my king super20 sounds dark.

[benjamin1979]

i have a super 20 tenor which the serial number is 613314. this tenor sound dark and old compare to mark 6 or modern horn. i thought king should be a rock sax.

btw, my low note from low e is hard to produce.

any idea?

[mr00420]

King is not a "rock" sax, and neither is a MVI. I guess some people think S20s are good R&B, blues, or be-bop horns b/c they think they're bright. I disagree. I've always thought of Kings as relatively dark horns, but maybe everyone thinks they're bright b/c they're so easy to blow (and hence overblow.) A MVI has more resistance when blown through. I think either of these horns is suitable for ANY music... it just depends on mpc, reed combo, and most especially the PLAYER.

You probably have a leak somewhere on your horn if the E is giving you trouble and maybe your mpc isn't a good fit for you and your horn. A different strength/brand of reed will also change your sound on the horn, as will a change in mpc. How long have you played this horn? when was it's last check-up?

This being said, there is NO REASON that you're King S20 shouldn't be an awesome ROCK SAX, or an awesome sax for any other style of music. Sounds like it just needs some shop work, and a little experimentation w/ different mpc/ reed combos (but I'd get the leak fixed first.)

[benjamin1979]

i checked, but the problem is i live in malaysia. so i cant find a really experience repairer. i also found that maybe my pad height also affect the thing. this is due to the whole horn have a few different brand and type of pad.

[mr00420]

You should probably have all the pads on your horn be the same brand and material from top to bottom. If you're going to fix it yourself you're going to have to find the equipment somewhere. I'm sure there's a decent repair man somewhere in Malaysia, they have Army bands and such, too... so the must have a decent repair man (he doesn't have to be great to find a leak in your horn or replace the pads well enough toget your horn to play relatively well.)

I suppose you could send your horn to one of the sites that advertises on the web, but it'd be expensive and would take a while.

Have you had the horn long? Where did you get it?

[benjamin1979]

i just had it for 2 months, for this tenor, what pad u recommended? what brand? :lol:

[Mike Ruhl]

I've played a Super 20 tenor for over 25 years, and I completely agree with everything mr00420 said. In fact, if you look at the old King advertisements, you'll find that they referred to the Super 20 as having a dark sound.

From Malaysia, you may be best sending your horn to Sarge at www.worldwidesax.com. He has a great deal of experience with these horns.

[benjamin1979]

thanks, but the website u gave me is unavailable. any idea what kind of pad i shold look for? thanks :D

[mr00420]

See, I knew someone on this site could help you find someone to repair your horn... even if it's in Malaysia!!! Nice goin' M.

What kind of pad? Well I personally would go w/ some kind of leather (kangaroo is popular now, but I'm sure it's pricey too,) but I think you should discuss that w/ your repair man. Especially being in Malaysia, all that humidity has got be hell on your pads. Your repair man might advise some synthetic material pad... they're really popular theses days, and well thought of (also a bit more expensive I think, but might last longer than leather in your climate.) You'll have to think about resonators too, plastic or metal, etc.... but like I said, it's really something you should talk over w/ the guy who's going to work on your sax.

[max]

The www.worldwidesax.com site is working - the link in meruhl's post just slurped up the period at the end of the sentence, which doesn't work.

[Mike Ruhl]

thanks, but the website u gave me is unavailable. any idea what kind of pad i shold look for? thanks :D
Only you can decide what type of pad to get. If you're wanting to make that horn into a rock & roll screamer, then you'll probably want some hard pads with specialty resonators (like Noyeks) for maximum brightness and projection. If you want a little mellower sound, so you can blend with a sax section, then you'll likely want some softer pads with either flat or regular domed resonators. Check out www.worldwidesax.com and read about the various types of pads Sarge uses. World Wide Sax is in Washington state, USA, btw.

[Mike Ruhl]

Or if you like to experiment and have money to burn, you could get a set of Jim Schmidt's new metal-plated pads:

http://cvip.fresno.com/~js210/pad.html

[benjamin1979]

thanks guys...

[addissax]

Ben '79... Your serial number indicates that your super 20 is one of the
later-produced horns, which suffered quality problems. One possible
solution is to change your setup. Try a Brilhart Level-Aire, at least #6
with a Rovner Eddie Daniels II lig. Also experiment with different reeds
and hardness...I use a BARI*TSH. This should open up your horn.
Good luck.......................

[benjamin1979]

so is it mean that my sax arent that good? what will lack compare to early production?

[brucesax]

I too have played a S-20 tenor for 30-years. I like the horn but have always felt that it was a bit on the dark side. I have mentioned this before on the site in contrast to so many that felt that the S-20 was very bright. I have contributed this to the S-20 projecting the sound outward vs. the Selmer which tends to have a more centered tone. After following discussions concerning pads & resos, I realized that my S-20 has soft Allied pads & no resos. I now believe that this may be contributing a large part to the dark sound. I play a Buffet LeJazz mouthpiece which does brighten the sound. You may also want to consider a pad / reso setup that would brighten your sound. Perhaps Prestini pads (which are harder) with either plastic domed (Selmer-like) or flat silver resos.

Also, I now also have a Selmer SSS tenor. I thought that it would play dark due to the vintage of the instrument & that the bell keys are on the left side. But to my surprise it speaks loudly & is much brighter than I ever expected. Both great tenors but it shows me that the setup makes a marked difference.

Brucesax

[addissax]

No, Ben,,,,you may have a good horn, but King essentially got out of
the professional horn business...gradually. For more info, check out
SaxGourmet or www.saxpics.com for links that will better inform you
of King's history. You can find the various differences in models/year
of production. Tried a big bell Cannonball recently with my S20 setup
and was impressed......Good luck and I hope you find a solution....

[addissax]

Forgot to add that my S20 has metal resos...but to me, to be bright--
a horn has to be free-blowing, and that's in the setup / neck...Earlier,
I was using a Selmer C* that would "muffle" the sound because it was
not open enough. "SETUP" makes a huge difference....

[Tenorfoot]

I got my 1958 s20 from sarge at worldwidesax
its got black goatskin pads & flat oversized metal reso's
imo its dark & i like it !
I can't over blow it [a real monster]
but like its been said M/P & reed have a lot to do with it