YSS 4 / 6 / 8 (75): Marketing differences only?

[phatenomore]

I' d like to trigger discussion:

I carefully examined the three captioned Sops by Yamaha and concluded that, provided one uses the straight neck, the difference between the three is just Marketing (only engraving and buttons' material on the key pads really differ)

Phate

[Razzy]

Supposedly the ribbing is different. But yes, the body tube on all three instruments is very much identical. I examined a 675 and an 875 extensively and noticed no difference in playability that wasn't accountable by factors other than body tube and tone hole placement: varying pad thickness, action setup, etc. I kind of wish Yamaha would use a pearl for the front F rather than the tear drop, but I suppose that's all preference...

[Dave Dolson]

I recall years ago when Yamaha brought the Custom series to market as their new top-of-the-line model (over the 62, which I owned - a YSS62S), a dealer said one of the big differences was that the Custom (now the 875? maybe it was always a Custom 875 - don't know) had a solid, one-piece tube where the lower models had a soldered tube. Probably that difference would be hard to detect just by looking at the horns. DAVE

[Razzy]

The funny thing is, Yamaha no longer makes a one-piece soprano, arguably preferred by a lot of top players. One of my teachers plays a 62S... it's a great instrument but the lower end is extremely sharp. Comparing it to the modern 675's, you can see the difference in length from the Bb tone hole to the tip of the bell. Still, he said that for him to get a new Yamaha, he'd have to solder on the straight neck and use the old case... personally I prefer the straight-neck so I can see where he's coming from.

Not sure about "marketing differences only", but cosmetic differences and those that most good players wouldn't even notice? You betcha.

[Dave Dolson]

Razzy: The soldered tube vs. one-piece tube had to do with the way the body was formed, not the fixed neck vs. dual-neck thing. As it was explained to me, the older method was to wrap a sheet of brass around a mandril, then solder the edges so the tube was closed at the matching edges. The newer method was to draw a single tube with no edges and without soldering any edges together.

Of course, I may have gotten it all wrong (and I'm sure those with more technical knoweldge will weigh in). True, I don't believe Yamaha makes a fixed-neck model anymore (although maybe the 475 is fixed - I don't know, and don't really care), but possibly the way they make the tubes varies from the old method on the lower models and the newer method on the hi-end models. DAVE

[Razzy]

Dave, I knew what you were talking about but was adding further commentary about the changes in design over the years. And I meant to say that Yamaha no longer makes any (supposedly) "pro" line saxes with a one-piece design. Wish they did...

[Dave Dolson]

Razzy: Okay, I wasn't sure. I guess I'd prefer a fixed neck on a modern soprano, too, but in all honesty, the dual-neck thing is not a big deal. Yes, it is one more thing to go wrong (tight tenon causing someone to carelessly twist the neck and bend it . . . broken neck-tightening screw, etc.; I actually broke a neck screw once on a dual-neck Yanagisawa).

But as far as tone, scale, and response, I find little differences between dual necks and fixed necks. Not the same when comparing the two necks on a dual-neck, horn though. I much prefer the straight neck. DAVE

[Joe Jazz]

I have owned all three and would certainly say that my impression was not that they were all the same. I am kicking myself for getting rid of the 875, as I could not imagine a better straight soprano. Comfortable to play and beautiful warm sound. I believe the metal makeup is different, at least between the 675 and 875. The 875 is definitely heavier. All fine sopranos....

[Razzy]

Dave, same here as far as preference. The straight neck feels a little better, takes the air better, easier intonation it seems. A good thing going for the removable necks is that it's a lot easier to swab out the horn. A lot of swabs simply won't fit through a one-piece soprano and also act effectively.... last year at a camp I was working at a student got a swab stuck in a college-owned Mark VI soprano, and it took me and my teacher playing all out tug of war with the thing till it came out... not good!

[Flower Power]

I only played the 475 and the 875, which I own. To my ears, the 875 sounds fuller and warmer. (And the 875 feels very heavy, I like that.) So it's more than marketing hype, for me.

[singlereed]

In my play test, the 875 had a bit more class to the tone, but the 675 is a very good horn and we picked one up at a snip of a price for my daughter. I always enjoy playing it, pieces I found hard suddenly seem easier.

[phatenomore]

First let me tank U all 4 Yr kind and effective remarks. Next. let me add:

1) YSSs 4/6/8 bell and body are made out of one single sheet of brass: doesn' t, then, the hand hammered bell feature, claimed by Yamaha as an important plus of the Custom models, sound as a pure marketing thing when referred to sops?

2) several scientific tests proved that the materials used (as well as the finish) have questionable influence on the quality of the sound, while geometry of the instrument accounts for 99% of it. If that's true 6s and 8s, more weighty and made of "different brass" shouldn' t sound different from the 4s. Isn' it?

Thanks for Your patience and your will to "play" with me on the subject!

Phate

[M Exner]

Are the differences between a Corrola, Camry, and an Avalon a marketing ploy? Yes, in the sense that Toyota wants to make cars available to the masses and yet also to those with discerning taste. Are the differences between these cars real. Yes , the grades of creature comforts are there. They all get you to the same place but some make you pay harder with the ride and some get there with a little more ease. I'm sure the performances between these cars is measurable also.

Going back to the saxes I feel you will see similarities in this analagy. Yamaha wants to make sopranos affordable to students and yet also saxes with different manufacturing concepts and quality. Are these marketing ploys? Yes. Are these differences real and measurable? I think so. I tried them all and in my evaluation. Action and tone were the two big differences I noticed.

Mike

[saxboy]

From my understanding, instrument manufacturers start with the best sax they can make and then try and create versions of these saxes for certain markets or price breaks to be competitive with other Saxes available in the marketplace.
Since a one piece design would require 2 versions of each price range, marketing effects that issue since it would cost more to produce.
I had it explained to me that they make a really good one and then look for ways to make it for less for the other, cheaper models. They will save on materials, manufacturing location and keywork design.

SAXBOY
www.saxreviews.com

[phatenomore]

M Exner and gvsaxboy,

we' re musicians and what I' m questioning here is if we can HEAR differences during performance (given a high standard and flexibility in the action, which all the yss have) not the look of the instruments.

The keys of the 4s are not polished on their sides, plastic is used on the key buttons... and so what? In addition to having a great tone, the 4s look gorgeous anyway (IMO Much more than most of the straight ones in the Market) and their extremely high construction standards grant all the robustness needed for heavy duties.

Going back to M' s analogy: I' m from Italy and Alfa Romeo's driving compfort is for sure not extremely good, yet many people around the world do prefer Alfa Romeo because of their performance AS A CAR not as a living room.... ;-)

With simpathy

[singlereed]

Well yes, as a player and listener I can hear clear differences moving up the range. However, the differences are subtle and Yamaha have set the bar high for themselves with the 475 which is quite adequate for the pro doubler or occasional sop player. The 875 is a real class act and the only horn that tempted me to swap from a Selmer, it has a really solid and even scale and is a very well-mannered instrument, especially for classical playing. The 675 and 475 are a bit less focussed and freer-blowing, which may well suit the jazzer or occasional soprano player better than the 875.

[M Exner]

Phate- You keep asking the same question but your not listening or getting the answers you seem to want to hear.

Joe Jazz- (comparing the 875 to the other sopranos) "comfortable to play and beautiful warm sound."

Flower Power- "to my ears the 875 sounds fuller and warmer"

Singlereed- "a bit more class to the tone" then later "I can hear clear differences moving up the range"

M Exner- "action and tone were the two big differences"

I also mentioned the "performance" analogy with the cars which you seem to have dismissed. Take off the blinders! If you think of or compare the 875 to a "living room" and sign off your post "with sympathy" then wake up and smell the coffee.

Mike

[phatenomore]

M,

the (declared) intenton of my threat was to trigger discussion and I' ve been simply provocating reactions by going a bit far in my statements, while U seem to take it too seriously.

Therefore, thanks to all who understood the intention and palyed with my less than serious subject of discussion which I' m quitting hereby.

Peace, Love and Simpathy (specially to M)

[Gandalfe]

Um, you meant thread, not 'threat' correct? :shock:

Phatenomore, you seem to revel in both poor spelling and angering some pretty savvy fellows. If I want to talk soprano's most of the heavy hitters I would want to talk with are represented in this thread.

I've seen some other posters go out of their way to alienate people and typically people just stop responding to their posts. I am sure that is not what you are striving for.