YAS21 and 23

[stitch]

I'm considering a used Yamaha for my ten year old daughter, and I've seen YAS 21s and 23s as student models on eBay. Can anyone tell me what the difference is? Is the 21 perhaps an older model? Thanks in advance.

[max]

The 21 is a little older, and I think some people consider them to be a little better (at least they do with the 61 vs. the 62).

If you're looking for a bargain on a 23, though, I'm selling one. It's seen some use, but it plays well. If you're interested, e-mail me - we can work out a price lower than what I have it in the marketplace for...

max987456@yahoo.com

[madsax]

Phew...the 23? *pukes* I played on one when mine was in for repairs and its the most horrible thing ever! Well...maybe not that bad. But there is something wrong with the way their Low C# mechanism is built. It opens very easily...try plugging the bell, close all the keys, and blow. It makes low notes hard.

[pknight]

Madsax,

Perhaps your 23 puked, but this is certainly not the case generally. I have a YAS-23 for a backup right now, and I have never had an alto that spoke so freely on the bell notes. Perhaps you needed to have the one you played adjusted, and perhaps you needed to play more than one 23 before you decided to trash the entire line.

[mpcbliss]

To the orig question: dif between 21 and 23.
I have both, tho not before my eyes at the moment.
The 21 had a stationary metal RH thumb rest, the 23 was moveable plastic
The 21 has some stack keys mounted on separate posts, while the 23 has mounted these on the same post (this is a cost-saving measure, it doesn't affect sound)
The 21 has a removeable bell, the 23 has a soldered bell-bow connection
Yes, the 21 is the older model.
Note that I also currently have 2 Vito's that are YAS23's (stamped Japan under SN)......in case you see these in your ebay searches.
The difs between these and the official Yamahas are: color of lacquer, cutout design in keyguards, Vito has 21-style RH thumbrest, imprint stamp on neck octave key is Leblanc logo.
These are the basics, as again I'm not looking at the horns as I type this.
As for playing quality, I agree with pkknight above.
I get these sort of horns as part of package deals for high-end instruments, usually. So I have gone thru many of them over the years.
And some are "thin and loud" and others are dark and mellow.
There are those who say the Yamaha-Vitos (most Vitos aren't made by Yamaha....look for the "Japan" stamp) are considered superior to the actual 23's.
Maybe they are more talented and knowledgeable than I, since some examples are really nice and others are kind of strident. Or maybe they just haven't played dozens of them.
If cost is a consideration, I'd say getting a 21 would save you plenty, judging from the greatly lowered demand for these, since people have no idea what the difs are between them.
Just make sure it's in splendiferous condition, as since it's going to be an older instrument it has had more years to have issues.
I have not measured tone hole dimensions, or placement.....Mr. Minear would be the expert on that if any changes were made in those regards.
But a perfect-playing 21 would likely be just as suitable for your use as a perfect-playing 23 (or Yam-Vito), from my general experience.
But any specific horn may be better than any specific other horn, in the judgement of a specific player with specific preferences.
Verb sap. Specifically.

[pknight]

mpcbliss,

Another 21 vs. 23 difference is in the side Bb and C keys. The 21 has the Yamaha 61-style linkage at the base of these keys, where a little peg goes all the way through the bottom of the key lever. I have an older Vito that is essentially identical to a 21, and it has this linkage. On the Vito this linkage is a bit loose and noisy, but on my 61 it is very quiet. Perhaps the Vito has just seen more use.

[stitch]

Thanks for all the posts, they've been really useful. I was considering a Yamaha as an alternative to one of my vintage altos for my daughter to learn on - however, she was quite upset to think she couldn't use one of mine, so we'll put the Yamaha on hold for the time being.

[Gordon (NZ)]

I agree too with pknight re madsax's statement.
I have worked on plenty student alto Yamahas and they ALL speak very easily when in adjustment. They keep adjustment well too. Dents are very difficult to remove, indicating robustness. The low notes even speak well when the instrument has many small leaks. That is a triumph of design.

[SelmerSaksMan]

I know that I definately am not a yamaha fan and am probably not welcome here either, but I have a few things to day: My teacher lent me his 21 so that I could leave it at school while my AS300 is being worked on. I could not beleive the quality, it is like it was made by a completely different company, it is by no means cheap looking or built like the modern ones are. And I particularly like the G# mechanism, and the Key work is superior, so smooth, just as smooth as my series III, it could be a little more comfortable, but hey its a student instrument. I think the smoothness might have something to do with the greater lack of cost saving measures. The tone too was superior to the 23, and the pads are of much higher quality that what come on a modern yamaha, I guess they could have been replaced, but my teacher usually replaces pads with the ones with flat steel resos, and I only see 3 or 4 of those on the whole horn. And if I remember correct, it doesnt have that cheap uni-keyguard either, the keys actually have some protection. I just cannot say enough about this horn, If I could redo my purchase of my student model - 5 years ago, I think I might actually have taken the 21, the better keyboard on the AS300 would be the arguing factor. (Speaking of superior tone to a 23, I also thought the tone superior to a yas 62 AND the yas 61, WOW!)

[Feebee]

I just purchased a YAS21 on ebay for $244. I have not yet had a chance to listen to the sound, but I'm crossing my fingers. Buying anything on the internet sight unseen is a crap shoot, but I figure for $244 I'll take my chances. Thanks for the info on the 21 vs. 23 models! :) When I know how this plays, I'll put in my 2 cents. Although this will be 2nd hand from my son who will be playing it, AND I know nothing about saxophones! :)
You guys have been most kind. Thanks!

[atto0]

would u sell me 23's at 150dollar

[JfW]

would u sell me 23's at 150dollar

I hate to be presumptious and step in for the Mods, but since they haven't responded to you I'll just try to be as helpfull as I can.

Atto, you've posted to quite a lot of threads searching for a basic student model alto saxophone, many of those threads are quite old, and this thread here doesn't even offer a horn for sale. My suggestion is to concisely post what you are looking for in the Horns Wanted (http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=163) area in the Marketplace instead of hunting up old posts and such. I think you would have better luck if you started a thread allowing people to come to you rather than chasing ofter old deals and such.