Steve Goodson Model

[russps]

A couple weekends ago I went to the NAMM summer session. There were only two sax manufacturers there that I recognized, one of which was LA Sax. Of course Steve was there with a table of goodies, including a prototype Steve Goodson model alto.



As we approached the table an endorsing artist for a different maker was talking with Steve about the horn. Steve described the features of the horn from top to bottom for us. And showed us the few modifications that still have to be made before it goes into production (which weren’t many).

When I saw the horn the first thing I noticed was the rifled (or threaded, whichever term you prefer to use) neck opening. The octave vents were also threaded (to eliminate hiss). Moving down the horn, there is an altissimo octave key (similar to the Selmer Harmonic key, which I was told was discontinued because Selmer “couldn’t get it right). There is also a high G key. This model didn’t have the roller bis key or front F, but I was told production models would. Of course it also had a never stick G# spring and an F# helper. The bell/body brace has been repositioned; it is down further, closer to the E and D tone holes. This also eliminated the need for a large clothes guard; there is a small clothes guard above the brace. This allows the bell to resonate more. The Bb, B and C keys all have double arms.

Then I got to hold it. This is the first horn I picked up that had a saxgourmet thumb hook on it. It feels great, and I’m ordering a few of them soon. Key positioning felt great. The chromatic F# and high F# felt easier to reach than on other horns, and the high G felt great too.

I then handed the sax back to Steve. He then handed to the guy who was at the table before me (endorsing artist for another maker). He slapped on a mouthpiece and started playing it. Steve had him try the G key, and it had a bigger sound and was more in tune than using other altissimo fingerings. Then he started playing up in the altissimo register both with and without the altissimo octave key. The altissimo range sounded much fuller and projected better when using the additional octave key. This “endorsing artist” seemed quite surprised by this horn.

I wish I had played the sax, but I would have sounded like a fool playing after such a good player. Throughout the day I heard a few other people test out the horn, and it appeared that everyone was shocked by how well it played.

Before I left, Steve and I spoke a little more about the horn, his health and the band instrument industry as a whole. He also gave me a bottle of Mojo’s never stick pad powder. I treated my bari 2 weeks ago, and haven’t had any problems since (Chu with rolled tone holes. No, I haven’t put the Roo or Saxgourmet pads in it yet, but that would solve the problem).

If you’re looking to upgrade to a new horn, wait a few months and be sure to give this horn a test drive. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

[Hyman Irons]

I played it on Sunday at NAMM, and I was impressed. There were several other people gathered around the booth listening to Mr. Goodson, and all who played it said the same thing: amazing! The altissimo key and high G make the high notes easy. The horn was very heavy, and Mr. Goodson told me it was due to the alloy that was used. This is very different from any L.A. Sax I've seen before.

[russps]

I forgot to mention that it has (of course), saxgourmet pads with brass noyeks.

[tophatsax]

I was there on Friday and spent some time with Steve. I played the horn too and agree with the above reviews. I was most impressed with the intonation, which was spot on even for me (a tenor/bari player with little alto experience). The horn was heavy and solid.

Steve had two alto "mules", as he calls them, at the show. These are prototypes that he tweaks then adds the best features to the next prototype until final production time. The lacquer model had the rifled neck and the silver model didn't (other than that they were the same horn). He played them back to back and I immediately noticed the improvement to the sound that the rifling made.

I didn't know what to expect from these horns but was very impressed.

The only other Saxophones at the show (other than Asian manufacturers I had not heard of) were P. Mauriat

[MusicMedic]

I've had the pleasure of "watching" Steve design this saxophone. We've also shared many exciting phone conversations brainstorming various designs and design improvements. Sadly it seems I'm the only one that has not tried the horn!
It does appear that Steve Goodson and LA Sax are a great combination. I'm looking forward to seeing the completed models and giving them a try. There are certainly some new and exciting improvements on this saxophone. It's good to know that not all of the modern saxophones on the market are copies!

Disclaimer: Steve is a friend and those are my pads on that horn! :)

[Hyman Irons]

The thing I was most taken with which none of you guys mentioned was the speaker key that cleans up the intonation on the upper stack. It's not at all similar to the one on my Series 3 alto in that it's got no springs or mechanism. Steve said this was why the intonation was so good, and he was right!

[newking70]

will it be available with tiger stripes and leopard spots..... :laughing: but seriously will this be yet another still born project......alot of orders taken, with no product delivered :x

[gary]

I wasn't aware that prototypes were post-production items ready for distribution. I thought they were kind'a like a final draft of something.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I talked to Steve at NAMM and he indicated that LA Sax was going to be getting away from the colored finishes. I handled the a couple of the horns that he had on hand but did not play them. They were very much a work in progress as they did not have all of the modifications on them yet and some of the keywork modifications were being revised. With that said, the horn felt comfortable and the keywork spacing was good. I didn't feel that the second octave key was particularly comfortable but was told that it was being revised. With this in mind I think that the first post is pretty much on target.

I don't believe that this project will be still born. The horns will probably start shipping in a few months from what I gathered. Perhaps someone will get one in their hands for review and post it here.

[Jerry K.]

I hope LA Sax is moving cautiously. The Goodson model Unison didn't seem to work out so well for customers, Unison or Goodson. Has anyone heard much about Unison lately? I would imagine that spending over a year trying to introduce the SG model, only to give up after what has to be a very significant investment can't be good for any company. I'm not sure why that partnership fell apart but the whole fiasco has damaged both parties. If LA Sax goes down the overhype, don't deliver after taking deposits, drop the line after a large investment route, they may go bye bye. I got a call from a Unison dealer yesterday and he mentioned that Unison told them they were preparing to start stenciling horns - something I understand they haven't done in the past. Sad state of affairs when you feel your company name has been damaged to the point that you need to market your product under a different name to survive.

I know most of you guys that have posted in this thread "love" Steve but it seems to me that he is quite the enigma.

[Hyman Irons]

The Unison model didn't work out because (according to Steve and three other Unsion dealers I've talked with) the USA distributor wasn't filling dealers orders when they were placed, and were not paying people, including Steve. If dealers can't get product, and if staff doesn't get paid, what do you expect? Rheuben Allen in Hollywood left them for the same reasons as Steve: no horns, broken promise, no payments. Sam Bass Music in Austin got left holding the bag on a bunch of baris they sold to a school system but the distributor (C & L Music in San Fransisco) failed to deliver after lots of promises. The distributor would take orders, but for whatever reason, not deliver. Steve's function was designer, not manufacturer or distributor. He got left holding the preverbial bag like a lot of other dealers. He wasn't, so far as I've ever heard, an owner of the company, just an employee and a dealer.

The company that actually made the Unison horns is still very much in business. They've always made horns for other people, including Keilwerth, Evette, and quite a few others. They recently offered me a large package of horns.
The problem, according to them, was always in San Fransisco. I think they were having trouble getting paid as well. International business isn't always the easiest thing !

[gary]

Ya know, Hyman, you're an aquaintence (friend?) of SG and yet your response to the above criticisms was objective and not emotional. In a thread like this, and where this topic has gone in previous threads, I congratulate you. It's nice to read someone who knows what they're talking about can respond without adding even more speculation, opinion, and downright rumour mongering. Thanks.

[Morry]

Hmmm...a total of 5 posts contributed, and they are all in support of SG. Interesting........

[Hyman Irons]

I'm a friend, a competitor, and a customer. I sell his products at my business, and he's done some great repair and modification to some of my own horns. I've noticed that the mere mention of Steve's name around here brings out certain very predictable moths to the flame. It's always the same ones, and they always say the same things. This thread was started to talk about the horn, but several regular moths immediately attempted to hijack it into a discussion about Steve and a discussion about Unison, which has nothing to do with this horn.

I sell musical instruments from a retail store in a large city (which I won't dare mention for fear of bringing out the aforementioned moths to the flame) and I thought it was interesting to see what you could do differently with a saxophone. Most horns (the so called "gang of four" and all their copiers) are basically the same. Russ started a discussion about something being done that was very different, but the discussion has gotten away from what's different or better or worse. No questions about the altissimo key, the high G mechanism, the speaker vent, the rifled neck, the neat bell brace, or any of the other features, just with the sole exceptions of Hurling and myself, inane or off topic comments. I plan to sell these horns in my store, as do some other retailers I know and have talked about this with. I'd like to know if anybody out there really wants a saxophone that does some things differently, or is everybody content with things always being the same, be it a name brand from the gang of four or an Asian copy of one of their horns. The Unison was a very interesting horn that had some great ideas on it, you just couldn't get them in quantity. Here we have a major brand stepping up to the plate and offering consumers an option. They're also going to be very reasonably priced, so players will be able to afford them. The dealer structure is such that it will be a lot more viable proposition than say, selling Gang of Four horns, because the web based retailers have driven the prices down to the point to where the local store, such as myself, can't make any money on selling them. NAMM was full of rumors that the Gang of Four is about to become the Gang of Three, so from where I stand it would seem that there is going to be place in the market for an inovative instrument at a reasonable price. Everyone who I spoke with who had tried the horn was quite impressed, particularly with the intonation. I think the next few months will be very interesting to see how this product is recieved. LA Sax, with the backing of some prominent retailers, is planning to make a big splash with this line, and based on what I've seen and have been told, I believe that a major success is coming their way.

[Hyman Irons]

Hmmm...a total of 5 posts contributed, and they are all in support of SG. Interesting........


And your point is? :?

[newking70]

hyman irons = steve goodson :D

[retread]

NAMM was full of rumors that the Gang of Four is about to become the Gang of Three
Which of the big four is rumored to be going?

[Hyman Irons]

Keilwerth stopped making their own bodies and bells some time ago. They import them, and their keywork. They have quit using the old Keilwerth plant and now assemble horns at the Schrieber basson factory. The Music Group has been trying to sell the division for some time, but nobody wants them due to high labor costs and low sales.

[Jerry K.]

I'm guessing Keilwerth as the most likely to depart this world. Manufacturing costs in Germany are out of this world and I believe they've been struggling for years. It would be a very sad day to see Keilwerth go the way of B&S and Kohlert, leaving no German sax makers. Once gone they will likely never return!

As for all posts being in support of SG, my post was not intended as such, though I'm not a regular SG basher. I think he has made a significant contribution to the sax community over the years but he has more recently become a victim of his own success and ego. His site has very little traffic as compared to SOTW and I think that is why he "acts out" from time to time, and generally bashes this site, it's moderators, and some of it's regular contributors. He has attempted to take on this site and lost badly.

As for why the Unison/Goodson marriage failed, I'm sure there is a long list of reasons and I doubt SG is blameless as you have suggested Hyman. After reading numerous customer accounts here regarding deposits sitting in limbo for a very long time, less than advertised performance, etc., I would never buy the new LA Sax SG Model unless I could play one in person and buy it on the spot. I would never consider putting a deposit on one in advance of it's release. Given history (often a good indication of the future) one would be crazy to do so, no matter what they hear about the new wonder horn.

[retread]

Hyman, that's interesting. Do you know where the bodies, keys and bells are from?

[Morry]

Keilwerth stopped making their own bodies and bells some time ago. They import them, and their keywork. They have quit using the old Keilwerth plant and now assemble horns at the Schrieber basson factory. The Music Group has been trying to sell the division for some time, but nobody wants them due to high labor costs and low sales.

I would be interested in Randall's response to this, as he was just in the Keilweth factory last week, I believe.

[kcp]

:)

[Pete]

From what my minions (just joking, folks. Don't hurt me.) have told me, the SX-90 is the only real "Keilwerth" "Keilwerth" -- that is, it's primarily designed by Keilwerth. There are some rumors -- I have not been able to confirm -- that there are more and more components (keywork, not bodies) of the SX90 being made by Amati, as the EX90 is.

The ST90 is made in the ROC: Republic of China. No rumor there: it's stamped on the horn.

In a sense, things have been bad for Keilwerth for a couple of years: Boosey & Hawkes sold out a couple years ago and created Musicgroup, of which Keilwerth is a part. Recently a couple of folks (http://www.rutlandpartners.com/code/news_detail.asp?ID=96) bought Buffet -- a part of Muisicgroup.

Considering Keilwerth did a goood deal of saxophone work for Buffet (most notably the Expression models, but there were rumors that the S3 became an almost wholly Keilwerth-made horn), this can't be a good thing.

At the very least, a conglomerate is losing a big money-maker in Buffet.

Also remember that Keilwerth survived for a LONG time as an independent. No reason to think it can't become that again.

There are lots more comments about Keilwerth, LA Sax and Buffet in the Sax Makes and Models area (http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=9).

[Pete]

<snip> As for all posts being in support of SG, my post was not intended as such, though I'm not a regular SG basher. I think he has made a significant contribution to the sax community over the years but he has more recently become a victim of his own success and ego. His site has very little traffic as compared to SOTW and I think that is why he "acts out" from time to time, and generally bashes this site, it's moderators, and some of it's regular contributors. He has attempted to take on this site and lost badly.

As for why the Unison/Goodson marriage failed, I'm sure there is a long list of reasons and I doubt SG is blameless as you have suggested Hyman. After reading numerous customer accounts here regarding deposits sitting in limbo for a very long time, less than advertised performance, etc., I would never buy the new LA Sax SG Model unless I could play one in person and buy it on the spot. I would never consider putting a deposit on one in advance of it's release. Given history (often a good indication of the future) one would be crazy to do so, no matter what they hear about the new wonder horn.Goodson has used quotations from this website -- without Harri's permission, at the very least -- to advertise the Unison product. That's a bit of an unresolved conflict, but kinda moot now, as the SG Unison model has been dropped from Unison's website and the website itself has been completely redesigned.

I have the impression that Unison changed hands since Goodson was their "Sales Manager, Chief Designer, & Endorsing Artist Liason" (title Goodson used in his e-mails for awhile).

There's no possible way I could encapsulate the entire Goodson/Unison debacle and how it relates to SOTW, but I can certinaly say that, based on Better Business Bureau reports, as well as comments from other people that have done business with Goodson (I document both HERE (http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=201918&postcount=18)), I definitely agree with the comment that even if this is the best horn ever made, I would not put a deposit on one: I'd ONLY buy it outright ON THE SPOT and NOT from Goodson himself.

Make sure you check the BBB report from the dealer you would buy from, anyhow.

[Jerry K.]

Saxpics, not to split hairs, but the Chacago Jazz horns were made by B&S. I have a black nickel with silver plated keys and it's all B&S. With B&S ceasing saxophone production recently perhaps Keilwerth has assumed production for this brand?

[newking70]

Keilwerth stopped making their own bodies and bells some time ago. They import them, and their keywork. They have quit using the old Keilwerth plant and now assemble horns at the Schrieber basson factory. The Music Group has been trying to sell the division for some time, but nobody wants them due to high labor costs and low sales.
i have heard the same thing from someone who used to work at the keilwerth factory :cry: ....... i mean they sold off rico reeds to the d'addairo.......maybe some of the keilwerth managment will do like harley davidson did and buy back the company, and we can go back to seeing an independant company...maybe the elections in germany will bring back a more business friendly government.....i think this so called global economy is a bunch of hooey.....everything made by slave labor in china :angry4: ....while some greedy s.o.b. of a c.e.o. makes millions...........sorry for the rant 8-)

[Jerry K.]

.....i think this so called global economy is a bunch of hooey.....everything made by slave labor in china ....while some greedy s.o.b. of a c.e.o. makes millions...........sorry for the rant Rant or not, the global economy definately has it's down side. Really sad to see how one industry after another goes offshore to produce or source their products. The problem is that once one company (driven by greedy s.o.b. and c.e.o. types) makes the move they have a competitive advantage and this forces others to follow suit or risk loss of market share. At the current rate I doubt the U.S. will make much of anything in another 20 years.

[Sax Hut]

I would never buy the new LA Sax SG Model unless I could play one in person and buy it on the spot. I would never consider putting a deposit on one in advance of it's release. Given history (often a good indication of the future) one would be crazy to do so, no matter what they hear about the new wonder horn.

Amen!

[Pete]

Saxpics, not to split hairs, but the Chacago Jazz horns were made by B&S. I have a black nickel with silver plated keys and it's all B&S. With B&S ceasing saxophone production recently perhaps Keilwerth has assumed production for this brand?I got my German manufacturers screwed up. Sorry 'bout that and thanks for the correction. (I at least got it right when I subtitled the LA Sax area!)

Searching this 'site: B&S seems to be searching for another factory (http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24407) to produce horns. It'd be nice if it was Keilwerth.

Checked the rest of my post and I think I'm OK :D.

[AG]

oh well, if at first you don't succeed.....since the mistakes of the previous endeavor are well documented perhaps those, at least won't be repeated, allowing them to build on what worked or went right and avoid those other. if the horn can be built as well and play as well as this thread would seem/want to suggest and still be cost effective it might have a chance, providing it can be sold at a reasonable & fair price and still make a profit enuf to cover expenses....the adulation of those posting here singing it's praises would seem to be pretty good press. is the horn in production yet at all....if so how many of you so far has one.......anyone at all? if it's not in production then this is sorta like sighing at the wishing well, and we'll have to wait until it's in the music stores and a decent number of players are trying them (really tryin em)& get a more varied section of people's opinions....I would think you could tell from the sales though; word of mouth travels fast.

all things in due time......it won't be long

[jahjahjahjah]

There's no possible way I could encapsulate the entire Goodson/Unison debacle and how it relates to SOTW, but I can certinaly say that, based on Better Business Bureau reports, as well as comments from other people that have done business with Goodson (I document both HERE (http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=201918&postcount=18)), I definitely agree with the comment that even if this is the best horn ever made, I would not put a deposit on one: I'd ONLY buy it outright ON THE SPOT and NOT from Goodson himself.

Make sure you check the BBB report from the dealer you would buy from, anyhow.

Checking the BBB is a good idea in any "cold" research shopping, but - some people may be unaware of this - the BBB is a pay service. Businesses have to pay $300+ annually for membership.

If you do research on a business that has plenty of business (and hence no reason to pay an annual fee), and no complaints against them in the past, you will not see a listing for that business.

In other words, some of the "best" businesses (in terms of lack of complaints, and word of mouth volume) will not be checkable on the BBB.

[AG]

what you say about some of the better businesses not having one on file may well be the case as they would have no complaints unresolved, however, a business with questionable & unscrupulous practices that leave people feeling cheated, and who do file numerous complaints & protests will have a file, a long one with a long history & record of unresolved disputes. Pete is absolutely correct in his findings. I have seen the same report myself several times, and it's even been circulated around on the internet. it's there, <check for> yourself

[Pete]

Goodson has "countered" the BBB report in the past by saying that it's a pay service and that's why the negative report, but AG is absolutely correct in saying that the BBB wouldn't post something like,

Better Business Bureau of Greater New Orleans Area, Inc.
1539 Jackson Avenue, Suite 400
New Orleans, LA 70130
(504)581-6222

BBB Reliability Report

GOODSON STEVE WOODWINDS LLC
2238 GENERAL PERSHING STREET
NEW ORLEANS, LA 70115

General Information

Principal : MANAGER
Phone Number: (504) 895-6859
BBB Membership: This company is not a member
Type-of-Business Classification: Musical Instruments-Dealers

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unanswered complaint(s).

This company has had a pattern of complaints involving non-delivery of instruments sent to the company for repair.

When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.

Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 36 Months: 5
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 2


Complaints Concerned
Sales Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Company did not respond: 1

Repair or Service Issues: 2
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 2

Refund or Exchange Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Company did not respond: 1

Contract Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Company did not respond: 1

Report as of 08/27/2005
Copyright 2005 Better Business Bureau of Greater New Orleans Area, Inc

As a matter of policy, the Better Business Bureau does not endorse any product, service or company. BBB reports generally cover a three-year reporting period, and are provided solely to assist you in exercising your own best judgment. Information contained herein is believed reliable but not guaranteed as to accuracy. Reports are subject to change at any time.

The Better Business Bureau reports on members and non-members. Membership in the BBB is voluntary, and members must meet and maintain BBB standards. If a company is a member of this BBB, it is stated in this report.
(Which is even MORE information than the last time I checked, btb.) Because that would be LIBEL.

There are also the other personal, DOCUMENTED, reports referenced in http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=201918, plus Goodson no longer being listed on the NABIRT website.

In any event, THIS THREAD should be about discussing the horn itself. If you want to discuss Goodson's business, go HERE (http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27110) -- and read my Announcement about libel (http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26839), first.

Additionally, my opinion still stands: even if the Goodson horn is the best thing ever created, I wouldn't buy from Goodson himself, but a dealer I had verified had no complaints lodged against him through the BBB or similar. I also would ONLY pay via cash or credit card, no lay-aways, no trade ins -- and triply verify that there's a good warranty.

[rfenno]

I haven't been here in a long time, since I was drawn into the Unison Goodson model mess last year. But I thought this would be a good chance to put in my two bits. Steve is well, under the circumstances, and trying to put his business and his life together after Hurricane Katrina nearly wiped him off the map. He's still a good friend of mine and the most brilliant practitioner of the black art of saxophone modification I ever met. At the risk of being flamed (you'd have flamed me by now I think) my relationship with Unison USA was that I designed their print advertising and web stuff. That's done. I haven't worked for Unison for a year and a half or maybe a little more, and there is no more Unison USA. There is still a Unison in Taiwan, and I hope a USA distributor is named soon, because they make excellent products.

I wanted too to echo the comments above about the summer NAMM prototypes of the LA Sax Goodson alto. I visited the distributor last Friday and spent about 30 minutes on the horn--a silver plate. Beautiful horn, scupted 4-point brace, BIG tone holes. The altissimo octave key adds a new dimension to the high range. I was skeptical when I heard it had been added. You can hit the altissimo notes using the regular octave key, but the sound is demonstrably more brilliant and the note easier to hit with the "third" octave key.

The speaker key works to make the transition easier between registers. The horn plays as loud as you can blow into it, and my Mk 6 alto which I was A-B'ing with could not keep up on the extreme end of the wind tunnel scale. (I play mostly bari and bass, so that can be a problem for me on alto.)

The fit and finish were excellent. They are made in the PRC so they will be priced at the dealers' very aggresssively I assume. The alto feels just right and its features merit more time than I had to devote to it last Friday.

There are enough features on this instrument to make it at least worthy of consideration when production is ramped (winter NAMM is the target).

You may not love Goodson. You may have heard from some of the posts here that he's a scoundrel. (I beg to differ as someone who was just outside the circle on that one. Most problems grew out of the distributor's inability to distribute.)

But, again at the risk of being flamed, who else do you know who can design two really advanced saxophones in 3 years that are totally different concepts? Steve's not just talking advancing saxophones, he's doing it.

What do we know about the personal lives and business dealings of the designers of the mighty Selmer Mark 6? Were they saints? I doubt it. They were, after all, French.

Now pardon me as I tip-toe out of here.

[Harri Rautiainen]

But, again at the risk of being flamed, who else do you know who can design two really advanced saxophones in 3 years that are totally different concepts? Steve's not just talking advancing saxophones, he's doing it.There are many people who can design saxophones. Only a few who can deliver.
What do we know about the personal lives and business dealings of the designers of the mighty Selmer Mark 6? Were they saints? I doubt it. They were, after all, French.
I am objecting strongly this type of racism and bigotry.
Now pardon me as I tip-toe out of here.So you do. All the best to your master.

[Jerry K.]

So you do. All the best to your master.Classic!

[MJ]

And in the best spirit of the season.

[AG]

cracked me up, nearly died laughing

[Stacey]

So, um, to ask a fairly basic question... Has anyone purchased and received one of these new LA Sax horns? I mean real production models, not prototypes?

Some of the marketing information mentioned that production on these was to begin "pretty much immediately after NAMM", which was in mid to late July 2005. That was written just a couple of days before the NAMM show, so presumably the thing was "ready to be produced" at the time the statement was made.

It would certainly be nice to read a review of an actual production horn (alto or tenor) written by an average Joe Consumer with no ties to the music industry. Anybody care to share?

[AG]

with no ties? an ambitious request methinks, lol. but then who knows, we might actually get one if & when these horns are put into production & marketed. still, a piano falling from heaven playing "Who'd Have Thought It" comes to mind.

[Stacey]

I tried but was unable to find any mention of these horns through the www.lasax.com website (although that is the website listed on the advertisement for these horns that is posted at the designer's Advertising Forum).

I have emailed LA Sax, using the "contact us" address given on the www.lasax.com website, but haven't yet received a reply. I just inquired as to pricing and availability date.

The summer NAMM show is almost four months behind us now, so I would think "immediately after NAMM" has come and gone.

I just grow weary of reading testimonials and reviews of a horn that still apparently doesn't exist beyond the prototype stage, testimonials and reviews written by people who are either 1) music industry folks able to legally gain admission to NAMM, etc., 2) friends of music industry folks who are able to illegally gain admission to those shows, 3) friends of the designer who are able to arrange admission to the Garden District, or 4) people with business interests involved.

What I really, really want to read are reviews of production horns, written by wannabe hacks like myself, people with no involvement with this or any other manufacturer, very average players who stand to gain a LOT if some of these features turn out to be worth paying for. I don't really care if Michael Brecker or Arno Bornkamp or Branford Marsalis love a particular horn - those guys could sound good shoving a Dukoff onto a garden hose. But if "Joe" from my community band reports that with Horn X, all of a sudden he can play low notes, and the director no longer gives him dirty looks because of poor intonation, then that's something I'd like to know.

As of right now, Joe from the band probably stands a better chance of finding a mint Grafton, a Loomis alto prototype, and an F-mezzo than of buying this model. I hope that changes soon.

In all fairness, I guess the advertisement I read just said "immediately after NAMM"; it did NOT say "immediately after NAMM 2005".

OK, I'll go back to my other hobby - waiting for Selmer to introduce the Reference 74 alto and tenor, modeled after the great Mark VII. 8-)

[edited to say "with NO involvement", rather than "with involvement" - sorry]

[Steve J.]

Stacey, thanks for the most enjoyable post I've read in a long time. Right on as well as satirical. Bravo.

[Bill Mecca]

I tried one of those models, blew like a dream... then I woke up.;)

great post Stacey.

[Mike Ruhl]

OK, I'll go back to my other hobby - waiting for Selmer to introduce the Reference 74 alto and tenor, modeled after the great Mark VII. 8-):sign5: Now that's funny!

btw, the fellow pictured below reports he has actually seen an SG horn:
http://corvinae.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/ghost-thumb.jpg

[Stacey]

Really, I'm not joking: I want a Reference 74.

[Mike Ruhl]

OK, I'll feed your sick fantasy...

Did you know that the boys at Tenor Madness offer an antiqued finish, just like what comes on the Ref. 54? And - this is the best part - they have a really early serial-numbered Mark VII tenor for sale!

You could have buy the Mark VII, have them apply the Ref 54 finish, then tell everybody it is the new Ref 74!

http://www.tenormadness.com/priceList.asp for info on the Ref 54 finish - scroll to the bottom

http://www.tenormadness.com/productList.asp?category=vintage for the Mark VII tenor, again down at the bottom

[SactoPete]

Ooooh, and it might even be one of those without much engraving... which is even better - you could have it custom-engraved with a stylized Ref. 74 and really make people trip! That would be sooooo cool.

[Mike Ruhl]

no such luck...

http://www.tenormadness.com/images/productFullsize/236083SelmerMVIItranstenorPRob1.jpg

[Sax Hut]

LA Sax's position, for what it's worth....

Gentleman who answered the phone at Orpheus Music (LA Sax distributor) just moments ago sez...

Yes, Steve Goodson sax models are in production.

Market debut is tentatively scheduled for this year-end, but the nuance on timing was "iffy."

The alto will be retail priced at around $2500, so expect it to sell for under $2000 street. No pricing mentioned per the tenor.

[Whoa, my 500th post.... I never thought I'd be so full of BS...]

[Stacey]

Congratulations, wind.miller - I hadn't looked in a while, but I see this will be #523 for me! I guess that makes me 5% more full of BS than you!

Hehe - wonderful ideas for the Ref 74, folks. My VII alto is indeed unengraved, and would be a perfect candidate. A nice antiqued finish, and a full set of custom Dumars "Ref 74" engraving... that would be awesome, except for one thing: I love my lacquered finish, especially the parts around the keys where it is totally worn away. You see, I bought the horn new, and every bit of that missing lacquer is my proof that I once was as serious about the saxophone as any boy can possibly be. Proof that I once was a "player", rather than just a hack. So I'll choose to keep my worn lacquer and my unengraved horn, because the worn lacquer gives a stronger testimonial than a whole wall full of contest medals could.

That's good news about the LA Sax production ramping up - let's cross our fingers and hope the product is a worthy competitor for the stuff already in the marketplace. Whether you love or hate the designer of any particular model, there's one thing of which I'm confident - everybody here would welcome another good saxophone design, whatever its source.

[Sax Hut]

I guess that makes me 5% more full of BS than you!

Nahh, the BS factor isn't linear.:D

That's good news about the LA Sax production ramping up

If you believe it........not sure I do! I guess I'll believe it when the horns start selling through LA Sax's usual channels (WWBW etc....). I sure won't be standing in line, holding my breath though.

[Grumps]

Really, I'm not joking: I want a Reference 74.

With modern keywork?

[Jimmy Carpenter]

I’ve just read this thread top to bottom, and at the risk of once again igniting the fires, and since the quest for someone who has actually seen/held/played a SG Model LA Sax appears to be ongoing, I will again jump in the fray. My qualifications are: I have made a living playing saxophone for 25 years, I have actually seen, held, played, and now purchased the horn; I’ve done business with Steve for 8 years, always to my satisfaction; I consider Steve and Sharon friends; I own several tenors, including a ’70 Mark VI, a ’41 Zephyr, and 2 late 30’s 10m’s, one of which is my main horn. I live in New Orleans, a town (still) full of guys that totally eat my lunch daily, and I count myself extremely fortunate just to be around them, much less work with them.

I have just come home from Steve’s ravaged shop with an LA Sax Steve Goodson model, one of the transitional models that I think precedes the finished product that is due out soon. Mine does not have the altissimo octave key, the 3 ring strap hook or the deluxe thumb hook that will be on the newest model. It does however, have a high F# and G keys, and the speaker key between the A & B tone holes. I don’t begin to understand the physics involved, but the horn really plays beautifully. The action is fast and it feels good. I’ll probably build up the palm keys a little to fit my long hand. The intonation is outstanding, the sound is very even bottom to top, the upper register is easy to play and in tune, and the altissimo speaks easily, especially the G, which has always been a problem for me. It is actually louder and clearer than the A above it, rather than the other way around. Before deciding on one I played 5 or 6, all of which were great, but the one I bought seemed a little stronger, slightly louder and less resistant. I am a honker, and volume is important to me, since New Orleans sound systems are generally somewhat lacking. The horn appears to be very well-made, although time will tell. It is considerably heavier than my ’39 10m, but not as heavy as my 41 Zephyr.

I also saw a prototype bari with all the bells and whistles. Although I wasn’t able to actually play it, I did hold it and the action was very smooth and fast, more like a tenor. And his prototype soprano had also just arrived, 2 necks and special keywork. I know nothing about sopranos, and I did not play it, but it is a beautiful horn.

The last time I posted about Steve’s products I had just played his Unison model. In my opinion, as one of the people that actually played it, it was a great horn. This LA Sax model is an extension of the design changes that Steve has worked on for years. Say what you want, I have done business with Steve and Sharon for a long time and have always been happy. And this horn is worth a look. Personally I won’t buy any horn that I haven’t played and played a lot. Also worth a try are his reeds. I’ve been playing them for the last few months, and although they are expensive, so far for me they have been worth it, mostly because they are very consistent. I’ve played about 30, they ALL played at least OK, and all but maybe 5 were gig worthy with no adjustments. 2 more were fine after some fine tuning, and the others were fine for practice.

You can reach me for comments or questions at jimicrpntr@aol.com.

[Mike Ruhl]

Steve Goodson? He's a great bunch of guys...

[Grumps]

I live in New Orleans...

Left D.C. then, eh?

[Stacey]

That's all fine, but it still lacks two elements I'm looking for:

1. A production horn. (Not "transitional", but "production", the kind I would get if I walked into a random L.A. Sax dealership.)
2. A John Doe player from Anytown, USA.

Still, I'm glad you like the horn, Jimmy. That's nice to hear.

[Jimmy Carpenter]

Left D.C. then, eh?

I left DC in February of last year, proving yet again that I have impeccable timing.

The sax I bought came straight from the LA Sax factory along with several others just like it, but you're right, it isn't the totally finished production model.

[Grumps]

...proving yet again that I have impeccable timing.

No one doubts that. You do have great timing.
Sorry I never caught your act when you were playing nearby.
Are gigs opening up in New Orleans? Any place you'll be playing soon? Then maybe folks who are interested can see the horn in action.

[Jimmy Carpenter]

Are gigs opening up in New Orleans? Any place you'll be playing soon?

There is music happening here, not like before but there are lots musicians back home again. A lot of Uptown didn't flood, so the clubs are opening up, the Quarter is open, Frenchman Street is about 75%. But there are only 60k people here (maybe), and NO tourists. Life is most definitely not back to normal and won't be for a very long time.

I am very blessed on several fronts, my house came through pretty much fine, and I've been playing with Walter "Wolfman" Washington, who is the real New Orleans deal and a great guy to work with. We're frequently at The Maple Leaf (most Saturdays), Wednesdays at DBA, Sundays at Lounge Lizards. Other than that I'm playing blues on Frenchman St at The Apple Barrell 12/23&30, and some tentative gigs with The Sophisticats, a 50's instrumental band complete with go-go girls, also a blast. So life goes on, everything here is up in the air, all we can do is work and hope and wait. And I AM going to play the SG tonight at The Maple Leaf. And thanks for asking!

[1saxman]

Well, I'll be damned - an actual working professional sax man! The best of everything to you, Jimmy! I've owned a Taiwan soprano for a handful of years, and my bari player has a Taiwan bari. Regardless of who designed the SG, it's still made in Taiwan. There are numerous things wrong with all Taiwan saxes that I have seen. One of my biggest concerns is the keywork, which is not hammer-forged like Selmer, and tends to be very delicate. Quality and type of soldering and brazing is another. Some of them seem to have great designs and a lot of promise, like the P. Mauriat that is available without high F#, but at the core of them is the fact of where they are made. Self-adhesive corks and felts that shift and fall out, hot glue pad cement, pencil eraser key bumpers, etc., etc. The bari I mentioned had the thumbrest fall off soon after getting it. Turns out the 'Selmer-style' thumbrest, instead of having a brazed-on threaded stud, had a stud soft-soldered into the base. No rational man would expect that to last for five minutes, and it didn't. I just set the thumbhook like the guy liked it and epoxied the hook to the base. Is the SG different? Is it for real, like a Paris or vintage American horn? I doubt it.

[Grumps]

Is the new one being made in Taiwan or China?

[hornimprovement]

Rheuben Allen in Hollywood left them for the same reasons as Steve: Hyman, you may want to reexamine the validity of that comment. I just spoke with Rheuben last week. He is very much at the helm of Hollywood Winds (Unison's new name) and is excited about the new models to be featured at NAMM in a few weeks. -Jeff

[hornimprovement]

I didn't want to get off the topic, but just had to set the record straight regarding Rheuben.
Regarding the topic,SG has sent pictures of the progress made on his new LA Sax project, and I look forward to checking it out firsthand at NAMM.-Jeff

[Pinnman]

Looking back over past posts here, and the comments about the fall of Boosey & Hawkes, the latest news in UK papers is that Besson (the renamed brass Division of B&H) has closed with all staff being made redundant. A further tragedy for a great name in instrument manufacture.

[Bob M]

Jimmy - Glad to hear you're OK!

For those who aren't familiar with Jimmy, he played tenor with guitarist Jimmy Thackery's band for several years. Check out "Crazy 'bout a Saxophone" on Thackery's CD "True Stories" to hear some terrific Purvis Henson influenced honking tenor. Last time I corresponded with Jimmy, his primary set-up was a Jon Van Wie HR Berg on a 10M.

[Joe Jazz]

I have a client that owns one of the new LASAX/SG altos and he said he loves it......he keeps it next to his medication......which is next to his bed........you know, the bed he says he sleeps in every night with Marilyn Monroe........you know...;)

[Joe Jazz]

I forgot to mention that my client said he got a great deal on it, because they applied his previous deposit on an SG/Unison + interest......he got the new sax for free.......:shock:

[pknight]

With interest on an SG/Unison deposit, he must have gotten one of the $6,000 "Saxgourmet" models.

[Joe Jazz]

He said it came with a picture of a Whopper engraved on the bell, so yes it must have been the saxgourmet model.....

[gary]

He said it came with a picture of a Whopper engraved on the bell, so yes it must have been the saxgourmet model.....
...or the John Holmes model. :shock:

[Joe Jazz]

Not that kind of Whopper!:king:

[rfenno]

Is the new one being made in Taiwan or China?

I just thought I'd set the record straight that I have no idea where the SG La Sax is made, nor do I have any clue where Selmer is making its product now. I'm out on a ship in the Caribbean and it's hard to follow the leads as they thread through this forum, but while Steve and I talk often, this issue hasn't come up, and I wouldn't be interested in knowing anyway.

I wish there were saxophones still made in Elkhart but that's not how things turned out. (Most of them were made by Swiss watchmakers' apprentices anyway.)

Hope this clears things up. Once I'm back on land I'll try to slog through the threads and clear anything up.

BTW, Steve is at the TMEA convention in San Antonio today, showing these very saxophones and the whole line of LA Sax in the Orpheus booth.

Later,

Richard Fenno,
now sailing out of Galveston

[Harri Rautiainen]

I forgot to mention that my client said he got a great deal on it, because they applied his previous deposit on an SG/Unison + interest......he got the new sax for free.......:shock:I do not understand. :?:
He paid the deposit out of his own pocket. How did he get the new sax for free? Was there an alternative; like getting back the deposit?

[Grumps]

They are made in the PRC so they will be priced at the dealers' very aggresssively I assume.

I just thought I'd set the record straight that I have no idea where the SG La Sax is made...

Actually, you're confusing the record.

[Stacey]

Looks like the pod people have already gotten him, Grumps. Further attempts to gain useful information would be a waste of time.

Just be careful not to fall asleep, or a pod will grow outside YOUR window, too.

[Joe Jazz]

Harri....it was just a joke, man.........you know I have a bit of the court jester in me......:D

[playitfunky]

Too funny that anyone would put a deposit down on a horn that is an unknown commodity. Steve Goodson sort of seems like a mad scientist to me and reminds me of doc bennett from back to the future. So unless you are crazy why spend money on anything but an established brand. Until these wonder horns are in stores and people can play them its all hype. I've never done bussiness with Goodson but it doesnt seem good to have a bad better biz report and a bunch of people who never got orders filled.

[Morry]

I just got the email from SG promoting the new Saxgourmet model horns. The hyperbole sounds just like what was said about the SG line of Unison horns. However, the new horns aren't just premium saxes, they are "Super Premium".

[Grumps]

Write him back and ask where they're made...

[Morry]

Write him back and ask where they're made...

The last time I conversed with SG was to ask him to take me off his mailing list. You see how that turned out.

[gary]

I just got the email from SG promoting the new Saxgourmet model horns. ...they are "Super Premium".
"Super Premium"? LOL!

What's next - a Jumbo Whopper?

[Bill Mecca]

Are they Ten times Better?

I've blocked his spam.

[Grumps]

What's next - a Jumbo Whopper?

You just might get one of those if you ask where they're made...

[Stacey]

"Super Premium"? LOL!

What's next - a Jumbo Whopper?

I wonder if they are exquisite and larruping. I'm done buying non-larruping saxophones, so I hope these larrup like nobody's business!

[Sax Hut]

Whip it good now....


From the American Heritage online...

TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: lar·ruped, lar·rup·ing, lar·rups
To beat, flog, or thrash.
NOUN: A blow.
ETYMOLOGY: Perhaps from Dutch larpen, to slap, thrash, from larp, rod, whip.

Now the question for linguists.... What Chinese source word did their machine translation software render as "larruping"?

[Stacey]

I'm guessing it was some phrase along the lines of "kicks *****". That's just a couple of near synonyms away from beating, flogging, or thrash. An awesome kicka$$ horn probably translated as "an exquisite larruping instrument".

The definition of larrup I most enjoyed was "to give a spanking to".


Your friend: "Dude, your new saxophone really spanks!"

You: "Thanks, amigo. I tried lots of horns, and found that none of them spank quite like the new Saxgourmand models!"

[Sax Hut]

http://cgi.ebay.com/la-sax-steve-goodson-model-tenor_W0QQitemZ270075902651QQihZ017QQcategoryZ1623 4QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this a "real" one, or an "imitation"? That label on the side of the bell looks kinda like the adhesive variety.....

[Joe Jazz]

Na, looks like a first grader got hold of a stencil and some white out. Very professional looking. Answers the burning question.."does it come with white walls?":D

[zivley]

I wonder if they are exquisite and larruping. I'm done buying non-larruping saxophones, so I hope these larrup like nobody's business!

I know this is a very old thread, but somehow it keeps coming back to life once in a while, and this one about the "larruping" got me LMAO!!
So funny, where did you get that sentence from???

Now to something else, regarding the Steve Goodson LA Sax.
I've heard from someone that has a lot of experience and knowledge about horns and craftsmanship, and what he had to say about those horns was "One of the most well made easy playing, great sound and high tech modern horns"

Why are you all bashing on Steve Goodson and LA Sax? They're very nice horns!
I guess most of SOTW posters here think that if it's not vintage, then it's crap?
"How old is your horn, 20 years?? BAHHH, too modern, find and older one, the more rusty the better, and don't mind if it's an old mark VI where the altissimo is almost impossible to manage unless you play horn for 50 years..."

Now seriously, putting that I need to buy a horn today, and I don't find any vintage horn, what would you say it's a good modern horn that is well made and has it's better value for money??

[hakukani]

I've used the word larrupin' for years, as did my father and grandfather to mean:

'especially of food: delicious, larruping good.'

They also used 'plum' to mean 'completely', as in 'I'm plum tired o' you, boy.'

edit: I just realized someone may thing the previous sentence was a personal comment. It's not. It's what my Dad use to say to me a lot.:)

[Carl H.]

SG, the man, has a history of personality/business issues with this site and certain members. We generally leave those issues buried, unless he shows up here in some disguise trying to sell something or generally stir up trouble. As he is known to do.

[rispoli]

Why are you all bashing on Steve Goodson and LA Sax? They're very nice horns!
I guess most of SOTW posters here think that if it's not vintage, then it's crap?

Maybe we deserve better consideration than this. This is just oversimplifying the subject.


Now seriously, putting that I need to buy a horn today, and I don't find any vintage horn, what would you say it's a good modern horn that is well made and has it's better value for money??

I own both vintage (3) and a modern tenor (selmer III). If I have to play safe I take the serie III without hesitation. Very reliable, easy to play and a great, flexible sound. I honestly can't find defects to it.
I recommend you to look for one of those in the used market. You can find often some going for 2500$ or less (I got mine for 2100$ and sold my Mark VI a bit after) which is less than a brand new and reputable taiwanese unit.

[Dave Dolson]

zivley: The "larrupping" comes from a very poorly worded eBay auction years ago where the seller was obviously not an English-speaker/writer and advertised some obviously poorly-made/cheap saxophones. It was one of a few descriptive phrases this fellow used to describe his wonderful products.

As far as Goodson's saxophones, you should probably more thoroughly read this site for details. I won't repeat all or any of it.

For saxophone values, that can go all directions. I'm one who thinks you get what you pay for (generally speaking, that is). There are sections here that discuss many of the known brands - read them.

If there was one brand that I'd recommend it would be Yanagisawa, but you will read different recomendations - as many different as there are posters. DAVE

[Mark5047]

Let me grab my whip and give the ole dead horse a whack or two......

My issue with these horns is NOT related to any prior history with SG or anyone involved in the process of getting these to the street - as a matter of fact, I still have my LA Sax alto and tenor horns and do not plan on making any changes in the near future... BUT I still want to know how a 'start up' company justifies the price point on these instruments... We don't know where they are made (true it may not matter, but if they were made somewhere reputable like Germany or France you bet they would use that in their marketing fluff) and we don't know how they will hold up under day-to-day use so start the horn at a price point comparable to other instruments and EARN the right to ask Mark VI money for them in a few years.... Thats all I am going to say.

[gary]

You guys all SUCK!!!!
Love, Dad.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/DrJazz_/outofthecloset.jpg


:D

[hakukani]

You guys all SUCK!!!!
Love, Dad.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/DrJazz_/outofthecloset.jpg


:D

Don't hold back, Gary, what do you REALLY think?

[Harri Rautiainen]

You guys cannot design a bike!!
Love, Dad.
http://www.joebluhm.com/ebay/orange_county_choppers.jpg :)

[ZenBen]

Ahhh, Amerikkalainen moottoripyörä. This show takes up way to much time in my life. :)

[zivley]

AHHH, completely off the topic! But anyway, I love when the dad goes mad on his sons and growls all over the place slammin' doors and stuff!!!

[Bill Mecca]

get to work! I'm goin for a massage.

:lol:

[Morry]

You guys all SUCK!!!!
Love, Dad.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b388/DrJazz_/outofthecloset.jpg


:D

Isn't that the crazy professor from that "Back To The Future" movie?

[Joe Jazz]

Gotta be the hair!

[Joe Jazz]

Well, I just tried out my new LA Sax Model 6 Steve Goodsen alto. Incredible! It practically plays itself! I got it for only $3,999 at WW&BW with free shipping! No way would I have imagined that I could have bought a top flight Taiwanese sax like this for the same price I can get a cheapo German piece of junk like a Keilwerth Shadow! How did they do it? Steve Goodsen is indeed a miracle worker. Gotta be the hair! :shock:

[Joe Jazz]

;) :d ;) :d ;) :d ;) :d ;) :d ;) :d ;) :d ;) :d

[Carl H.]

Joe: My name is Joe, and I am a gasaholic.

GA Group: Hello Joe!

[gary]

Back in your cage, Joe. Back in the cage! :twisted:

[Joe Jazz]

;)

[hakukani]

So, THIS is what happens when SOTW goes down for a few hours...:D

[Hotspur]

so do the tenors come with the 2 octave keys

[Joe Jazz]

Last time I counted, before I got dizzy, there were I believe 133.5643211 octave keys on the tenor model:shaking2: . That man is a geeenius! The ice cream scooper is a nice touch too!:shock:

[Joe Jazz]

So, THIS is what happens when SOTW goes down for a few hours...:D


We have to pass the time productively, don't we?;)

[Saxaholic]

Look, all you guys are terrible people. Absolutely terrible. Don't you realize Steve Goodson is preserving the saxophone's place in history? That he's ensuring generations of children to come will be playing the horn?

The ice cream scooper is BRILLIANT, ALL the kids will want to play saxophone. And there's a special limited edition disco ball model...the saxophone automatically plays "Saturday Night Fever" with a super secret altissimo fingering.

You guys just don't appreciate a master when you see him. :twisted:

Saxaholic

[Joe Jazz]

ok, ok, I'm a terrible person! Please pass the ice cream......:blackeye:
Yo, they laughed at the guy that inented post-it-notes in the beginning tooo!:shock:

[silver-sax]

Where is possibly to see normal photos of LA sax Steve Goodson model?

[Dr G]

I don't know whether these are the same horns. If you go to Goodson's website, Saxgourmet.com, and follow the links to "instruments for sale", you'll end up here: http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/index.php?cPath=1_17

I've no affiliation nor personal, first hand knowledge of these instruments.

[Canadiain]

Where is possibly to see normal photos of LA sax Steve Goodson model?
Scimonettis have some pictures on their website, and a horn on ebay at the moment. I dont think this is the LA Sax era one though.

http://www.scimonetti.com/
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-STEVE-GOODSON-MODEL-Alto-Sax-black-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ170061966653QQihZ007QQcategoryZ1 6234QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[silver-sax]

Thank you for links.
Now think that to buy from new interesting saxophones - example, P. Mauriat or such LA Sax tenor.

[silver-sax]

Who knows is there inscription "made in Taiwan" or "Taiwan" on this saxophone?

[JimD]

Don't take the bait Grumps. Don't take the bait.

[rim shot]

hello silversax,

No. There has been considerable speculation of the country of origin of the horns and Goodsen refuses to state where they are made- citing some kind of secrecy-agreement or whatever.

I don´t understand what the big deal is, myself.

[Swampcabbage]

Personally, I think we need to get over the "Made in Taiwan" issue. One, if you're going to produce a horn then you should be proud of it. And be proud of where it is made. If they're good horns then they're good horns and that's all that should matter. "Made in Japan" used to be a source of shame for horns. Now we look for it on those Vito's. The only way to get over it is to remove the secrecy. I had a Viril Soprano that was made in Brazil. It wasn't a bad horn and never fell apart on me. I own an EM Winston and it's not the greatest, but again, it works fine. Nothing wrong with it.

With holding the country of origin just adds more fuel to the fire. If all these people would just declare and let us get over it, maybe we might discover some nice honrs. But, as long as people are being evasive about it then I am going to be evasive about my interest.

My .03

[rim shot]

Exactly.

[ianhart]

What I don't understand about not stating where it comes from is that it has to be stated somewhere, at the very least on the box that the case ships in.

[Henry D]

.

[Joe Jazz]

I'm holding out for a Steve Badson model!;)

[Simon Weiner]

I keep wanting to post on this thread, but i am scared away. Hopefully this will ease my need. Nope still there.