Biting Problem

[saxguy9345]

I've been playing for 7+ years and am not a beginner by any means.
But-
I feel very undeveloped knowing that there isn't already a thread on SOTW about biting your lower lip.
I think what I do is bite my lower teeth against my lip (kinda resting the mouthpiece on my lip thats resting on my teeth), and I have quite a groove (more like an open wound) on my lower lip to show for it. I can't play for too long or else the pain gets really bad. I really don't know what to do. Please help!

[Jazzed]

I used to have the same problem as you describe. You may need to check that your strap is adjusted correctly. The horn should hang so the mouthpiece goes into your mouth easily, not so that the mouthpiece is putting pressure your bottom lip.

Also some people just have naturally sharp teeth. There are various remedies for this: dental wax, bite guards, etc.

[saxguy9345]

I'll try the strap adjustment, but I think I just bite the mouthpiece through my lip. I guess I just must ween myself off from doing it. Thanks~

[Troy]

On the old site, there were several suggestions regarding this. Most were about padding the lower teeth somehow. Here is what I remember:

1. Several layers of cigarette papers over the bottom teeth.
2. Soft athletic mouthguard piece.
3. Have the dentist file down sharp bottom teeth.

[saxguy9345]

So my technique is correct? There is supposed to be a considerable amount of pressure on the lower lip from the lower teeth while playing? Just curious... file my teeth? Ack... mouthguard however would be weird (haha imagine the football jokes during MB). Thanks!

[Ritchie]

If you have pain and even an open wound in your mouth, your technique cannot be correct. You definitely use too much pressure from your jaw.
There are however different opinions on how much pressure from the lower lip is correct, but in every explaination i read or heard so far the pressure should come from your lips, not the jaw muscles.

I have quite sharp lower teeth myself, but I never liked any of the ideas Troy mentions. So I came to play with a much looser embouchure, and my sound benefitted from this. Think about it this way: if you play with too much pressure the reed cannot vibrate freely, hence you sacrifice sound. If you increase the pressure even more, you will push the reed to the mouthpiece and close some of the mouthpiece tip opening. With a looser embouchure you can play for hours without your lip getting numb or hurt.

Maybe your biting problem indicates that you should use a narrower mouthpiece. In his book "Developing a personal saxophone sound" Dave Liebman suggests to test this by inserting a small piece of folded paper on the far end of the mouthpiece table between table and reed. Larry Teal's "Art of saxophone playing" offers more on the embouchure topic, you should consider to buy this book which has a lot of valuable information in it.

[rtangle]

I've been playing for 7+ years and am not a beginner by any means.
But-
I feel very undeveloped knowing that there isn't already a thread on SOTW about biting your lower lip.
I think what I do is bite my lower teeth against my lip (kinda resting the mouthpiece on my lip thats resting on my teeth), and I have quite a groove (more like an open wound) on my lower lip to show for it. I can't play for too long or else the pain gets really bad. I really don't know what to do. Please help!


My lower lip starts bleeding if I play more than 2 hours. I played for more than a decade before I finally learned that other players don't bite. That blew my mind at first because I didn't know it was even possible to play without clamping into the mouthpiece. Unfortunately, I was born with a cleft lip & the muscle in my upper lip is almost useless. Biting is my only option. The biting does affect my sound. Using my teeth makes it easy for me to produce a very clean "fluty" sound for concert stuff, but when I need to blast I have to force a lot more air or growl more than most other players do.

I've tried cigarette paper, but it makes my gums recede BIG TIME! That's not good. I think using an athlete's bite guard would mess me up because it's just too thick. Have the dentist grind my teeth?? No way! What I have in mind, but haven't tried yet would be something like plastic electrical wire insulation. Just slice it lengthwise down one side & slip it over my bottom teeth. The trick would be to get it to stay there. I have an app't with the dentist in a couple weeks. I might ask if they can make something for me.

[JoeP]

saxguy,
i have been a "serial biter" over the last 3 years that i picked the horn back up after a 20 year layoff. my teacher is a 60+ year vetern of the saxophone and this is what he's taught me:

First and foremost: RELAX. The embouchure should be firm but not vise like. Next, are you sure your setup is right? Switching too soon to too hard a reed (harder reed=improvement, right? not necessarily) often has lead me to biting.

Think these things:

-"top down" (i.e., let the weight of your head rest on the mouthpiece via your top teeth vs the "bottom up" concept of clenching the lower jaw)

-"blow over the reed" (not under it)

-"pillow lip" (the lower lip should cover the teeth - as in pronouncing "f" and provide a cushion for the bottom of the mouthpiece

-"oooooo" (in forming the embouchure, emulate the "oo" sound)

-"hot air" (open the throat and blow "hot" instead of "cool"-try it into a cupped hand to get the idea)

WHEN I remember all these things, I avoid biting, my intonation is vastly improved and overall playing is better and more musical. It is a challenge every time I pick up the horn. In 60+ years, maybe I'll get it right :P

Hope it helps,
JoeP

[WindMusician81]

I'd think if your technique was dead on, you wouldn't have that problem.

I don't practice nearly as often as I should, but I haven't had that problem in years from regular playing. Last fall I did a long weekend where I played for about 12 hours the first day, 10 the second and third, then another 8 on the 4th day. By the end of the last concert, I had quite a grove dug into both my top and bottom lip (I play with a dbl emb) Gave my mouth a week to heal up only picking the sax up for a couple 15-20 minute practices then got back into the swing of think as happy as ever.

If you play properly, 1) you shouldn't be biting into your lip too much, and 2) your lip should toughen up so that you don't cut into it. Try adjusting your strap, and taking a bit of pressure off your lip.

If you practice a lot, then maybe try taking a few days off for your lip to heal up, then see if the problem re-develops.

[Riff]

Long ago I used to bite. Never to the point of bleeding but it did hurt to play for too long.

I cured the problem with advice from Joe Allard. He had me play without putting my upper teeth on the mouthpiece. Since it is your lower jaw that moves (your upper jaw is immobile), taking your upper teeth off the mouthpiece means you have nothing to bite against. This forces you to use your facial muscles to hold the mouthpiece steady. In short, you have to use the "Ooooh embouchure" which is what you should be doing anyway. It's hard to play like this in the beginning because it's so different from what you're doing now but give it time. It will work!

Without your upper teeth on the mouthpiece you will find that your intonation goes out the window. This is OK for now. Play like this for about two weeks and you will find that you have developed a new habit of not biting. Your new embouchure muscles will also begin to develop during this time. After two weeks you can begin to rest your upper teeth on the mouthpiece again and your intonation will return almost immediately. You'll find your tone will improve and that both your low and high register control will be better.

[Tenorsaxer]

rtangle: The dentist filing your teeth down a little bit wouldn't hurt ot take long at all.

[Eulipion2]

Two things you could do:
1.) loosen your embouchure;

or

2.) go to Wal*Mart (or wherever) and buy some Ezo strips in the denture aisle (for lower jaw), cut it into a piece long enough to cover your front teeth, let it warm up, mold it to your teeth, and blow away! It'll feel weird at first, but you'll get used to it. My sax professor cuts the whole box up and stores the strips in an empty Altoid container.

[src]

another problem is that your reed could be too hard. I don't know what your situation is on that, but usually on reeds that are too hard I find myself biting pretty hard.

I actually play on a vandoren 2.5 for my alto... I'm kind of ashamed of it, but I don't think my sound is suffering THAT much from having a softer reed; and anyway, being able to play easily beats out a little bit of a darker sound and some honor. :D

[LennyH]

That's what I did, src, to cure my biting problem. I'm using Rico Jazz med soft until I can go more than an hour without biting at all.

As I started progressing to harder reeds over the last year or so, I started biting more to compensate for the fact that my embouchure was not ready. I've busted myself back until my facial muscles are ready.

[hannibal]

Agree with the descriptions of 'pillow lips' and 'ooh embouchure'. Had biting problems with my lower lip for years- it even caused my teeth to move after a long practice session so that my bite would be different.

A local pro set me straight about having the mouthpiece rest on a puffed up bottom lip, as opoosed to folding the lip over the bottom front teeth. Took a few weeks to get my mouth muscles strengthened, but solved the problem permanently and improved my tone.

[saxplayer07]

I bite my lip a lot when I play so I buy denture cusions and cut them up then suck on them and place them on my bottom teeth

[alinkletter]

Until you can stop biting, this one is for the biters, water proof first-aid tape should stop you from biting through your lip, and should not cause your gums to recede.

Take a piece of tape and fold it over itself, so the sticky side is stuck to itself, and then put a crimp in the middle of what should now be a small patch, about 1cm x .5 cm, longways. Slip this over your bottom teeth.

It's good to be aware that, now, though you will not injur the cheek tissue, or lower lip tissue, you are still in danger of doing permanent and serious damage to your muscle and nerve tissue.

Even if you have no upper lip control, you can increase the amount of work the *sides* of your mouth are doing. Usually, the first step to stopping biting is to think of the embouchure as being tensioned from the sides, rather than like a drawstring, or even up and down.