Played my first BA today

[bohosheets]

I was early picking up my son from an appt today, so I took a detour to a local music shop. There was a 27xxx BA alto (1939), 70% original laq, no dents, new pads. I tried it out. Now I have a better understanding of the terms "sweet", "dark" and "mellow". My alto reference point is a A901 Yana. My Yana is definately brighter and louder (the BA I would consider to be "refined" or perhaps "reserved" in comparision). OTOH, I was using a borrowed MPC that was too closed and had too soft a reed for my tastes.

I've never played BA/SBA vintage horns. At least I don't think so. 30+ years ago, the first "real" horn I had (after using a beat up school C mel) I borrowed from my Uncle. It was a french Selmer alto, but I don't recall the vintage. I do remember it has the tan Chesterfield zipper case. He took it back for his son to use and my parents bought me a Conn.

It was interesting comparing it to my Mark VI tenor (key wise). The first difference I noticed was the convex pearls. And the LH pinky table felt "shifted" ala a Conn (although not quite so severe). I think the action was set a bit lower than I'm used to. Is that typical for this vintage ? I also noticed on the bell keys the tone holes come *really* close to the outer edge of the pad.

It did indeed have TONE. Maybe I should go back with my mouthpiece.

[Marcel]

Hi,
I tried a BA alto for the first time two days ago also. A Silverplated tarnished by the time (I have to clean it) in excellent condition. I was impressed a lot blowing on it because of the mellow sensation I had also. Really, I think I prefer it to my M6 altos. Now I know why BA are so famous in the alto Selmer's family. So sweet, so dark, so easy to have a lot of variety of sounds.

[Frank D]

I have a 22,xxx BA tenor, and the keys are low on mine as well. It was really surprising how different my '49 10M is in comparison. You'd think it was the older horn, judging by the action. The BA is definitely a sweet-sounding horn.

[AMASAX]

owned a bunch of these babies, and my preference is SBA alto over BA alto, as the sound is just as good(maybe better), and the intonation is for sure better, plus in the SBA you can occasionally find a high F#; in the BA altos, F# is pretty much non-existent(altho i did own a 29,000 series w/F# once, but that's the only one i've ever come across).

I have a Selmer catalog from around 1939, which has some comments about the BA alto having been gone over and having better tuning that before. However, i've never had early & late together to do any kind of comparison to know.
Interestingly enuf, Selmer fooled only with the alto, not the tenor or other stuff.

Find an SBA with a good pad job and give it a honk; if you like the BA, you oughta really dig the SBA.

Btw, in tenor, i kinda of like the BA more than the SBA, but once again, zero chance of finding an F# on a BA (guess you could add one, but kind of a hassle to do so).

[SteveS]

I just bought a 24,xxx (1937) BA Tenor. Definitely not as loud and brassy as my Series II, but SUCH a sweet tone! Action is quite nice for a horn of its vintage.

Probably better off without the high F# key. For high F#, try the index finger and ring finger of the left hand (B and G keys), and the index finger of the right hand (F key). Oh, octave key too. Makes a nice, stable, resonant F# on most horns.

[AMASAX]

i like high F# for more than just getting a high F# out; helps on some altissimo stuff, and also don't overlook the fact that it makes for easy F-F# trills... :wink:

[scale_master]

I have a SBA tenor, which has a fairly open keyheight and metal resos. This setup gives both the sweet tone and a very good responsiveness/projection.

B.

[Frank D]

I use the same F# fingering as SteveS, except I add the middle finger of the right hand as well (think "two and two"). And I never trill F to F# :wink:

[AMASAX]

Frank D, i'll float ya one o' my horns for a bit, so'z you can plug THAT deficiency in your background...you knoweded, there's only 12 notes; sounds like you've got 11.5 of them down pat... :wink: :wink:

Before i picked up F# horns, i used to avoid F# by playing in the key of Gb a lot...NO F# trills there :dazed: :lol:

[hornstar]

For an F-F# trill on my SBA tenor, I use:
F F#
Alt Alt
Bis Bis
2

That's all left hand. F# really needs the RH side-Bb to be up to pitch, so this ain't perfect, but often pitch isn't critical in a fast trill, so this gets by.

BTW, I'm a diehard SBA player, I never played the BA. I know the visible design difference is the upper and lower stacks are in line, and the SBA intonation is supposed to be better. For AMASAX and others who've played both, how would you describe the difference in sound and reponsiveness?

[AMASAX]

BA vs. SBA in tenor:

* BA sounds very much like the earlier vintage stuff, Radio Improved, Super, etc. In listening while playing, to me the BA has more edge, more compact sound, which I prefer to hear MYSELF.

* SBA has a more open, resonant sound.
Whenever i do a comparison with a friend of mine listening, the SBA ends up sounding more resonant, haven't measured anything, but get the feeling the bell or bow is bigger in the SBA.

* unlike many people, i prefer the straight line tone holes on the BA, as SBA and later have my right hand in a more cramped position, whether sitting or standing. But then, i play a lot of clarinet/bass clarinet, so that may have sumpin' to do with the comfort zone.

* I usually use a BA neck on one of my SBAs, but interestingly enuf, am doing a Rock 'n Roll review show called "Smokey Joe's Cafe" right now, and in this environment, a silver plated SBA neck on my relac SBA seems to be the best combo...

BA vs. SBA alto:

* While the BAs have a nice sound and easy response in the low range, the SBA just seems to be improved across the board - more sparkle(bit of edge, maybe?) in the sound while still having the sweetness, too. Better tuning, and for me, a biggie is the availability of F# key. Only seen one on a BA, but if you shop around, you can find 'em on the SBA altos. On the tenors, i've never seen/heard of an F# on anything earlier than the SBA. Had to look a while, but finally ended up with a couple SBA tenors w/F#, which really does come in handy, especially for altissimo G.

So, my interest in tenors goes all the way back to Supers, of which i have some, but in the altos, it pretty much stops at the SBA range.

[AMASAX]

oh, btw, on the SBA altos, I have a Series II gold plated alto with which i've swapped necks with one of my SBA altos, and it appears most/all of the diff in these two horns is in the neck. They each play very much like each other if using the other's neck...

Dunno about this trick for tenors, as i don't have any modern tenors.

[SteveS]

Played my "new" 1937 BA Tenor at a quartet rehearsal the other day and was amazed at how easily it played in tune from top to bottom. Honestly, I expected to have to "work" to play in tune.

Interesting to note that the neck angle of the BA closely resembles that of the SA80 Series II.

[SteveS]

Hey, recorded myself playing the BA tenor along with some Aebersolds. Wow --- sounds even nicer than I thought. Even surprised myself!

Granted, it's not nearly as loud and powerful as my SA80 Series II, but as a solo instrument, or in a small combo, it would be just perfect. It just croons... It's like Bing Crosby....

[Saxdude]

set aside my SBA alto (my son has it now) for a very early proto BA (214XX) tight, compact, sweet (kinda like a old buescher aristocrat) - the BA certainly matches my style of playing for alto.

Now the tenor is another matter. the SBA had some adittional revisions

excerpt from a vintage selmer catalouge regarding the tenor SBA:

("It has all the new Super-Action features...PLUS a new larger bell that adds distinctive appearance, better balance and that extra tonal power and volume demanded by modern tenor saxmen. Low notes and high notes respond readily and with more quality and power than ever before...")

So, Selmer admits to doing something to the tenor that they did not do to the alto. I certainly can lay claim that the SBA (or at least the one I play), provides both volume and projection without a "brassy" sound (play a Yani bronze tenor and you'll know...that sound is not for me!)

I was a bit disappointed that the reference 36 had the offset keys...was hoping that Selmer could duplicate a legend. Is it the brass alloy formula that Selmer used (not 100% brass, ya know...but a well kept secret) or something else (even with computer aided design, not even the new selmers play the same when doing a side by side comparison - but the older BA's and SBA's play good...all of them)

Food for thought and perhaps is why that these horns are enjoying a surge in demand - even over the MKVI (and only ~30k made vs ~190K)