Who is the biggest alto sax MP critic on this forum?

[DaveKessler]

I would like to know who is the biggest Alto Sax MP critic on this forum.

Why? Because I want to give this person one of each of our new mouthpieces so that I can get the best critique possible.

I posted a "New Product Announcement" about them and would like for them to be reviewed by this board so I will send them one of each of the new mouthpieces (in plastic) for evaluation.

I would then like for that person to send them to other people to try from the board and so forth.

I figure that a lot of you also do private lessons and we are targeting these mouthpieces for students. This way you all can try them and the students can buy them at $29.

Anyone interested, please post on this thread but I would prefer to send it out to the biggest critic 1st.

[kennyj]

By the term "critic" I assume you would mean one who evaluates evenly and fairly, as opposed to someone who would demean the product.

I'm not looking for any type of gifting, but I have evaluated hundreds of mouthpieces, privately sold at least 75 mouthpieces to pro and student alike. I have never forced any mouthpiece on anyone, I just evaluate with them their needs and wants, and we come to a mutual conclusion of direction. Many times I refuse a sale, because it was wrong for them, and they later realize the wisdom in my counsel. I study mouthpiece design and function. Maybe I missed a calling somewhere, but I do indeed dig mouthpieces!

ii-V-I
kenny j

[DaveKessler]

By the term "critic" I assume you would mean one who evaluates evenly and fairly, as opposed to someone who would demean the product.


Yes thats exactly what I mean.

As I stated, I do not have some delusion that these are the best mouthpiece that has ever come (kind of like some Taiwanese makers swear that their horns are better then every MarkVI).

Rather, since my MAIN focus of mys business is the Junior High & High School student, I wanted to make a great playing mouthpiece but to keep it affordable. Thats what these are.

The ones that I am talking about sampling are mouthpieces that I will be selling for $29 to the general public. So far, the only 2 local pros that I had evaluate them LOVED them.

You sound very much like the candidate that I am lookking for.

What I would really like to do is make like a "Sample Set" that I can send to say for instance you. You try them and evaluate them. Then after a while, if someone else on this board wants to try them, you simply pop them in the mail to the next person. This way anyone can try them.

Granted, this is sort of on the honor system so anyone who wants to try them would have to post here and request it, this way we have a sort of un-official log book of who has them.

What do you think?

[Mike Ruhl]

I'm sure kennyj would be a fine "critic". There are several others here who have similar experience - foremost among them probably being Bootman.

[DaveKessler]

I'm sure kennyj would be a fine "critic". There are several others here who have similar experience - foremost among them probably being Bootman.

thanks for the tip, I might send him an e-mail.

Kenny, if you want to be the 1st to sample them, send me your info in an email to music@kesslermusic.com and I can get them out of here tomorrow.

Dave

[Mike Ruhl]

Dave, you might also consider contacting Mojobari and Paul Coats. They have vast experience and influence here and elsewhere.

[DaveKessler]

Dave, you might also consider contacting Mojobari and Paul Coats. They have vast experience and influence here and elsewhere.

Will do. I should have thought of Paul Coats. I loved (and completely agreed with) his review of the new Antigua Winds (Yanagisawa Copy) Soprano sax.

Are you interested in sampling these as well?

[super20dan]

i vote for paul c also -he is most objective(and any one who likes runyons cant be bad!)

[gary]

Jeez. I nominate Batman. I understand he's had such a big Jones for mouthpieces, he had to seek out a 12 Step Program. :dazed:

[MojoBari]

I would like to know who is the biggest Alto Sax MP critic on this forum.

Paul is bigger than I am. :lol:

He is more in-touch with outfitting student mouthpieces than I am. Alto used to be my least favorite sax. But I've been playing a lot of it lately.

[Mike Ruhl]

Dave, you might also consider contacting Mojobari and Paul Coats. They have vast experience and influence here and elsewhere.

Will do. I should have thought of Paul Coats. I loved (and completely agreed with) his review of the new Antigua Winds (Yanagisawa Copy) Soprano sax.

Are you interested in sampling these as well?
Thanks, Dave, but I don't own an alto. Soprano and tenor only.

[Dave Dolson]

Dave Kessler: Check your e-mail. DAVE

[DaveKessler]

Dave Kessler: Check your e-mail. DAVE

Dave Dolson: Check your e-mail. DaveK. :)

[DaveKessler]

Just spoke to Dave Dolson who was my first person on this forum to try my new mouthpieces and got a very good review from him. I am going to send him one of my NY models in the 50% hard rubber 50% plastic combo for him to compare since he liked the NY plastic so much.

He currently has both mouthpieces and will have them until someone else wants to try them.

So if you are interested, just e-mail me at music@kesslermusic.com

[Bootman]

Dave,
Let me know, I am happy to test drive these mpcs. I am in mpc remission at the moment but having played far too many mpcs to remember I can probably help.

[Morry]

I don't know if you should send them to Bootman or not. Isn't that sort of like being a facilitator to his GAS addiction? Tough love folks, tough love.

[Hurling Frootmig]

And there's always the chance that if the mouthpiece doesn't respond just the way that Bootman wants you are likely to get it back drilled. :D

[DaveKessler]

The trial set will be going next to kennyj.

Kenny, I will give your shipping information to Dave Dolson and he will send them to you. He is waiting to compare the Plastic NY up against my 50/50NY mouthpiece (which I am sending to him this afternoon).

[Troy]

I don't know if you should send them to Bootman or not. Isn't that sort of like being a facilitator to his GAS addiction? Tough love folks, tough love.

True, true. Also, it would really kill him if one of these $39 ones was close to the stuff he's tried. :) Sorry Boot, couldn't resist.

[DaveKessler]

I don't know if you should send them to Bootman or not. Isn't that sort of like being a facilitator to his GAS addiction? Tough love folks, tough love.

True, true. Also, it would really kill him if one of these $39 ones was close to the stuff he's tried. :) Sorry Boot, couldn't resist.

I wouldnt mind that though! :)

[Hurling Frootmig]

You would when it came back drilled! :lol:

[Balladeer]

Dave:

The text, below, is copied directly from my earlier email to you.

I play soprano, alto, and tenor. Alto was always my main sax, and I earned an applied music degree in saxophone from Florida State in 1971. I play all types of music. My first alto mouthpiece was a Brilhart (off-white with black insert). In college I played a HR Berg. I played the HR Berg for the next 30+ years until December 2001 when I purchased a more open HR Berg. Then last summer I tried several Dukoffs, and temporarily settled on a VanDoren Jumbo Java A55. Last Fall I purchased a HR Jody Jazz #9. A couple months ago I picked up a Beechler Bellite off eBay. I am currently looking for a new alto mouthpiece because I'm just not satisfied with the tone, versatility or control of the Jody Jazz and the Beechler. I would be honored to test your mouthpiece(s), and I would be very objective. My alto is a vintage Mark VI (#61xxx) in perfect playing condition.

Thanks,
Brian (Balladeer)
sax-balladeer@att.net

[DaveKessler]

Dave,
Let me know, I am happy to test drive these mpcs. I am in mpc remission at the moment but having played far too many mpcs to remember I can probably help.

Bootman...

as long as there is no "drilling" done to them, I have you down to try them after KennyJ.

I will e-mail you when he is ready to send them out to make sure you are still interested.

[Bootman]

No drilling, Promise 8)

I only drill reeds, not mpcs.

[DaveKessler]

With as impressed with the 50/50 versions of both facings, we decided to order a half dozen of each in a true hard rubber mouthpiece. This starts to get pricey of course but will still keep in the "affordable" range.

I will post when we get them. I ordered them today.

Pricing will be:

In-Store SOTW Price
Plastic $29 $29
50/50 $49 $39
Hard Rubber $69 $59

[DaveKessler]

By the term "critic" I assume you would mean one who evaluates evenly and fairly, as opposed to someone who would demean the product.

ii-V-I
kenny j

Kennyj,

Dave Dolson has your address and he will now be sending both plastic mouthpieces (1 NY, 1 C*) to you shortly.

He is going to buy the 50/50 NY that I sent him. He posted a review of it on another thread here.

[Alan K]

How about send them to Son of Zorn and paulwl? They are the classical gurus on this forum.

[DaveKessler]

How about send them to Son of Zorn and paulwl? They are the classical gurus on this forum.

I will contact them after everyone else who has requested them has had a chance to try them.

[DaveKessler]

kennyj,

Please let me know when you receive the mouthpieces. Dave Dolson has shipped them to you.

They were sent UPS Ground on 5/22. Here is the UPS Tracking Number: 1ZV6364F0343694839

Thanks!

[Tim Wolfe]

Dave,
I play mostly alto these days, and I also teach several middle school and high school students (all alto players).

I am happy to evaluate your mpcs. I am always being asked by my students about this or that mpc. Their parents would love to know that they are quality mpcs at affordable prices.

If I can be of help, please don't hesitate to ask.

Warm regards,
Sax is my axe (Tim Wolfe)

[Morry]

Some may simply call it great marketing, but I want to offer my kudos to Dave K. for going the extra mile in getting some "real world" impressions of his line of mouthpieces.

[DaveKessler]

Tim,

I will definately put you on the list to try them. There are a couple people in front of you but I will keep you on the list. Thanks for the interest.

Morry,

Thanks! I could toot my own horn here (pardon the pun) but it doesnt matter what the person selling a product says... all that maters is what possible customers think.

[DaveKessler]

Just in case you dont see it, we are now in the works on Tenor equivalent mouthpieces. For sake of keeping things clear, I posted a new thread in the General Mouthpiece Discussion for this.

[srcsax]

Hmmm.....sounds interesting........

[DaveKessler]

Hmmm.....sounds interesting........

What sounds interesting? The alto or the tenor pieces...

Just curious.

[srcsax]

Well, both. And i thenk the concept of affordable mouthpieces for the student is a noble gesture that has only been done by a very few mouthpiece makers.

I personally welcome anyone who make a good tenor mouthpiee that will work for tenor. I prefer a .095 tip with a medium large to large chamber for classical tenor.

I wish you the best in this market!

[srcsax]

Wasn't that an impressive typing and spelling skill?

[srcsax]

Oh my GOD! Grammer as well!

[DaveKessler]

Oh my GOD! Grammer as well!

Having a rough day as well I can see!

[srcsax]

It's not easy being me :oops:

[kennyj]

Well, the sample mouthpieces arrived 5-29. I had a couple of hours to do a test-drive, and a big-band jazz gig to try them on. Also shared them with a fellow altoist.

First off, the facing curves seem to be very good. Very reed friendly, very comfortable feeling on the lay. Outside, they look great. Problems do exist inside, however. The C* has a problem in the baffle area, a common C* bump in the front, that most refacers remove, to improve flow. The NY baffle is rather flat, but acceptable, with a very wide tip rail. Both pieces share a common flaw which renders them unacceptable, acoustically. The inner side rails are totally flat and very thick, leading into the chamber, and then they end, with a huge wall behind what should be the throat. There is no real throat, either. Most NY inspired pieces will have curved inner side rails, smoothly leading into a "squeeze" in the throat of the chamber, then smoothly leading into the neckpipe. It is this squeeze that creates a vortex, that accelerates the flow, that gets us the "pop" that we talk about. Your pieces, unfortunately have no "pop" so-to-speak. The thick side rails, and the turbulence caused by the way the chamber just stops flat leads to a hollow sound, rather than a full sound. This also leads to a varience in tuning octaves.

I realize that these pieces are probably designed for beginner/student/semi-pro players, and are priced quite nicely. However, I would suggest that you do not pay the price to reproduce these designs in hard rubber. If faced with a decision to choose this design in hard rubber, and a standard Meyer, the Meyer would win. The Meyer Richie Cole would win even more, and the new "G" would be better, still, all in the same relative price range. At least you do not have a wedge baffle or other artificial means to gain an incorrect perception of "edge".

These are a good start, but they need work, in my opinion. I would seriously look at the Morgan Pro-tone (very inexpensive, but made right), the new Vintage (a more economical poly/rubber blend), or belly up to the bar and get my favorite, the standard full hard rubber Morgan (6M in my case).

Thank you very much for allowing me to test drive these. I was somewhat alarmed that they were shipped in a box full of padding, but the tubes they were in were not padded, the pieces just flopping around inside the very well protected outer tube! Plus one red cap cover appears to be missing.

Let me know where to ship them next.

ii-V-I
kenny j

[DaveKessler]

kennyj,

let me first start off with, my mouthpiece guy agrees with you for the most part.

Yes the C* has the typicaly "C* bump" as you call it. We left that intentionally because we have found that first year players (adult or student) usually find the C* the easiest to play on... likewise, between the NY & C* models of ours, they also play easier on the C*.

As to the straightwall feature of the mouthpiece, yes, most people will prefer a round or curved wall. This we know. But this would also be a LOT more expensive to produce. As to the round or curved wall being better just depends on the player. I have 3 local pros (not hacks but actually good sax players) play our NY model in the 50/50 composition up against the Morgan 8E. All 3 of them bought the 50NY over it saying it was a better mouthpiece for them. So personal preferrence.

The Hard Rubber ones are primarily being sent in for my mouthpiece guy to then modify more for the local guys to whatever way they want it done.

The Morgan Pro-Tone is a good mouthpiece as well. I carry plenty of them. All of our teachers like our NY model better. Again, personal preferrence.

Again, I am not disagreeing because for the most part, we completely agree... but keep in mind that we are doing these as a student mouthpiece.

I had my mouthpiece guy read all this prior to posting. He wanted me to let you know that in his alto case, he carrys a Morgan 5M & the actual New York Meyer 5 mouthpiece that we got the measurements from.

I will e-mail you with the next person to send them to.

[MojoBari]

Some of those "problems" and "flaws" kennyj commented on would be considered characteristics or features by many or most players. Its nice we have choices. I think it would be a sad world if all mouthpieces were limited to curved sidewalls, squeeze chambers, and baffles without wedges.

Also, I doubt that there is turbulance downstream of the reed. The air flows are too slow. There may be some laminar recirculation. But flow dynamics have nothing to do with sound accoustics beyond the reed.

[Mike Ruhl]

Attaboy Mojo! :wink:

[Dave Dolson]

The pieces were shipped away as they were shipped to me . . . and the red caps were affixed to both tubes when I put them back into the shipping carton. DAVE

[DaveKessler]

FYI,

Just got off of the phone with JJ Babbitt concerning the True hard rubber vesions.

Babbitt only makes hard rubber blanks in the round chamber. So our true hard rubber kessler mouthpieces will be a round chamber and not the straight wall.

They are making us a few production prototypes using our CAMs so we should see these pieces in about 1-2 weeks for our evaluation.

[DaveKessler]

Dave,
Let me know, I am happy to test drive these mpcs. I am in mpc remission at the moment but having played far too many mpcs to remember I can probably help.

Bootman,

E-mail me your address info so that the set can come next to you.

Dave

[Bnatural]

I'm kind of curious... after reading this i hear mentioned again and again that these are student pieces but... i didn't see any student reviews just reviews from pros adn a few saying what they thought students would say... Just an observation i think it's great what u r doing but if ur selling to students u should hear more from them ... I know i wouldn't want to buy a piece for my alto just on the words of my teachers...but seriously let me know if u want someone less experienced to try them
Bnatural

[DaveKessler]

I'm kind of curious... after reading this i hear mentioned again and again that these are student pieces but... i didn't see any student reviews just reviews from pros adn a few saying what they thought students would say... Just an observation i think it's great what u r doing but if ur selling to students u should hear more from them ... I know i wouldn't want to buy a piece for my alto just on the words of my teachers...but seriously let me know if u want someone less experienced to try them
Bnatural

Bnatural,

If you want to try them, just ask. :)

I wanted pros to try them because as a general rule, they are going to more well equipped to give complete a full detailed reviews then students would be. That and since a lot of good adult players teach, they then have a mouthpiece they can recommend for their students to try.