Razzy
05-10-2003, 06:18 AM
I play longtones to a piano just about every day, at various dynamics and voicing of notes and such, just trying to get my pitch close to that of the piano (electronic keyboard on piano timbre). I also play in a wind ensemble in which tuning by your ear is absolutely necessary and a skill that was built over many rehearsals and practice sessions.
After reading posts on this forum by advanced and pro players regarding intonation and how it is more important to tune by ear than with a tuner, I decided to check my ear vs. tuner skills and played all my long tones with a tuner, tuned to A=440. I would close my eyes before starting the note, then after playing the note for about a second, look and see where it was. I have done this a few times over the past week but have not bothered to write down the results, I will do that this week. First, the situation under which I tuned:
-Vito student model alto sax circa 2000, Meyer 5M mouthpiece, Rico Jazz Select 3S reeds (all about a month old), Vandoren optimum ligature with the rippled plate
-Tuned G2, C#2, and F#1 to the closest relative tuning possible before beginning the long tones
-Room was moderate temperature, perhaps a bit on the cool side
-Tuner is a Korg
General trends and facts I noticed:
-Db1 and C1 were about 7 cents flat
-G1 was about 4 cents sharp, Ab1 about 7 cents sharp
-D2 was about 6 cents sharp, with either fingering (octave or D palm key)
-A2 was about 8 cents sharp
-E3 was about 4 cents sharp
-F#3 was about 3 cents flat, but after adding the righthand index finger, it was very close to 0
-70% of the other notes in the range were 0 or 1 cent in either direction
-The other 30% of the notes in the range were plus or minus about 3 cents
So how in tune is this? I don't really know. I did the same test with my tenor, mark VI, and got drastically different results (much less "in tune", the horn seemed out of tune with itself; however, it is the horn i use in the wind ensemble and the jazz band at my high school; the alto is what I practice on most of the time). This alto, though of low quality, seems fairly in tune with itself, and has the common problems of Ab1 and D2, of which I have not played a single sax lacking.
Also, I make minor adjustments in my embouchure and voicing while playing alto sax, by second nature, I think as a result of my longtone exercises. The upper range on alto tends to be sharp, and my lower range flat, without adjustment. So, by increasing corner and lip tension in the low range, which I seem to naturally do, the notes come closer to pitch but are still not spot on. Interesting that the low Bb is almost always right on 0, but just above that, the notes become flat. For the upper range, I open the throat more and voice the notes a bit differently.
By about next Thursday I will try to get more scientific results, and we shall see how much things have changed! (it has been getting a bit better every time I do this) I will also do this for both alto and tenor (I only have use of this tuner for 40 minutes during my school day). I hope that this little post about my own experiences with intonation will perhaps give others some ideas of their own. Feel free to share your own experiences and experiments.
After reading posts on this forum by advanced and pro players regarding intonation and how it is more important to tune by ear than with a tuner, I decided to check my ear vs. tuner skills and played all my long tones with a tuner, tuned to A=440. I would close my eyes before starting the note, then after playing the note for about a second, look and see where it was. I have done this a few times over the past week but have not bothered to write down the results, I will do that this week. First, the situation under which I tuned:
-Vito student model alto sax circa 2000, Meyer 5M mouthpiece, Rico Jazz Select 3S reeds (all about a month old), Vandoren optimum ligature with the rippled plate
-Tuned G2, C#2, and F#1 to the closest relative tuning possible before beginning the long tones
-Room was moderate temperature, perhaps a bit on the cool side
-Tuner is a Korg
General trends and facts I noticed:
-Db1 and C1 were about 7 cents flat
-G1 was about 4 cents sharp, Ab1 about 7 cents sharp
-D2 was about 6 cents sharp, with either fingering (octave or D palm key)
-A2 was about 8 cents sharp
-E3 was about 4 cents sharp
-F#3 was about 3 cents flat, but after adding the righthand index finger, it was very close to 0
-70% of the other notes in the range were 0 or 1 cent in either direction
-The other 30% of the notes in the range were plus or minus about 3 cents
So how in tune is this? I don't really know. I did the same test with my tenor, mark VI, and got drastically different results (much less "in tune", the horn seemed out of tune with itself; however, it is the horn i use in the wind ensemble and the jazz band at my high school; the alto is what I practice on most of the time). This alto, though of low quality, seems fairly in tune with itself, and has the common problems of Ab1 and D2, of which I have not played a single sax lacking.
Also, I make minor adjustments in my embouchure and voicing while playing alto sax, by second nature, I think as a result of my longtone exercises. The upper range on alto tends to be sharp, and my lower range flat, without adjustment. So, by increasing corner and lip tension in the low range, which I seem to naturally do, the notes come closer to pitch but are still not spot on. Interesting that the low Bb is almost always right on 0, but just above that, the notes become flat. For the upper range, I open the throat more and voice the notes a bit differently.
By about next Thursday I will try to get more scientific results, and we shall see how much things have changed! (it has been getting a bit better every time I do this) I will also do this for both alto and tenor (I only have use of this tuner for 40 minutes during my school day). I hope that this little post about my own experiences with intonation will perhaps give others some ideas of their own. Feel free to share your own experiences and experiments.