Japanese-made OEM Saxes?

[smoothjazztenor]

Does anyone have the info about OEM saxes that are made in Japan, instead of Taiwan or China?

I've actually come across a few of these horns that are mostly copies of Yamahas or Yanis.

And some of them are rather well-made too. Intonation is excellent, etc.

[Hurling Frootmig]

As far as I know, Yanagisawa hasn't made a stencil for anyone in a lot of years (probably since the early to mid 80's) and I've never seen a Yamaha stencil. I don't know of anyone else making horns in Japan; however, it could be a company that is putting together horns from parts. I'm not sure what the law says in Japan about that.

[stitch]

I've never seen a Yamaha stencil.

... apart from the Yamaha-made Vitos, of course.

[Randall]

Actually, there are still some Yamaha "stencils" (of a sort) floating around with the name "Nikkan" on them. Nikkan is the wind instrument company Yamaha bought to broaden their line of products.

The last Nikkans produced were exact copies of Yamahas student line with Nikkan on the bell (decals).

[HC]

The only Yanagisawa stencil I could think of is the Vito Bari.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I forgot about the Yamaha Vito's. It's not like I don't see lots of those on eBay! I guess I'm just showing my horn snob side. Who counts student horns? :D

[Pete]

Vito altos from a few years back were Yamaha YAS-25's (not 23's or 32's).

Vito baritones have been Yanagisawas for a very long time. I think they're currently 901's or something like that (feel free to correct me on that one).

Aren't Antigua Winds (http://www.antiguawinds.com/) horns Japanese made? They're not stencils, of course, but are essentially copies of Yanagisawa horns. They're fairly decent student instruments, from what I hear.

I don't recall if Unison is Taiwanese or Japanese.

=======

The point is essentially, "I don't particularly care WHERE it was made, as long is it's a good horn." If you assume that Japanese = great horn, you're overgeneralizing.

[Randall]

Pete! Antigua Winds are in NO WAY Japanese horns!
Where on earth did you hear that!?
Absolutely Taiwanese, as is the Unison.
The Antiguas are probably the cheapest, quality Taiwanese horn available in Japan.

I think you may have confused distribution....
Nonaka Boeki, which is the importer/distributor here in Japan, says that Selmer Japan now has some relationship with Antigua Winds, and Nonaka Boeki is distributing these horns.

[Pete]

Pete! Antigua Winds are in NO WAY Japanese horns!
Where on earth did you hear that!?
Absolutely Taiwanese, as is the Unison.
The Antiguas are probably the cheapest, quality Taiwanese horn available in Japan.

I think you may have confused distribution....
Nonaka Boeki, which is the importer/distributor here in Japan, says that Selmer Japan now has some relationship with Antigua Winds, and Nonaka Boeki is distributing these horns.Ah, our resident expert in Japan! How ya doin'?

I seriously *didn't* know if Antigua was Japanese or not, hence the question (and when I went to the distributor website you mention, it was only in Japanese, which I can't read). All I've ever really heard about Antigua is, "Yanagisawa copy".

I think it's a bit telling that manufacturers from Taiwan and China *don't* post even on their official websites that their horns are made in China or Taiwan. Yani and Yamaha make no bones about being Japanese, as Selmer makes no bones about being from France (no jokes about how they make trombones, please).

It's odd, especially considering some of these are decent horns ...

[stitch]

Vito altos from a few years back were Yamaha YAS-25's (not 23's or 32's).

Interesting - Yamahas must be numbered differently for the European market.

We had (oldest first) 21, 23, 25 and now 275, and the Yam-Vitos are definitely 23s.

[Randall]

Stitch Yamaha doesn't use different numbers for different countries. 8-)

[Randall]

BTW Pete,
The Antigua bari sax is a dead-on copy of the Selmer Series II bari....rather than the Yani.

It is just an amazing player too. If I had it to do over again (and this horn had been available at the time), I honestly would have bought the Antigua and saved myself half the cash I spent- then send it to Jason for an engrave-a-mundo and still have a lot of money to spare.

[stitch]

Stitch Yamaha doesn't use different numbers for different countries. 8-)

Thanks Randall. I thought they might because I see so many new 23s on US eBay, and since the 23 is two models back, different numbers seemed the obvious explanation.

So ... that begs the question: whyare there so many new 23s on US eBay?

[Pete]

Interesting - Yamahas must be numbered differently for the European market.

We had (oldest first) 21, 23, 25 and now 275, and the Yam-Vitos are definitely 23s.The 25 was released for the Asian market and the 23 for the rest of the world. There are very slight differences between the 23 and 25, but the Vito's a 25, not a 23 :D.

The difference it makes overall? Not too darn much. They're both student horns. There are more obvious differences between the, say, YAS61 and YAS62.

I was browsing the Antigua website today and they have an interesting variety of horns. Some are definite Yani copies. Some are definite Selmer copies. Then again, the Yani is a Selmer copy, anyhow :).

(There are a couple companies saying that they make "computer copies" of Selmer instruments. Will research which ones.)

My opinion why there are so many YAS-23's on eBay is because student X is required to buy a sax and a lot of teachers say, "Buy a Yamaha". Student X then quits playing ....

[russps]

Vito altos from a few years back were Yamaha YAS-25's (not 23's or 32's).



I've never heard of a 25, but I googled it and did find it. I found no good information.

Here are the differences between the YAS23 and the Japanese Vito

Yamaha has clear lacquer, vito has gold (orange?)

Yamaha has an adjustable plastic thumbrest, vito has a fixed metal thumbrest (older yamahas did not have the plastic thumbrest)

logos on neck and bell (I guess a little obvious).

Yamahas and vitos have slightly different pads. The resonator on the vito has a brass snap, the Yamaha is heat staked. Yamaha pads are shellacked in, the vitos use hotmelt.

I would have to assume that the Vitos are assembled in a different factory than the Yamahas (but the corks and felts are all the same. Interesting).


Russ

[stitch]

Now I'm really confused :?


Stitch Yamaha doesn't use different numbers for different countries. 8-)


The 25 was released for the Asian market and the 23 for the rest of the world.

Some thoughts: the reason I equated the student Vitos with the 23 is that (as far as I am aware) they're no longer stencilled by Yamaha, therefore they must be an older model.

BUT the 23 seems to be the current model in the US (http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,6373,CNTID%3D641%26CTID%3D240300%26ATRID%3D10%26 DETYP%3DATTRIBUTE,00.html) whereas in Europe at least it has been superceded first by the 25 and now the 275.

Of course, the US 23 may be exactly the same as the European 275, but the latter is definitely different from its earlier variants, the 21, 23 and 25.

One last thought ... I can't believe I'm so interested in this ... do I need help? :shock:

[Dave dix]

YES
Dave

[Pete]

OK, the 23 and 25 have essentially the only differences mentioned above, which are minor, at best. The other difference is the some 25's have an altissimo F#. No 23's do.

Hmmm. Adjustable thumbrest vs. altissimo F# key ....

YAS-25 pics. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7328088851)

The 23/25 and 275 are completely different animals. I don't know if they changed or tweaked the bore, but the 275 has keywork that's similar to my old 52 -- or the current 475, whereas the 23/25 is what I'd call "Bundly-like" keywork (in appearance; don't flame me). You can check out the 275 and 475 at http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe/english_master/10_musical_instruments/20_orchestra/10_woodwind/60_saxophones/index.html

While I don't fault anyone for being interested, that's a lotta work for a student horn!

[frobig]

The differences between the 23 and the Vito are dead on. As far as I know, the Vitos are assembled in Kenosha. I saw some of this assembly being done there in '02, and the Leblanc rep admitted it recently by way of not passing the buck for their terrible padding (very decent thing to do). I fix rental saxes 5-6 days a week, and I know these two models really well. Most of the Yamahas I see are from Grand Rapids, but some say "Made in Japan." And hey, don't dis student horns too much. Raise your hand if you started with a Mark VI...that's what I thought. And as a guy who's had 3 tenors in his life, and two were a 30M and a Super 20, I'm more impressed every time I try out a Bundy II these days. (Not with the ergos, or the layout from a tech's perspective, but they sound and respond great to me.)
Also--don't forget the Martins from the eighties (maybe before?) that were Yani stencils.
And--of course there are tons of similarities between Selmers and Yanis these days, after all, making a sax that doesn't copy Selmer to some extent is a good way to go broke. But are they really no better than Selmer copies? I had an 880 alto for a while, and I thought it had a little more personality than that.
I liked what saxpics said about the glut of 23's on eBay too. Our rentals often come back in next-to-new condition, probably because kids never took them out of the case, once they realized they didn't play.

[mercury5]

Hi to all MeBNu here,
OK for all you posters, I recently acquired a Vito (Taiwan) 140XXX with an adjustable black plastic thumbrest. So much for that detail... Oh, by the way it plays and sounds great for all those who swear only by the made in Japan. The octave key is actually much smoother than the one on my also recently acquired YAS-23. And about the YAS-23 055XXX it does not, read DOES NOT, have an adjustable thumbrest even though the manual in the case explains how to adjust it!! It's got a simple weld on. (both saxes were bought used, who can afford new anyways?) If anyone can explain this why my saxes have got the thumbrest thing opposite to what everyone says, I'm all ears.
Thanks and later
MF

[david1105]

Hi, I am a beginner and I've been recommended j.michael al-500.
Does anyone have any idea about this brand/model??
the price is around 500 $..

[Saxplayer67]

Who counts student horns? :D

Those who can't afford anything else, that's who! :twisted:

I'm better on my B & S-made 'Meister' than others on Mark VIs and other so-called pro saxes (i.e. overpriced). ;)

[bruce bailey]

As far as Yanagisawa stencils, I have seen Vito Sopranos and Baris, Martin Galaxy Alto and Tenors and most of the Whitehall saxes. It seems that all the Vito Altos and Tenors were Yamaha. Look for the Vito sopranos in both straight and curved. Really great horns for the money.

[Dave Dolson]

. . . and the Yanagisawa-made Dorado 600 straight sopranos from the 1970's. DAVE