "locking grub screws for a number of the posts " came from ?

Conn ? Nah..... Some ebayers'll believe anything :D
Regards, Alan

[stitch]

Well, I don't know enough to tell (although like you I had always thought the merc keyguard was mandatory); though paulwl in a stencils thread (http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=74334#74334) was convinced:

Sure looks like it...2-way low Bb spatula, set (grub) screws, and it even has an
M number!

Interesting, that piece you quoted from the B&H forum - I had forgotten about that. I'm sure you're right about the cross-fertlilization though - definitely makes sense.

[cmelodysax]

Stitch - I'm still unconvinced, but I got a reply from the seller and he's convinced.

One small point (actually two !) - Conn never made a model 48M, and certainly didn't stamp 'M' model numbers on stencils as far as I know - only on 'Conn' brand horns.

I wished the seller 'good luck' tho' - life's too short, and if the horn plays well - then what does it matter ? (it would to me.....)

Must get on with listing my Conn C-Mel :D - which IS a Conn.

Regards, Alan.

[Pete]

Sorry. I've got pics of a Conn-made Bundy that's stamped with an "M" model number. I think it's 68M. Don't remember exactly. Conn stencil SERIAL numbers generally do not begin with an M, but a P.

AFAIK, all Conns and Conn stencils do have the "Mercedes-Benz" logo low C keyguards, excepting sopranos and horns with sheet-metal keyguards. I have seen Conns that have had the original guards removed and replaced with something else.

I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong, though.

Anyhow, Keilwerth did make stencil horns for Conn: the DJH Modified horns were H-Couf stencils. Keilwerth also produced a variety of horns for Boosey & Hawkes -- mostly student models.

You certianly can argue that Keilwerth stole their designs from Conn or vice versa, but examination of German-manufactured horns tends to suggest that most features found on the Keilwerth horns (rolled tone holes, microtuner neck, etc.) were already found on Kohlert and other horns -- and Julius apprenticed at Kohlert until around 1926. It's more probable that Conn and Keilwerth "shared" from each other. Hey, the Keilwerth Deluxe (http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/Keilwerth/early/alto/silver/9xx-deluxe/) models look very similar to the Conn New Wonder "Vituoso Deluxe" (http://www.saxpics.com/conn/nw_virtuoso.htm)horns. Hmm. Name's similar too ...

[cmelodysax]

Thanks for that info about the Bundy, I'm happy to be proven wrong, and like you I've never seen a Conn without the 'mercedes' (with the exceptions that you quote).

The 'stolen ideas' comment was quite tongue-in-cheek, as a European I can live with the concept that most good ideas originated here :D The music industry is very incestuous, I'll bet people & ideas moved around in Elkhart all the time, with the makers that were there.

Yes, Keilwerth made a lot of good horns for other makers, I have a Keilwerth Toneking Exclusiv tenor and can't help but compare its features to several other good horns. It'll be around for much longer than me....

Regards, Alan.

[Pete]

I'd love to see your horn.

I don't know why people do a lot of things. I've even seen Conns retrofitted with Selmer keywork. I'd think (I'm not a repairman, so it's just an opinion) that replacing those keyguards is pretty easy. I also know that they're realtively easy to bend outta shape.

"Stolen ideas" may be tongue-in-cheek, but it also may be very accurate. In my research of Keilwerth, I've yet to find one patent issued to them. This tends to indicate that Keilwerth used a very good "base" design and improved on it, rather than inventing something radically different. (I understand and accept that some of their patents could have been issued during WWII and have gotten destroyed.)

============

Back on the topic of this thread, I've seen a couple Getzen horns and they were Buescher stencils. I think I read something to the effect of Getzen wanted to expand their market away from brasswinds and stenciled a couple of other woodwinds.

The 1950's date seems pretty accurate. See http://www.getzen.com/about/

(The Conn fires happened in the early 1900's, well before Getzen was founded. The Getzen fires occurred in 1963.)

[stitch]

I'd love to see your horn.

Must not make smutty joke, must not make smutty joke, must not make smutty joke .... :twisted:

[Pete]

I'd love to see your horn.

Must not make smutty joke, must not make smutty joke, must not make smutty joke .... :twisted:

Must not come up with amusing retort ...

[Neil Sharpe]

There is a Getzen tenor listed on Ebay with seller noting that the bell is inscribed:

"Notes on bell- Elkhorn Div of Getzen Elkhorn Wis. On back of sax notes -Made in Italy. Serial #7244."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2370930628&category=16 234

[Tarkiz]

Did anyone find out anymore info about these saxophones. I recently purchased one that needs alittle work off of ebay and Getzen Capri is engraved on it along with a six digit serial number. I new to the sax so Iwould really appreciate any help I have got to find a mouthpiece for this thing.

[writeman]

Hi, I got a Getzen SUPER DELUXE Alto Sax for my son, but it is missing the neck. Anyone know where I might find one? I'm feeling hopeless on this. I'll include the write up on it below because if nothing else, I thought it interesting. I got it for $175, it arrived without the neck and they said they've searched everywhere for it and its no where to be found, but they are willing to do what they have to in order to make me happy on this. Thanks. Gordon


This Is A VINTAGE Getzen(Elkhorn Wis.USA) SUPER DELUXE Alto Sax/Saxophone With Buescher Case(see actual photos). The sax shows wear to the brass finish(scratches, some pitting) but I don't see any noticeable dings or dents. The pads seem ok, but I am by no means an expert(I'm a reseller of this instrument). The keys have mother of pearl inlay on them.The mouthpiece is a Bundy II by Selmer, and the serial number appears to be 6756, G75G, or G756 If you have any questions, don't hesitate to call one of our 1-800 numbers listed below. Thank You.

Since this was originally listed, many people have their opinion about what this sax really is. I have been told that it is a Dolnet stencil and that a stencil is a horn with another companies name. The Dolnet's are French engineered and the keyguards on this sax give it away as being that.I have been told that it is a Noblet . I have also been told that it is by Rampone and Cazzani of Italy, and this is a stencil of theirs. The giveaway on that is the keytouch for low C.I have someone else who says they are sure it is a Malerne alto, which is a good horn. Please feel free to give me any feedback about what you think it might truly be. It says Elkhorn, WIS. on it. I can't guarantee you what it is due to the tremendous amount of input and opinions, but it is an interesting saxaphone regardless!!

I just received some interesting and valuable information about this insrument from someone who lives in Elkhorn, Wisconsin-where the sax was made, and is engraved with that on it. What happened was there was a fire in the company in the late 1960's and Getzen then stopped production of all woodwind insruments. Most of their woodwind insruments were imported from Europe and have a Getzen disribution logo etched on them. Since this sax is etched with Elkhorn,Wis.-it makes it much more valuable-it has been estimated that it is worth at least $500, so you are getting a great deal on this!!

[JfW]

Hi, I got a Getzen SUPER DELUXE Alto Sax for my son, but it is missing the neck. Anyone know where I might find one? I'm feeling hopeless on this. I'll include the write up on it below because if nothing else, I thought it interesting. I got it for $175, it arrived without the neck and they said they've searched everywhere for it and its no where to be found, but they are willing to do what they have to in order to make me happy on this. Thanks. Gordon


Since it sounds like they sold it to you as a working instrument, the easiest thing they could do is give you your money back. A neck for an (unidentified) obscure instrument not manufactured for decades will be impossible to find, and modern manufactured replacement necks can cost a few times more than what you've paid for the horn. The only other alternative would be to try other necks you would have to purchase off places like ebay, which will be an expensive, time consuming, and frustrating excersize. And that solution won't guarantee you a horn that will play properly despite a good physical fit.

The best solution is to look for another horn for your son.

[DavyRay]

Two years later ...

I bought a Bb tenor sax via ebay recently:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=150277026507

It really looked like a Conn stencil in the auction. It has the Mercedes key guard on low C, adjustable RH thumb rest, spatula keys. The only jarring notes were the red rollers on spatula keys (yes, I know. I have other Italian saxophones), and the octave key, which has a round pearl on it.

The bell engraving says:

ELKHORN
DIST'D BY GETZEN
ELKHORN, WIS

On the back, at the RH thumb rest is the serial number

7466

Made In Italy
(this last in tiny letters)

[al9672]

I brought a getzen tenor earlier this year, was a bit of a saga(dodgy seller)

pics up at
www.alexthegeek.com/instruments/getzen

Where was the made in Italy located ?

It plays fairly well but needs a tune up and a few pads changed (low d leaks like a sieve)

[milandro]

that " Getzen " of yours is a Beautiful Rampone & Cazzani !

I am buying a Getzen today which is, I hope , a Buescher Aristocrat II stencil (giveaway are the flat guards), unforunately , no neck! :(......again

[al9672]

Thanks. Hopefully get it back on Wednesday from Bootman.
Just getting put into playing condition but will need an overhaul within six months or so.

That'll match my A Rampone alto I picked up for cheap.
Also have a Desidera tenor which no one seems to know much about.

Opinions on the older Italian saxes seem fairly mixed.

[Xanax]

that " Getzen " of yours is a Beautiful Rampone & Cazzani !

I am buying a Getzen today which is, I hope , a Buescher Aristocrat II stencil (giveaway are the flat guards), unforunately , no neck! :(......again


Hi, i have the "same" saxophone model with different engraving with the word "Buffet" on it. But by looking in saxpics.com it turned out it is a malerne sax! not Rampone & Cazzani ! or i'm wrong?

[milandro]

Hi, i have the "same" saxophone model with different engraving with the word "Buffet" on it. But by looking in saxpics.com it turned out it is a malerne sax! not Rampone & Cazzani ! or i'm wrong?

I think that you are because the Malerne had not the same brace, if I am not mistaken, that al9672's has .That Brace, to me, says Rampone. But for confirmation ask Rampone, they know.

[Xanax]

Hmm.. Yes my sax has a different brace, and slightly different octave key mechanism and pinky keys .So the sax tube and most parts came from malerne and rampone assembled with some variations?

[milandro]

No they are different horns, they just look similar but they are different. I do not believe Malerne and Rampone had anything to do with each other while I am sure that Rampone and Getzen did business together prior to the '60.

[mmstarke]

Hi, Deirdre,
I read your thread on the Getzen/Elkhorn alto sax - no 5494.
Recently I found one too,- same inscription like yours,- made in italy.
Do you know anything about where they are from and what the story is behind it.
From the recent posts it all sounds a bit vague.
Groeten uit Duitsland,- ik won in de buurt van Venlo. Misschien weten de goede mensen in de Saxofoon Winkel iets mier....
Michael

[al9672]

If anyone would like to buy a getzen tenor , send me a pm
as mine didn't sell.