Conn C-mel bis fingering

[Alan K]

I just got a Conn c-mel from a member on this forum, it plays perfectly in tune with a French made c-mel mouthpiece. After checking every note with my Korg AT120 tuner, I have to say, this Conn c-mel is more in tune than my Yamaha YTS-62 and YAS-21.
But, I can not use the bis fingering, the bis key is tiny and far away from the B key. Also, the c-mel has a kind of nasal and diffuse funny tone to it, no matter what kind of mouthpiece I put on it. How to fix these problems?
Thanks

[Roger Aldridge]

Alan,

Could you give us the horn's serial number (ie, 123,xxx)? Also, please see if this serial number is also on the neck of the horn.

The nasal tone that you described is most curious! What mouthpieces have you tried besides the French c-mel piece? In addition, what kind of reeds are you using (ie, tenor, alto...)?

I'll check the bis key on my Conn to see if there is anything unusual about it. It hasn't come up on my radar scope when I'm playing the horn.

It's great to hear that the intonation is good!!!

[paulwl]

I've had the Bis problem myself - in fact, it was a few years before I bothered to "learn" that key. A tech with some junk sax parts could replace the Bis pearl and cup with a bigger one. Or experiment - make a riser out of cork or putty. Meantime, you could try not hitting the B pearl quite so dead center - ie: lowering your finger a bit on the key. This will make Bis less of a reach.

The tone...well, there you might be best off to look at it as an opportunity rather than a liability. No, it's not meant to sound nasal, diffuse and funny...more round, focused and gentle. A classical setup (big chamber mouthpiece/stiff reed) can help achieve that. Or there are mpcs that give more volume and cut while keeping the round tone.

[Alan K]

Roger, The neck and the horn have the same number 236-XXX.
I use LaVoz tenor medium on a no name French HR C-mel mouthpiece modified by MojoBari. He put a very fine vintage Link kind of baffle in it and open it to .092. The piece sounds very much like a smaller vintage tenor Link. I did try Morgan alto 2C and Morgan tenor 7L, but intonation was not manageable.
Thanks Paul, I will print out your message give it to the tech, see if he can help me with the bis key.

[Alan K]

Could someone recommend a few must have C-mel classical and jazz recording? Thanks.

[paulwl]

Anything by Frank Trumbauer is essential. "Bix & Tram" on Columbia is a good collection, and for a little more esoteric listening, there is the 3 volume set "Tram" on the Tom (The Old Masters) label. Both of these turned up when I searched "trumbauer" at Amazon.com.

I say "classical" setup, but there is really no "serious" classical C melody music on record. It was really a pop instrument back in the day. Rudy Wiedoeft was the man who really made the horn famous with light classical favorites and rhythm novelties, and a wonderfully rich, legitimate dark tone, that Trumbauer obviously modeled after. He too is must listening. There are 2 great CDs of Rudy on the British "Clarinet Classics" label under the title "Kreisler of the saxophone."

Jack Pettis was a fine C player who led good jazz groups in the 1920s. I can't seem to find these on CD, but have 2 volumes on LP from a British label (Retrieval).

For latter day recordings, I enthusiastically recommend "Melody from the Sky" by Scott Robinson on the Arbors label. Scott is a modern jazz player in orientation, but has as beautifully pristine a tone as I've heard on the C horn. Joe Lovano and occasional free-form jazz people have used it, but I don't have details of recordings.

Alan, I notice you have a very late numbered Conn. Mine is about the latest I know of, a #274xxx Naked Lady engraved model from 1936. I swapped out the tuner neck for a curved one off an old stencil horn. I absolutely love it.

[Stacey]

Paul, you have a C-melody from 1936?!?!? I had no idea anyone made them that late! With my 55,5xx, I'm back towards the other end of the C-melody timeline (1919), but I'm sure I'm not NEARLY as close to the beginning as you are to the end!

Well, ya learn something new every day. I've learned at least 3 new things on this Wednesday, so I'm gonna put my brain into cruise control for the next couple of days...

[paulwl]

Paul, you have a C-melody from 1936?!?!? I had no idea anyone made them that late!
Neither did I until it turned up on charlesfail.com. I also own a 1930 Buescher in ungodly mint silver plate with all its original Snap-In pads and not a drop of glue on any of 'em.

With my 55,5xx, I'm back towards the other end of the C-melody timeline (1919), but I'm sure I'm not NEARLY as close to the beginning as you are to the end!
Would you believe Leblanc tooled up for (and even made a few) updated C melodies in the 1960s?

[Roger Aldridge]

Alan,

I checked out the bis key on my c-melody last night. Yes, it is rather small and is a distance from the B key. But, I've gotten used to it and it doesn't bother me. I believe that I tend to use the lower edge of my index finger to depress the key instead on the center of the finger. In other words, I use more of a rolling motion of the finger for the bis key. Anyway, this works fine for me.

Dave Pietro is another modern player who has recorded some great work on c-melody as well as Scott Robinson and Joe Lovano. Dave and Scott both have light sounding c-melody tones -- perhaps as a result from using alto sax mouthpieces. Dave uses a Beechler and Scott uses a modified Selmer metal alto mpc. Joe also uses an alto mouthpiece -- a metal Link according to Tim Price -- but his sound is a touch darker. Personally, I've found that certain tonal qualities of the c-melody are changed when one uses an alto or tenor mouthpiece. But, it all comes down to what you're looking for as a player.

I'm still scratching my head over the nasal sound you described. Let me ask this question.... Did Mojobari reface your c-melody mouthpiece for tenor sax reeds when he worked on it? If not, it's possible that you might be having a problem with the wider tenor reed not playing correctly on the tip and side rails of your mouthpiece. This may be a long shot. But, it's a thought that came to mind. Does the mouthpiece & reed set up also sound nasal if you try it on tenor?

It's perfectly understandable that your Morgan alto and tenor mouthpieces didn't work on your c-mel with respect to intonation. Their acoustical size (ie, length and chamber volume) are wrong for the c-melody. As I've mentioned in other messages, the c-melody mouthpiece Ralph Morgan makes has about the same length as an alto mouthpiece but it's chamber is larger than a comparable tenor piece. With this length & volume combination the intonation on my horn is good throughout it's range.

[Alan K]

The mouthpiece was setup for tenor reed.
I'll go get some CD and hear how a good c-mel should sound like. Maybe I should not thinking about tenor while playing c-mel. But, I had a lot of fun from playing church music last night. Thanks.

[cmelodysax]

Alan - you hit the nail on the head when you said - "I had a lot of fun from playing....". That's what it's all about !
Enjoy in the knowledge that you're reviving a great horn that is around eighty years old - and has probably laid unused for over half a century at some stage. Regards, Alan T.

[Stacey]

Alan - To be honest, I think the bis key on my 1919 Conn C-mel is in the perfect spot; I always felt my Mk7 alto had the bis key way too high and close to the B key. Then again, everyone's hands are different.

Paul L - I couldn't help noticing that you said "and then she wrote:"... I'm very sorry to admit this to anyone who may have hoped "Stacey" was a sexy bikinibabe inhabiting SOTW, but I'm a MAN! Even worse, a man who is 36 and is starting to lose far too much of his hair! :roll:

No, I had never heard anything about Leblanc tooling up in the 1960s to make C-melodies. This isn't like the time one of my employees said "Did you know the word 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary?", and I replied "REALLY?!?", is it? Did Leblanc really do this?