Tenor sax: AMATI ATS 61

[pkwinter]

What's the word on the AMATI ATS 61? What are the known limitations of this instrument?

[Cameron Wigmore]

I used to work at a music store where we sold those. One word: GARBAGE.

You can easily bend the bell with one hand. There's play in the mechanisms right from the factory. The sound is odd. Etc, Etc...

[pkwinter]

Hi CamTheCat!
Many thanks for your response re. the Amati ATS 61 tenor sax. Given your expertise, your specific observations could be valid … up to a point. Your summary of this instrument as "GARBAGE" and particularly its flimsy construction I could not substantiate. From my experience the Amati is a very solid brass instrument. It appears to be much heavier than any other tenor I've held. Your claim that the bell of the Amati can be easily bent does stretch credibility. Unless you have a dominant male gorilla in mind though even he would have trouble bending the Amati. I asked one of the most experienced brass instrument repair guys of Long & McQuade in Toronto and he told me that the Czech brass instrument makers have a long and respected tradition recognized internationally. OK, you think they produce garbage. The Long&McQuade guy emphasized the quality of metal and fabrication. Those comments neither backup nor contradict your observation on the musical qualities of the instrument. Were your comments based on student models? I have seen Yamaha student instruments and they appear to fit your description more closely. Yet Yamaha has intermediate and professional models that receive praise from musicians. Thanks again for your response.
Cheers,
Paul

[Gandalfe]

Like many posters, Paul, you seem to have an answer to your 'question' before you ask it. Anyone that presents a different opinion gets lambasted. I have never heard anything good about Amati saxes. You don't hear the professional musicians on this board touting that axe either. Draw your own conclusions. Oh, that's right--you already have.

[Hurling Frootmig]

Saw one at WWBW and picked it up. It didn't impress me. The build quality not great and the horn didn't speak to me. Felt about like a student Jupiter.

[Silscio]

From my experience, there's no worse horn than a Jupiter--they are about the worst of the worst....

[retread]

Amati professional clarinets have been getting rave reviews on the Clarinet Bulletin Board.

[pkwinter]

Hi Gandalfe,
Thanks for your comment. I get the feeling that you don't care for the Amati. Unfortunately, Santa Claus bought me one and I did not have the opportunity to run after him and declare the gift "garbage". Somehow I feel that even if I had known that the instrument was garbage I would not have told him.

As for my question, it was an honest and innocent question. Not knowing how long it takes to get an answer, any answer, I went to a reputable store that has experts on staff and asked them the same question I posted. All I indicated to the first respondent was that experienced sax repair people thought that the Amati is an exceptionally solid construction. Note they did not comment on the musical qualities of the instrument.

In response to your note, I had no answer of my own, and I certainly did not "lambaste" anyone. It's not my style. But now, I must confess, I am somewhat surprised about the heat generated by something as trivial as my posting.

[Hurling Frootmig]

What's your impression of the horn since you are living with it?

[pkwinter]

Well, that's just it. I don't have a good basis of comparison largely because of my inexperience as a player. I've been honking for a couple of years but I'm mostly self-taught relying on a bunch of instructional materials and CDs.

So, for whatever it's worth, I think the Amati ATS 61 is unusually heavy. It's built like a tank. The action is OK but the quality of sound I can produce is poor though it varies greatly depending on which room of our house I am playing in. From time to time the quality of sound is rich and quite pleasant. I'll try to find an experienced tenor player and ask him to try the Amati. My main objective now is to find out to what extent is the poor tone due to flaws in my embouchure. Of course, it would be easier to blame the Amati.

Just found in a British sax guide a note to the effect that the Czech Amati factory "makes many saxes for other companies." I wonder what label goes on those.

[Merlin]

I have limited experience with Amati saxes. I DO have a student who plays one, and she sounds really good on it. Her intonation is just fine, though I suspect it would be on just about any horn.

I have played Amati bassoons and oboes and found the quality surprisingly good.

[Hurling Frootmig]

You may want to try recording yourself and listening to the playback. I had an interesting experience listening to myself in my brother's studio live through the headphones.

After getting an idea of how you sound on the recording you may want to try some different reed/mouthpiece combinations to get an idea about how it changes your sound.

[pknight]

pkwinter:

Two observations: First, if I were looking for an unbiased opinion on the quality of an instrument, I would not go to the employees of a retail outlet that sold that brand of instrument.

Second, when I was just starting up on the sax again after a long absence, I had a cheap instrument, and I thought it was great. That lasted until I got my hands on a truly good instrument.

As you point out, you don't have a good basis for comparison at this point. Perhaps your sax will serve you well for a long time. However, the reputation of the Amati is not among the best, as indicated by several of the posts here. This doesn't mean that they aren't adequate, but you started out by asking what people thought, and they told you. I guess the old warning applies: Be careful what you ask for, as you might get it.

[singlereed]

I think the other names Amati has used include Corton and Lafleur. The quality is as with other Eastern Europe produced products, for years they were the centre for low budget products and their work was often clumsy and variable in quality - just like their cars for example. With the fall of communism, many factories have re-tooled and tidied up their quality and they do have a lot of skilled craftsmen out there as well as a great tradition of music making. As someone else observed, some Amati products are very good and I would expect them to carry on improving. They have low wage costs and for us in Europe, easier transport than from the far East.

[stitch]

Just found in a British sax guide a note to the effect that the Czech Amati factory "makes many saxes for other companies." I wonder what label goes on those.

About 14 years ago I bought a new Amati alto, in my first phase of sax playing (lasted some 18 months...) and was told by the music shop they were the same as Boosey & Hawkes models. Dunno if that's still true today though.

[singlereed]

Boosey used to get its budget horns from East Europe and sold them under their Lafleur and Champion brands. So your dealer was almost certainly right. They previously sourced horns from Weltklang as well, I believe. Their B&H 400 and recent Evette horns were made in the Peoples' Republic of China. Don't go there. Not for a saxophone, anyway.

[Cameron Wigmore]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yo! I WORKED at that L&M store in Toronto. Bloor and Ossington. Yeah, we sold those horns. If you're just gonna tinkle with it for fun in the basement, go nuts. I'm glad you chose a sax as your instrument.
But listen man, We sold those things. Don't feel bad for buying their story - they're salesmen. A guy doesn't sell a horn by telling you that for twice as much you'll get a much, much better one. They're good people there. That's a great store and their customer relations and follow up is great. You chose wisely with who you've done bussiness with, but your sax is one notch up from a wall ornament.
I posted back right away when I saw your original post, but as was said before, you seemed to already be in the middle of it. Enjoy the sax. If it plays, you'll have fun.

[pkwinter]

Did a quick search on Google using key words "Amati Kraslice saxophone Czech". Lots of interesting stuff came up. Most relevant is that with the demise of communism the Amati Kraslice works has reverted to private ownership and care for quality. (Not much use to me because mine was made in 1961) Today these guys are shipping brass instruments all over the world, the US being their largest market.

There is also an interesting connection between the former CERVENY factory and Amati:


"CERVENY took part in many industry and world exhibitions, i. e. Munich (1854), Paris (1855, 1867, 1878, 1889), London (1862), Vienna (1873), Philadelphia (1876), Barcelona (1888) and Chicago (1893).
CERVENY instruments consistently receive the highest honors. For example, the International July of the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893 awarded CERVENY the highest prize and stated in the accompanying diploma "CERVENY Wind Instruments deserve an award: For superior tone quality, being rich, resonant and of excellent carrying power. For perfection of finish and a superiority of workmanship."
In 1948 CERVENY Factory became a part of the State Enterprise, AMATI Kraslice, one of the world's largest brass and woodwind manufacturers. In 1973 it was moved to the new premises at Hradec Kralove, close to the original location."

ps When did you work with L&M? I bought my Amati at Allegro Music ...

[Cameron Wigmore]

I worked there years ago, at two different locations.

The other think to consider is that every single sax is different. I believe in the rule of fridays: if it was made on a friday, it's goona be a lame horn. Maybe you happened upon a good Amati. Regardless, untill you've been playing seriously for a few years it won't matter. Good luck!

[lebowskiguy]

Thats the one I got from the Czech republik. Of course it was because amati saxes are even cheeper there and the price deferences between them and Yamaha saxes here in greece are hilarious. Short budget, fewer choices... :cry:
But I wonder If anyone has tried it, which are the differences with the ATS 61
and if the yamahas for example are worth the something-like-twice price :|

[tazonsax]

I've played my Amati semi professionally for several years now. Ergonomically it is a little quirky, but as for quality, I can't complain at all. It does everything I ask and with superb intonation and a nice smooth action. Not bad for a horn that was "thrown" together in 1960.
Ps sorry I took nearly 6 years to reply to your original post lol.