New Sound Please

[RaZaDAM]

Hello,

My name is Adam Jackson, and i'm in my second last year of high school.

I stay in the UK, i'm 16 years old, and i've been playing sax for near enough 4 years on and off now.

On the 14th of June i'll be playing in my first 100% independent gig, in that i'll be organising it, calling the tunes, introducing the band, and so on, without the help of any band lead leaders or adults.

I'll be playing with a Quartet, and we're just gonna be playing a few standards, with some compositions of my own.

I'm currently playing on a YAS-62 (Old Model), Selmer S-80 C* MPC, and the standard Yamaha Ligature, varying between rico jazz select 2M reeds and La Voz Soft/Med.

I find this sound ok, but it's a bit muffled, and can be quite dark.

I'm in search of something brighter, i have been recomended the Metal Yanagisawa 7, but i was thinking this would be too much of a leap? Getting tired is no problem and i can adjust to a new setup quite well, but i'm stuck on where to go, i've tried a Link 5* and barely noticed a difference from the Selmer C*, baring in mind Otto link ain't what they used to be.

Is there any recomendations, im seeking that classic, bright razzin lead alto sound, but not soo bright that it's too hard to play quiet or some balads like niama and misty.

I've also tried a Meyer Ebonite 7M and found this sound to be a little too thin.

I really like Marc Russo's sound, (who doesn't), and also Cannonball Adderleys.

Any suggestions would be grateful,

Adam Jackson.

[markieg]

So you have 1 month........ I would use this time to work on support for tone. When I was in 8th grade I would always practice on LaVoz hard reeds and also play them in orchestra concerts, but for jazz band I would go down to a m hard for just a little more kick. If you want to try that method, since you play soft/med reeds, I would suggest buying a m hard and play only that for practices. Then kick out a soft reed during the concert and you will think there is no resistance at all. Maybe go ahead with that Yag metal piece. Play the C*/m hard setup for 2 weeks, and then the Yag/m hard setup for 2 weeks, and then the day before the concert switch back to that soft reed to break it in. You're going to have to blow your brains out for a while, but it's kinda like working out; you have 1 month to work your mouth into shape before this concert. Also make sure you play every day to condition yourself. Your lips will get tired, and you should take breaks, but it can be done.

[Razzy]

I think that 2M or la voz med/soft reeds on a C* is WAY too soft, personally. After playing for four years you should definitely be in a bit better shape than that. I play a meyer 5M (about equivalent of a C*) with RJS 3S or 3M, or La voz medium hard, and have been playing for about 6 years, but only playing SERIOUSLY for 10 months (e.g. caring about my equipment and playing/practicing correctly). I took sort of an "alto leave" to work on my tenor sound for a while so now I'm back to the 3S, and will probably be back up to 3M in a few weeks. You may want to just keep the reeds you're using and go more open mouthpiece. The Meyer 7M should do fine; not every meyer is as good as another. I always order pieces like that from WWBW, 3 of the same exact model, pick the best one, and send the other two back. Then getting it refaced might be ideal, but with the time you have, reface waiting list time is probably implausible.

A more open mouthpiece with the same reeds, or harder reeds. The benefit to the second is that you can do it gradually, moving up strength or half-strength every week or so. The first, however, you will have to do in just one big leap and take a lot of practice to adjust to. Your choice but I think that is really the road to the bigger, brighter sound you're looking for.

[Dave Dolson]

I agree that your C* piece may work better with a harder reed. I prefer more open pieces and softer reeds for power, projection, and tone, but everyone is different.

I have C* pieces and can hardly get them to play with the reeds I use on other more open pieces. When I put a harder reed on them, they begin to speak but as the reed hardens, my tone suffers. First, try a harder reed, then you may want to explore better mouthpieces.

I use the new Soloists and a Super Session (all F-facings) on my altos with Vandoren Java #2 which I shave down. I have no problem being heard and rarely, if ever, play even near a microphone. DAVE

[super20dan]

if you deside on a metal yani go with the 5 not the 7 .the 7 is very open .the 5 is just right. yani metal sizes run signifintly bigger than normal

[RaZaDAM]

Thanks for the replies,

Where is this WWBW? What's their site link? Would they ship to the UK?

With regard to higher strength of reeds, i've been playing for 4 years say. And in those 4 years i've been from 1 1/2's up to 5's. And finally realised about a year ago, it's time to swallow your ego, and play with what sounds best instead what will impress teachers more, and for me that happened to be the Med/Soft.

Adam Jackson.

[singlereed]

As you are in the UK, go to one of the dealers we have rather than do an import - especially for something like a mouthpiece. I agree with the other posts, the reed is a bit soft for a C* mouthpiece and will limit your dynamics, many pro classical players use that with a 3.5 or 4 Vandoren, and get amazing sounds.

One thing to think about with the mouthpieces is that it is not just the tip opening that affects how they play and feel, but also the length and shape of the facing - so with a more open tip but a proportionately longer facing, you will find you can use the same reed. Think of the reed as a lever. Of course, the chamber and baffle designs also come into play, but my point is, don't be afraid of trying a more open mouthpiece. A while ago, I did what you were considering and moved from a C* to a Yani 7 metal, which I found worked very well and was surpisingly comfortable.

I am surpised you did not like the Meyer, anyhow, one to try is definitely a Vandoren V16 - they come in A5, 6, 7, 8 and S (small) or M (medium) chambers - I think you would find it feels comfortable in transition from what you have been using, and the different models give you a selection of sounds and 'feel'. Many places stock these and the prices are reasonable. A few places in the UK are now stocking Runyon mouthpieces, and a Custom in say 5 or 6 is worth a try, they can include a 'spoiler' which is a little wedge to place in the mouthpiece to give an alternative sound.

Your post doesn't indicate where you live in the UK. I suggest the following: www.howarth.uk.com (central london) www.dawkes.co.uk (Maidenhead) www.myatt.co.uk (Hitchin) or www.saxophones.co.uk (on-line or between Uckfield and Lewes in Sussex). If you live elsewhere in the UK, let us know and we'll see if we can suggest somewhere else.

When you try mouthpieces, take (or buy) some fresh reeds, and ideally more than one strength and type. All the shops I suggested will have loads to try out and will be able to advise you.

[RaZaDAM]

I stay in glasgow, scotland.

The only way someone will order mouthpieces up here so far i have found is that if you are definetley going to buy one.:(

Thanx for the links anyway, i'll check them out.

Adam Jackson.

[RaZaDAM]

OK, i have uploaded a clip of my current sound, remember i'm only 16, so go easy lol.

http://www.razzin.com/LaVozCStarYAS62AdamJackson.wav

[Edited to Wav file]:[13.58]

This was with the following Setup:

Reeds: LaVoz Med/Soft
MPC: Selmer S80 C*
Sax: Yamaha YAS-62
Lig: Standard Yamaha

Adam Jackson.

PS: You need to unzip it, then its in wav format.

[singlereed]

Try Mev Taylor's in Edinburgh

[Mike Ruhl]

Adam, WinZip had a problem with your zip file when I attempted to extract it. Please try zipping the wav file again, and uploading a new version. Thanks.

[Mike Ruhl]

<<edited - see post below>>

[RaZaDAM]

Sorry about that mate, i think my FTP must of timed out as it was just uploading the last of the file, as it says bites are missing.

I can't seem to zip it now, so i just uploaded the wav file staight.

http://www.razzin.com/LaVozCStarYAS62AdamJackson.wav

Right click, and choose save target as to avoid streaming.

PS, have you got mev taylors site address?

Adam Jackson.

[Mike Ruhl]

www.mevtaylors.co.uk/

[Mike Ruhl]

Adam, great sound, especially with a C* and soft reed. Frankly, I think you ought to simply consider moving to a half-strength harder reed, for now. It's very easy to fall into the trap of trying every blasted mouthpiece on the planet, when what you should be doing is practicing! If you decide you really want to try another mouthpiece, consider trying a more open facing of your current Selmer mouthpiece - maybe a D or E facing. At this point in your development, I think it's best to avoid drastic changes in setups - just tweak your current setup.

Great work! Good luck with the gig.

[RaZaDAM]

Thnx for the praise, but i just went and bought a pack of la voz today, dammit!!!

I think the worst i can do is go in to MevTaylors hopefully soon when i find out where it is, and try out a few mouthpieces, although i was particulary interested in Yanagisawa's and they don't seem to stock any.:(

Maybe i should look into a new ligature for now.

Thanks for your help meruhl, it's greatly appreciated!:)

Adam Jackson.

PS, i've got a list of songs we're gonna play, any suggestions for the opener, and the finisher?

Chameleon
Doxy
Blue 7
Groove On
The Chicken
Work song
All Blues
So What
Blue In Green
Misty
Take The A Train
Tenor Madness
Blue Train
Summertime
Song For My Father
Footprints
Autumn Leaves
Lady Bird
One For Daddy-O
Moanin’ [Bobby Timmons Version]
Pick Up The Pieces
aDAM’s Blues
Valentine That Ain’t Mine
Fly Me To The Moon
Sack Of Woe
Bb Blues

[sjabariiii]

metal is a bigger commitment because the thin profile requires a slightly different musculature and because it's expensive. I second the idea of a soloist E. or a morgan 6m. That said, I have a yani 7 for sale if you're interested.

-ANDYJ

[RaZaDAM]

If you PM me with you're price and some pics, and where you stay i might be interested, would you allow a trial peroid?

[Dave Dolson]

Adam: I listened to your clip. Sounds like you are on your way. Stick with a reed upgrade for now. Remember, what the audience hears out front will not differ much even if you changed hundreds of mouthpoieces over the course of your performance. All a better set-up will do is increase your confidence and THAT's what the audience will see/hear/feel.

Also, I liked your comment about finally realizing that you must please yourself and go for what works, NOT what you think others expect of you. DAVE

[RaZaDAM]

Thanx for the feedback Dave, i guess i'll try and squeeze a la voz medium out of one of my friends if they have any and see what happens.

Thanx again.

Any suggestions for the opener and finisher though? :lol:

Adam.

[BobD]

Nice sound.

[Dave Dolson]

Adam: My stuff is 1920's jazz, so everything you listed (except maybe SUMMERTIME) is unknown to me.

I cringe whenever someone calls a Bb blues, as if THAT was a song. There is SO much material from the beginning to the current jazz age, blues with a melody (and in other keys than merely Bb) that to "jam" on blues chords is inexcusable, in my view. I know, I know, many do it - and even some with success, but play a melody!!

Your opener should be one of your best tunes - catch the audience's interest. Your closer must leave 'em satisfied, so it too must be a good one, and probably up-tempo so they walk out happy.

From listening to your clip, we live in different musical worlds, but one thing I know is that youngsters know little about the original jazz - where it all came from (and it wasn't Charlie Parker either). You would do well to research the original styles (Sidney Bechet, Frankie Trumbuaer, Stomp Evans, early Coleman Hawkins, Johnny Hodges, etc.). Try to find Bechet's SUMMERTIME - then you'll know of what I write. Good luck. DAVE

[RaZaDAM]

DAVE! You gotta know Take The A Train?? Strayhorn classic!

Anyway, thanks for your help, i'll probably open with A-Train then, seeing as it's the tune we play best.

Bb Blues is a song though, it's out of an abersold book, he just called it that.


Thanks to all the guys that helped me, i appreciate it very much, i'll try to post a recording of a few songs if i can find somewhere to host them, would use my own server but it'll likely not handle the transfers as the files will be 4MB+

Adam.

[Ritchie]

You could compress your wav files to mp3 to save heavily on file transfer rates and server space. This would make downloading quicker, too. You can download an mp3 converter, e.g. razor lame. Search via google or go here: http://www.dors.de/razorlame/download.php. 128 kbps usually give a quite acceptable sound quality.

But don't forget you might run into copyright problems, since you are publishing copyrighted songs via the internet.

If you want to try how a harder reed feels and just have bought a new pack of softer reeds, clip the tip of the reed, or easier and better, burn it. Find a coin or any other piece of metal which has the same curve as your mouthpiece tip, place your reed on it and burn the very tip off with a lighter. Only burn 1/2 to 1 mm at a time!

Nice sound, btw, keep going!

[smitch]

Excellent choice of songs.

I personally think Work Song would be good to open with. It moves and grooves and gets things going. Then end with your best - if you say A train is your best, maybe that.

Your sound is good. I would stick to a rubber mpc for now because of the adjustment and cost. I think over the next ten years, you may change your feelings about your sound or direction and will try many mpcs. Don't spend a lot now, just practice. Go to a local store to buy because you will want to try the mpc. Buying based solely on someones recommendation rarely works.

Good luck on the gig!

[Dave Dolson]

Adam: Yes, I know TAKE A TRAIN (as Lawrence Welk used to say), but it came to us during the swing era - leading edge of bop as I recall - and that takes me out of the loop.

You could be correct about Bb BLUES too, but in all my years, whenever someone announced a Bb BLUES or BLUES IN F (or whatever) everyone else just played riffs on the chord structure without anyone stating a definite melody. THAT's what bugs me. It could also be that Abersold just cobbed up a tune and called it that. Maybe others will enlighten us.

There is SO much material with definite melodies, both real blues (e.g., KANSAS CITY MAN BLUES, 2:19 BLUES, JAZZIN' BABIES, TERRIBLE BLUES, IRRESISTIBLE BLUES, etc.) and tunes called blues that really weren't (e.g., Armstrong and Morton's WILD MAN BLUES and Spencer Williams' TISHOMINGO BLUES), that one should never call an indefinite blues. Just MY opinion . . . DAVE