Nickel-Silver/Silverplate... finishes on Keilwerth Tenors

[CU399333]

I was wondering where can I find silverplated Keilwerth SX90R. I can't find them anywhere on-line. I've heard good things about them.

Also, how does sound of silverplated Keilwerth compare to new Nickel-Silver Body finsh? I heard silverplated has warmer sound, but Nickel-Silver body finish is more powerful and brighter. Does Nickel-Silver body offer advantage compared to silver plated(brass) body?

Another thing.... Since I like Nickel-Silver body's powerful sound and responsiveness, but want a warmer sound.. Is it possible to get a Nickel-Silver Body with vintage lacquer? Is this possible situation?

[Morry]

I haven't personally ever seen the silverplated JKs, although I'm sure they can be had. I would suggest that you contact Stephan Boesken in Germany. If it can be acquired from JK, he's the man to get it.

StephanBoesken@t-online.de

[CU399333]

Has anyone played both of these horns? What are you opinions on both? Their sound quality, tone, depth, richness... etc. Any inputs are appreciated.

[Subtone Sam]

CU39933,I play silverplated SX90R tenor.These are not very common horns,mine was made special order in the Keilwerth factory.Stephan Boesken was the one who made the arrangements,he is the one you should contact.Stephans work and service I can highly recommend.

Before silverplated version I played the nickel-silver for a while.Its powerful horn with resonant sound.I still prefer the silverplated version though,the sound is warmer with the "ring" the silver provides.I think the silverplated SX90R is the warmest of the JKs but it still has the edge and cut needed.

[CU399333]

Hey Subtone sam or anyone else,

How bad is tarnish on silverplated keilwerth? I've never owned a silverplated sax and worried about time and effort to keep the sax looking good.

oh. and for subtone sam..... how does silverplated compare with nickel plated w/ vintage gold lacquer?

[Randall]

I was at the factory last week and tried all flavors of JK tenor, including the silver and nickel silver.
I had Mr. Rascher and Stephan there to tell me what they thought of the sound of my 3 finalists: The NS, the vintage laq over nickel (to steal one from Steve Goodson, "the the big, warm, fuzzy eared rabbit") and the silver plated.
To my ears the silver had a punch and brightness that I liked the most, but to the other 2 guys ears the NS was the best by far. The NS is indeed a powerful and versatile horn though, more so than the silver. I suppose if you like silver horns, (as I do) the silver may be the way to go, although the NS is certainly every bit as good and probably better (according to the guys there).
My real choice though, much to my surprise, was the vintage laq over nickel...but I must temper this with the fact that it was one of the older JK's, made before they changed the low D tone hole and reduced the bell size....so I wrote it off the choice list because the current production doesn't really include the EXACT same horn.
The silver horn has a clear laq finish that will keep the horn from tarnishing, but the first little scratch or bang on the horn will start a tarnishing process from that point that will make you wish you didn't have clear laq on it.
The verdict: get the NS, experiment with mouthpieces and reeds. I got entirely different sounds when I took the spoiler out of my mp when playing this horn- once again to raves from the guys there.

[CU399333]

Randall, Subtone Sam, and anyone else,

I read your posts and they were a great help.

I believe Subtone Sam has played both NS and vintage gold lacquer SX90R. How do you compare these two saxes in terms of brightness, power, fullness, etc.

Also, is NS suitable for classical music as well as jazz? I heard somewhere that NS isn't really suitable for classical music since its sound is so much brighter than nickel plated.

I've narrowed my choice to Keilwerth Nickel-Silver, Keilwerth vintage gold lacquer and Selmer Reference 54. Does anyone have preferences, pros/cons, opinions or any other comment among these horns?

[Bootman]

The NS is a very bright horn, I have the vintage gold lacquer currently and have owned a Black Nickel model in the past. The vintage gold lacquer is by far the warmest or darkest sounding of the JK finishes. The plain gold lacquer is ok but it lacks the zing of the other finishes in the JK range.

I would suggest either BN or VG would be the way to go. In the end you will have to decide for yourself.

[dhl28]

Hello there.

in light of talking SX90R finishes.... how does black nickel finish hold up to the wear? Some say black nickels finish is very durable, and some say it's not too durable. Also, some ppl say when the lacquer wears off, sax looks horrible. Any opinions?

[Kosma]

I've played a nickel plate, black nickel, and my own "plain" gold lacquer.
(got plenty of zing-don't be talkin bout my zing)

The differences are so slight that you might as well pick the one that looks the best to you. They're all killer!

Randall- What's this about a changed D key? I heard about a change to the low C key so I'm confused. I never heard about smaller bells either.
What was that for? How much smaller?

My horn is a 104K and it plays every bit as good as my friend's BN 116K.
When I say as good, I mean almost identical in sound and feel.
I'll line 'em up again first chance I get just to make sure. Since I've had my horn for a while now maybe I'll notice more of a difference.

Who can say definitively that percieved differences are due to the finish and not something else? Has anyone here played several horns in the same finish side by side? That would be interesting.

[Morry]

I've got a dark gold lacquer alto coming from Stephan. I hope the bell size has not been reduced on it. The bell helps get that big sound, and I love the vintage look it gives.

[CU399333]

I have a question about ordering.... I am from US and I am wondering where I should order my KW from. My choices are Stephan or Tim from Sax Alley(US).

Does anybody know if Stephan goes to the Keilwerth factory and hand picks the horns? If so, does this mean I can ask him to find a certain type of horn (ie. darker sounding ones) and he will play a few to find the perfect one?

I believe Tim orders them from the factory.. which means whatever is sent to him is what I am going to get.. no choice. What are your thoughts on this matter?

Another concern is price. Stephan is asking 3000 + 300 = 3300 euros(about $3750) for NS Keilwerth. Tim is only asking $3325 plus shipping. Who would you order it from?

Any advice would be good. Thanks.

[Bootman]

Both are good guys, you will be well looked after by either. The decision is yours in the end.

My choice would be a Vintage lacquer over NS model tenor for versatility and a more usuable horn in a variety of situations. The NS is great and the ref 54 isn't quite what it is supposed to be. All are good horns and you will have to play these horns for yourself because what suits my tastes may not be perfect for your tastes and usage of the tenor you buy.

[Morry]

CU...don't rule USA Horn out as a possible source. They have the dark lacquer over nickel tenor in stock or $3450, and I know from talking to them that they will come down at least $100 on any price they show. Their trial policy is generous, and they are good folks to work with. Also, the best possible price can probably be had from Mathew's in Holland. You can probably get the horn from them for just over $3000.

Having said that, I chose to get my SX90R alto (coming tomorrow) from Stephan. His price wasn't the best, nor was the price I got on my SX90R from my local retailer the best, but if it's within a few hundred then I deal with whoever I get the best vibe from.

[Randall]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy from either Tim at Sax Alley or Stephan.
Both fellows are superb in my book....and you can be sure of fast and reliable service, packing and delivery- not to mention a FINE horn!
I must say that if you buy from Stephan, get his pro set up...you'll be glad you did.

[CU399333]

Bootman,

You mentioned Vintage gold Lacquered Nickel Silver Keilwerth. I was wondering about it too and send Stephan an e-mail about it. What he said was he wanted see Nickel Silver with Vintage gold lacquer but Keilwerth said they wouldn't produce it.

What were you talking about then?

[Morry]

It is nickel plated over brass, then dark gold lacquer over that. Go to www.usahorn.com and look at their examples.