Tenor reeds on alto?

[sopsax]

I've been using tenor reeds on alto forever. I wanted a dark vintage sound, needed to play low-range rhythm parts, and hell, just always craved to play tenor (but stuck to alto and soprano).

I've always been happy with tenor reeds on alto. They kick butt in the low register with deep, macho tones. High notes can be a bit unreliable, but one can compensate. I just never bother with the altissimo range.

Some players I've met are horrified by this secret vice. "You play WHAT on WHAT?!" Yet I know there are others of my kind out there. And I want to hear from you. When did you start? Do you switch-hit? What are your results with various reeds, ligs, and mouthpieces?

The late Jon Van Wie once declined to reface a Meyer 7M for me, saying "I don't like to set an alto piece up for a tenor reed. I think the width and length of the alto reed reflects the notes the alto sax is capable of making. TENOR reeds are for tenor!"

As I experiment with various setups, I'm beginning to think maybe the man was right. I've used some alto reeds on my alto (a Couf Superba II) lately, and by gosh they sing righteously up there in the high notes. I sound like an actual alto player again instead of a tenor wannabe. But oh, man, am I still addicted to those tenor-reed low notes that rumble right through you like thunder. Tell me what you know, people.

[morgan]

Sounds like you already know the whole story. Amazing that you can keep the beast in tune though.

[sopsax]

morgan: In tune? What's that? Don't the notes just play OK automatically when you finger the right key combination?

[pknight]

C'mon now. You must have done it. Come clean. How does the soprano sound with the tenor reed?

[Jeff Foster]

I never met John Van Wie. Too bad. I'm sure I would have liked him. He was obviously a very wise man.

[Morry]

So, will I get more low end out of my little Eb sopranino if I use bari reeds?

[Jazzophone]

hah, I was just going to start a topic like this one. I play an Otto Link 4* on bari right now, and it's (VERY surprisingly) one of our school's mouthpieces. I love it to death -- but there was one small problem. There's no ligature for it. And the other two bari 'pieces we have are gigantic compared to this sleek little job, so I couldn't very well use one of their ligs.

I couldn't even use the lig off of my sax (tenor) -- but having found an alto that wasn't in use during pit band, I stole the ligature and tried that out. Not only did it fit perfectly with the Link but it plays really well! Go figure. I've been using a Selmer alto ligature on it ever since. :)

[MojoBari]

I've dabbled, but I think you give up more than you gain by using the "wrong" size reed. For a fat tenor-like sound on alto, I find open high baffle pieces with alto reeds will get you there. Try a Vandoren Jumbo Java in a A55 (or larger).

[sopsax]

MojoBari: You being a refacer as well as a player, I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Care to recommend any other suitable alto mouthpieces for that tenor-style gravitas? Currently I play on a JodyJazz 8. The JJ is a tad bright, but I like it. If I were to switch, I'd gravitate toward a dark retro sound rather than a bright contemporary sound.

I'm still hoping to hear from happy, unrepentant tenor-reed-blowing altoists -- cats who went over to the Dark Side and never came back. Or am I the last holdout?

[MojoBari]

For the tenor sound on alto, I think you want to explore wide tips and softer reeds. Like .100" on alto with 2.5 reeds if you have a high baffle, softer if there is less baffle. A .090"/2.5 reed with no baffle may work too.

Just realize that this is not a sound/set-up that is easy to make work in all alto performance situations. Intonation is harder to control and it is not a good sax section lead sound (in my opinion). But for small combos, anything goes.

[Razzy]

I tried this for a while, dug the nice fat sound and all, but my upper range suffered, tone quality went down drastically, and intonation suffered a bit as well. I since then switched to a closed mouthpiece with hard alto reed and have made much improvement, I also like the sound better now.

[Thomas]

Don't worry Sopsax you are not alone. I too am an unrepentent,confirmed user of tenor reeds on alto-always have been and will not be convinced otherwise. I've always used Selmer soloist mpcs D_E_F with RR#3 on alto be they vintage or modern and though there may be slight intonational issues I think they're so insignificant I don't worry about it. Of course I think intonation issues are highly overrated and of little signifigance anyway. I appreciate the raw and visceral tone the alto sings with the manly reed. When I want a feminine sound I play the flute or clarinet........or put on an alto reed.

[paulwl]

Back around 1936, when Dick Stabile was writing the Sax Advice column in Metronome, someone wrote in asking if C melody reeds would work on alto. Dick said he didn't see any reason why not. (He played both.)

Just try getting C reeds today, but maybe if tenors were cut down a little, they'd work. I suspect from using tenor reeds on Cs that a lot of vibration goes out the long butt end, and is wasted for resonance purposes.

[sopsax]

To resolve this issue once and for all, I played long and furious today on three alto mouthpieces (Jody Jazz 8, Jody Jazz ESP 8*, Meyer 7M), two ligs (Rovner Dark, Vandoren Optimum), and a raft of reeds both alto and tenor (Fibracell, Charpen, Rico, Daniel's, Java) in dang near every possible permutation. And the winner is... tenor reeds.

OK, so high E and F sound kinda bleatish. But everything below that just purrrrrrs like a mighty tiger. I'm gone for good, people. The devil has my soul. Alto reeds are a conspiracy to make alto players sound wimpy.

But hey, that's just me. Your results may vary.

Thomas: I, like you, have played the flute. Maybe that's why I dig the volcanic rumblings of the sax. And yeah, I'm eager to try out the new Selmer Soloist alto pieces. Selmers (old and new) have always brought me luck.

paulwl: You really think the butt end of the tenor reed vibrates? I'd imagine it's too far from the action to make any difference -- but what do I know. I'd be willing to experiment with cutting, say, 3/8 inch off the butt end to see whether high note response improved. Any suggestions on how to cut a reed cleanly without making hash of the fibers?

[MojoBari]

One other thing you have to be aware of is if the reed overhangs off the sides of the rails. If so, and you blow real loud, you get a lot of chaffing on your bottom lip and it can blister and/or bleed. Many mouthpieces are wide enough to use wide reeds. If not, you can sand the reeds thinner. f they get too soft for you, trim them up or start with a stiffer reed.

[OLDAIR]

You might try bass clarinet reeds on your alto. The theory being that some people recommend these reeds as replacements for the nearly unobtainable C-Melody reeds. I used them on an old C-melody for a while but when I got rid of the vintage mouthpiece and went with a tenor mouthpiece, I eschewed the bass clarinet reeds as well

[Jazzophone]

Has anyone tried bari reeds on tenor? I've been wondering what the effect of that would be. I'm going to try in a few hours, but just wondering if anyone had experience with that :D

[MojoBari]

I think that combo is more common than the tenor on alto combo. RPC even makes a .150" tip tenor that is intended to take bari reeds.

[Jazzophone]

wow, that's cool. I tried out the bari reeds on tenor -- I had a Yamaha 4C stock mpc from my 52 and a Rico Royal 3.5 bari reed -- and if you get used to the slight overhang of the reed on the sides of the mouthpiece it's pretty great. pretty dark sound. :P I'll be doing that more often.

[dingfelder]

a bari mouthpiece does very cool things on a tuba... sorta sounds like a plane taking off...

[sopsax]

Following OLDAIR's advice, I tried bass clarinet reeds (Vandoren and RR) on my Jody Jazz 8 alto mouthpiece. Compared to using a tenor reed, the high notes rang out clearer and the low notes were less thunderous -- as you'd expect. But the amazing part was the cool glissando I could produce between any two notes. It was like taking the frets off a guitar. I could glide all over the range, sounding much more, well, clarinet-like.

All these years I thought the clarinet sounded like that because of the tone rings and the cylindrical bore. Who knew it was the reed?

[Jazzophone]

dingfelder: no kidding! played a tenor mouthpiece on tuba in jazz band a few weeks ago (we're integrating tuba into some of the charts, because it sounds fabulous) and it sounds pretty cool, if you can withstand the gargantuan vibrations. maybe a new trend? new-age tuba jazz? 8)

[Cameron Wigmore]

Man, I guess some of my postie-wosties hurted someones feelly-weelings. It seems that if one can't take a joke, one can just censor the crap out of whoever they decide to. I posted here and now it's gone. Why? You tell me. No biggie. I'll stay here as long as there are some cats that can just chill and hang.

[Eulipion2]

Yay for censorship! Maybe they'll start making games like Yossarian in Catch-22, like "Death to all Modifiers," or censoring everything but the words "a", "an", and "the". :wink:

[Roger Aldridge]

Sopsax,

Have you ever played a Conn "Chu" alto? Some guys on the Forum describe how tenor-like one can be in terms of it's full and powerful sound. Given what you're looking for on alto, this might be something to try if you have the opportunity.

[Brice B.]

I've used tenor reeds for a long while on alto. My favorite setup is a Rico Royal #4 on a Runyon Custom#7. I swear nothing sounds better on that mouthpiece. The over hang is bairly noticible, and it allows me to use a rovner lig too. I really recommend trying it before criticizing it. The intonation actually got better for me, and Altissimo is easier.

One main reason I think it works for me is because I'm a low voicer. I voice around an E or Eb, and the tenor reed just reacts better to this. Try it!

[sopsax]

Roger Aldridge: I've never had occasion to try the fabled Chu, but you've given me another reason to seek one out.

Brice B.: A Rovner Dark on my JodyJazz snuggles up to tenor reeds just fine. When I use a Vandoren Optimum lig on a Meyer, the sides of the tenor reed bump up against the lig's wrap-around metal frame. Is this inhibiting reed vibrations? And if so, is that a bad thing?

Has anybody tried tenor reeds on an alto piece with a Francois Louis ligature? And -- one more time -- has anybody besides me and OLDAIR tried bass clarinet reeds on alto?

if the reed overhangs off the sides of the rails... and you blow real loud, you get a lot of chaffing on your bottom lip and it can blister and/or bleed. Many mouthpieces are wide enough to use wide reeds. If not, you can sand the reeds thinner. - MojoBari
MojoBari: You mean Blood On The Reed ain't normal? I always figured it's inevitable in the third set -- divine retribution for taking too many solos! Yes, I've tried sanding tenor reeds down sideways & wasn't happy with the resulting chirps and reduced response. Might be interesting to just sand down the butt end and leave the playing end alone -- test paulwl's theory about butt-end vibrations contributing little to the resonance.

Thanks, cats, for contributing to this thread. I'm learning a lot.

[Anonymous]

I don't play alto any more, but when I did, I used a Berg HR tenor mouthpiece because a) it sounded great in the normal range of the horn and b) it made doubling a piece of cake!

[sopsax]

Wow, Berg Larceny, that is a whole other thing I haven't tried -- tenor reed AND tenor mouthpiece on alto! Could you go into more detail about tonal characteristics, range and intonation isues, any downside?

Has anybody else tried this?

[Morry]

The butt end of the reed should NOT vibrate. If it is, then it's keeping the tip end from doing so. Ever heard a harmonica where the metal reed inside (riveted at one end) comes loose? When that happens, vibrations at the other end are muffled. I think that's why a Rovner sounds "dark". It's really not dark, it's just losing some ability to vibrate because the fabric lig doesn't hold the butt end as firmly.

[Anonymous]

Well, this was during Cannonball Adderley's "commercial" phase.. early sixties and I was, with some success, emulating his tone, 'tho not his technique. Try the tenor mouthpiece you're using now on alto... give it a while, 'cause it'll probably seem weird at first and the upper range will seem difficult, but you'll likely get it down! You'll need to wrap some paper or cork around the neck to get the larger mouthpiece to tune properly!

[Cliff]

Did you ever listen to Gene Quill? He was a giant jazz alto player(50's)You can hear him on The PHIL @QUILL album.(Phil Woods, Gene Quill). Anyway, I worked with Gene on Claude Thornhills band and he always used tenor reeds. He played a Conn alto (the one with the tunable neck)I don't know what mouthpiece he was using. He used to keep all the tenor player's rejects. If it works, why not?

[ghettosax]

I don't if this true but maybe some else can confirm this. I heard that Dexter Gordon used bari sax reeds.

[kingman]

I have been playing for nearly 20 years and have come to one conclusion....

If somone says there is only one way to do something they know very little about anything.

I have played alto reeds on soprano for a while. Being a tenor player and very comfortable with my emboucher I had a hard time with soprano. So I put an alto reed on it and darn if it didn't open up my sound and make my intonation BETTER.

I left it at that for a while but recently thought, why not on alto. I have been searching for a good allbeit ballsy sound on alto like I can get on tenor.

Yesterday I put a tenor reed on alto and SHABANG!, I found what I had been looking for over the past few years.

I work as a full time tech and the only thing I have to say about a tenor mouthpiece on alto is the tuning will be a problem. The mouthpiece is really part of the horn and adding too much length or chamber will make playing in tune very difficult.


KEEP TRYING NEW THINGS AND PASS THEM ALONG. WE ALL NEED NEW IDEAS.

[dolphyo]

back in the 80,s i was buying and hangin out at sam ash.mostly reeds,et... this middle aged dude from jersey comes in lookin to buy a tenor.he brings his alto and tenor and proceeds to slap on alto reeds on his tenor meyer mpc and blew everyones minds. man there was about six of us standing there with our jaws on the floor! the dude played fantastically like a demon with no wimpy sounds? he says he only listens to two artists in the last 25 years? oscar peterson for lines and stan getz for sound. damn? he sounded great except thin palm notes?we all tryed to convince the old dude to switch to tenor reeds and dude says "what for"? man,we laughed !#*& he challenged all of us to a cutting session right there,"we laughed"?then playing standards we didn,t know he proceeded to carve our *** one by one?played inside ,outside,sideways,all in this light getz sound.needless to say the dude was friendly, bought a soprano and slapped us five and walked out?man, we stopped laughing?

[meio desligado]

very nice to hear that I'm not alone!
I use a otto link STM 9 for my alto, with tenor vandoren blue box 2,5/3 reeds.
the sound is amazing for me, the lower and middle register is perfect, very thick. I had some problem with the higher tones, but I solved it controlling my embochure and diaphragm. Sometimes I come back to the alto reeds, but I always prefere the tenor ones.
I tried the bari-reeds for my tenor, it works, but the sound is not as good as the tenor ones.
Now I think I'll try the C-tenor reeds, and the clarinet ones.. just to hear.

[heikki]

I've always been happy with tenor reeds on alto. They kick butt in the low register with deep, macho tones.

After reading this discussion, I was more than excited to try tenor reeds on my alto. I sure expected to hear some roughness on the sound over the entire range of the instruments. I also thought there would be somewhat substantial addition of boldness on the upper register.

Well, none of that turned out to be true. Yep, there was some roughness on the sound, but nothing that I would describe as a tenor or close-to-tenor sound.

My wife is a tenor player, so a variety of tenor reeds was available, as well it was easy to compare. I also tried it with different mouthpieces I had around. The result varied both in terms of the sound change and ease of playing. Regardless of the mouthpiece, I was able to use much harder reeds than what I would find comfortable to use normally. Some, but not much, additional roughness on the sound resulted with all setups. however, I would call that just a minor change. Surprisingly to me, the effect of tenor reeds seemed to diminish the higher notes I played. Maybe I was simply expecting too much.

Maybe a more advanced player can get more out of this trick. Likewise, maybe a more experienced listener can distinguish the tonal differences more clearly. For an amateur playing and or listening, not a big deal.

I can see my experience is not quite the same other people have testified here. Did I possibly something wrong? Should I have changed my embouchure or blowing technique significantly or why is this?

[cann0nba11]

A top call player in Dallas uses Alto reeds on a soprano mouthpiece and sounds killer. Maybe I need to try it...

[Joeybsmooth1]

I am about the bust I want to try this so bad. I use a Guy Hawking tip 5 java 3. Anyone have a clue what i reed should use. And want to try a Bari.

And what about a Bass C. on a Tenor .

Also can a Bari mpc fit on my tenor?

[Joeybsmooth1]

Just tried a bari on tenor , it sounds ok. I am use Rico O. So i will try a better class of reed before I judge.

[themacintrasher]

a bari mouthpiece does very cool things on a tuba... sorta sounds like a plane taking off...
I tried my tenor piece on a tromebone.....sounded like a lawnmower.

[Joeybsmooth1]

cool beans

[Jazz Is All]

A top call player in Dallas uses Alto reeds on a soprano mouthpiece and sounds killer. Maybe I need to try it...

Hope this thread isn't too dead. Do you have to cut them down to fit the Soprano mpc, or can you just play them as they are and let the butt end stick out farther? What about the width? Won't the alto reed overhang the rails? I play alto and have a soprano coming and can't get out to get reeds for it because I am housebound with a back problem. I can play sitting down though and thought of trying an alto reed on the old vintage mpc that is coming with the sax. Not sure how it will work out though. Any ideas would be appreciated. thanks:)

[Subbie]

What about Eb Alto Clarinet reeds on soprano? They seem to be thinner than alto reeds, almost the same size, though. I'd try em out, but my sop is broken.

[saxpiece]

I just tried a Tenor reed from my xaphoon clone (chinese tenor reed, maybe a 2 or 2.5) on my Jupiter Alto with a Yamaha 4c Alto mouthpiece. The altissimo sounded great and was pretty easy and the rest of the range had a tenor like sound to it. The normal range pitch was perhaps a bit harder to control. Very interesting.

[legato]

How about bass reed on baritone?

[saxpiece]

I've done a bit more experimenting with other Alto mouthpieces and my Tenor reed and I have to say it sounds great. It took a while to get used to controlling the pitch of the notes. The altissimo range sounds pretty good. In general it sounds more like a higher range Tenor and not like a regular Alto sound. Great for 50s 60s style Rock and Roll and other things. I wouldn't use the Alto mouthpiece/Tenor reed combo all the time but for some songs it would be the best choice unless you had a Tenor sax.

[Souledout]

By the way:

I am playing 2 1/2 Vandoren Classic Reeds (Tenor) on an Otto Link Florida 8* with an enlarged baffle....sounds fat and aggressive, high register pops out, intonation is almost no problem, though it suffered a bit.

alto reeds sound thin in the lower registers...and i love those Bs and Bbs to sound huge...

[SuperAction80]

Some players I've met are horrified by this secret vice. "You play WHAT on WHAT?!"


You can kindly tell those people that Jeff Coffin uses tenor reeds for his alto. If they are wondering if he is any good, show them this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lUMGSr3b67g

[AmazingPhrasing]

You can kindly tell those people that Jeff Coffin uses tenor reeds for his alto. If they are wondering if he is any good, show them this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lUMGSr3b67g

Exactly! JC is one of my favorite players! I believe George Shelby also plays a tenor reed on alto.

Well, I've been thinking about this stuff, and decided to put an alto reed on my soprano today. I'm also going to try to get a tenor reed for alto. :D 8-)

[SuperAction80]

Well, I've been thinking about this stuff, and decided to put an alto reed on my soprano today. I'm also going to try to get a tenor reed for alto. :D 8-)

You may also want to try a bass clarinet reed on the alto and tenor. (Guilty secret) I have used Bass Clarinet reeds on both my alto and tenor in order to save money on reeds. Actually, I liked how they fit on both horns, and plan on going back to them. The Rico Royal BC reeds seem to be more consistent than the alto and tenor varieties as well.

[AmazingPhrasing]

You may also want to try a bass clarinet reed on the alto and tenor. (Guilty secret) I have used Bass Clarinet reeds on both my alto and tenor in order to save money on reeds. Actually, I liked how they fit on both horns, and plan on going back to them. The Rico Royal BC reeds seem to be more consistent than the alto and tenor varieties as well.

I will totally check this out!

Gosh, I'm going to be busy getting a bunch of reeds at marching band today! :)

[AmazingPhrasing]

So I used an alto reed on soprano for a while. and I really didn't care for it...at all. I'm still going to try using different reeds to see if it's any better. The sound was very thin and jumped octaves. I used a brand new Java 3 1/2. And my ligature was too small.

[themacintrasher]

James Moody and Plas Johnson both used bari reeds on tenor.

[SuperAction80]

So I used an alto reed on soprano for a while. and I really didn't care for it...at all.

:yikes!: Yeah no wonder. An alto reed would hang over the rails of the soprano mouthpiece. FWIW, in a pinch, I have used clarinet and soprano reeds interchangeably without any ill effect. On the other hand, there really wasn't much of an added benefit either.

[nateberly]

I always thought it was more popular to use different mouthpieces on different sized horns, not just reeds. Then you wouldn't have to worry about correct fit on the mouthpiece, but still would maybe have to compensate for intonation.

[nateberly]

You can kindly tell those people that Jeff Coffin uses tenor reeds for his alto. If they are wondering if he is any good, show them this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lUMGSr3b67g

Anyone try and count this? Not for the faint of heart.
One of the bast sax players AND the best living electric bassist in one band!

[SuperAction80]

Anyone try and count this? Not for the faint of heart.
One of the bast sax players AND the best living electric bassist in one band!

The song is written in 8 1/2 or 17/4. Easiest way I've found to count it is 1,2,3,4 2,2,3,4 3,2,3,4 4,2,3,4,5 and repeat.

And yes, these guys are twisted! It's great.:twisted:

[clhuff]

I've dabbled, but I think you give up more than you gain by using the "wrong" size reed. For a fat tenor-like sound on alto, I find open high baffle pieces with alto reeds will get you there. Try a Vandoren Jumbo Java in a A55 (or larger).

Amen to that, along with a Vandy Java 3.5 or 4 reeds. Soft reeds <> resonant, booming low register.