Frustrated to the gills!

[Old Charlie]

I have almost had it with my teacher. :banghead:

History: A month ago the teacher assigned me four (4) new concepts in one week - to a student (me) who only had 6 weeks playing the sax. I had to take a week off from my lesson because I just couldn't get up to using tempo by the end of the first week.

What I had in front of me was 6/8 time advanced studies (with no basics), the fingerings for C3 through high F, playing softly, and the key of Eb - all in one session.

So when I went back last week I talked with him about how I was having trouble & frustrated because of the difficulty of the tempo (6/8) without knowing my scales - he hadn't assigned scales - and didn't believe in practicing them. He said they weren't necessary for playing the tempo. The sad part is he thinks I (ME!) am the one who is different.

So, he said he would work with me. Then he assigned four basic studies in 6/8 tempo and four Major scales, C, F, Bb and Eb. Well, I knew C, F, and Bb so that wasn't bad and the basic 6/8 were easier than I had been given the week before.

But! BIG BUT! But this week, he assigns me one easy practice in C, then gives me a study in E (Rubank Elementart Lesson 40), bypassing all the Major Key scales of G, D, and A, of which I only know G. I had to stop him on that one, but he still assigned me the scale of E. So I have seven, count 'em, 7 new scales to learn and be up to speed on in one week (Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, D, A, and E). :violent1:'

Oh, plus sixteenth notes were in the study - which we haven't covered the basics of yet. That was nine lessons before which he skipped.

I am frustrated with a capital D! :angry4: I'm not quitting. Not by a long shot. I love playing too much to stop over this. But I AM getting an instructor who know what he/she is doing.

Does anybody need a lesson time of 11:30 am Saturdays in Dublin, CA? Because my teacher (I can't even call him an instructor) is going to have an opening at that time where I USED to take my lesson.



Okay. I feel much better. I still have two weeks, but I AM looking for a new instructor. I am going back, fully prepared or not, but only because I can't get a refund for the two weeks - period

Thanks for letting me vent.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Although a foundtion of practice of scales may be a purist and formal ideal , it is not necessary to practice a scale to master a piece. It is necessary only to practice the note combinations actually existing in that piece.

[Mike Cesati]

Sometimes if a teacher overloads you just do what you can do. If you come back with only 3 of the scales down good then you are still learning.

How old is your teacher? He doesn't sound that experienced.He may be trying to break you .

Just do what you can do, if you try to cram too much information in your brain then you won't get any of it.It will be better to get one or two of the concepts correct before moving on.

Tell him that.

[fballatore]

Chuck -

Interesting...

We seem to have polar opposites as teachers.

Frank

[Old Charlie]

How old is your teacher? He doesn't sound that experienced. He may be trying to break you.
Eighty (80) last month.

Just do what you can do, if you try to cram too much information in your brain then you won't get any of it.It will be better to get one or two of the concepts correct before moving on.

Tell him that.
I did. You see where that got me. Actually, Saturday I am going in as prepared as I can and do what I can. Whatever he assigns me, I'll continue with the scales until I get proficient and whatever he assigns as well. The following week, I'm telling him I am no longer going to be working with him.

Unless somebeody convinces me why I should stay with this particular one, that is.

Thanks, Frank,

I know you've had problems too. Are you talking with your's? Or is it working out better with Keith?

[gary]

Chuck, what's missing for me in your posts is your teacher's responses to you when you do not have everything in your lesson totally up to speed. Is he berating you?

I wonder if you're not one of those people who take on a strong feeling of responsibility even if the pressure is really not coming from outside of you. Is it perhaps you, not your teacher, who is expecting perfection?

[Old Charlie]

gary,

AS I said in my initial post, So when I went back last week I talked with him about how I was having trouble & frustrated because of the difficulty of the tempo (6/8) without knowing my scales - he hadn't assigned scales - and didn't believe in practicing them. He said they weren't necessary for playing the tempo. The sad part is he thinks I (ME!) am the one who is different.

So, he said he would work with me. Then he assigned four basic studies in 6/8 tempo and four Major scales, C, F, Bb and Eb. Well, I knew C, F, and Bb so that wasn't bad and the basic 6/8 were easier than I had been given the week before.
Last Saturday, after assigning me four major keys to learn already, when I mentioned to him that he was assigning me the study in E with sixteenth notes, without covering the major keys that lead up to that, he assigned me the Major key of E on top of that. I said that was a lot and he could quit giving me more, but he kept looking for more to assign me. I finally stopped him and said that was a LOT to learn in one week, counting off the seven major key scales, the easy study and the study in E. Only then did he mention that I didn't have to learn the study in E. (If I hadn't mentioned it, he would have let me go on with it.) The reason he was looking for more to assign me was that I still had five more minutes of lesson time left!!!!!!!! NO OTHER REASON GIVEN! I told him it was okay to end early. He laughed.

[gary]

But Chuck, my friend. There is no order to learn scales in. I agree that for beginners it's easier to keep track of one sharp than six, but there are some fingering combinations that are actually easier on keys with more sharps or flats than others with less. Just because the scales have progressively more sharps or flats does not mean, in and of itself, that they must be learned (or taught) in that order.

From the information you're giving, or at least from what I understand it to mean, it seems to me that you're being a bit impatient and actually, at least in the case of the key of E, thinking you know more about how to teach than your teacher.

Just the fact that you're posting a quote of your previous post makes me think you're being a bit defensive. My English is fairly OK by the way, I really only need to read it once.

Your teacher can assign you all his little heart desires. That doesn't mean you have to do it. I teach twice a week in a school and five days a week at home. I assign what I think the student needs to work on but if s/he comes back a week later and says "I only had time to work these two pages up" I say, OK let's hear what you can do.

Until your teacher has chewed you out and told you you're wasting your money and his time, I'm not sure you're leting him, or yourself, down. So I am still wondering if you're just not being a bit impatient and perfectionist with yourself.

By the was, it's 02:15 here so if this post seems a bit direct my apologies. It's meant to be friendly and helpful. Cheers! Gary

[groovesax]

Hey Charlie,

Unfortunately, frustration is part of the exercise. I'm sure your all too familiar with that. And, while many people here have steered you to the proper advice of finding an instructor, just about every teacher (at least the ones that I can recall) is not going to match up perfectly at all times with the students learning experience. Whether it is giving you too much or too little or being too picky or not picky enough. He or she isn't there every minute when your practicing or maybe due to extraneous circumstances can't practice. The solution, in my opinion, is that you have to set and monitor the goals for yourself. Remember, the reason you have been directed towards a teacher is that so you won't develop bad habits. But, there is nothing wrong with going off course, from time to time, from the lesson plan. Whether it's ahead of the teachers plan or behind the teachers plan. If you feel like you really need to practice that D scale or A scale or whatever so it will sink in, by all means do it. Use the teacher as a guide and a resource, but if that guide is getting too far away from you, you just have to tell him one way or another to come back to where YOU are. You are the one paying to learn this infernal thing and YOU are the one who has the best sense of what gives you the most difficulty. That's not to say that you go off inventing your own lesson plan. Let the teacher do that. But add or subtract from it somewhat. Customize it to suit you. Hope that is helpful.

[Old Charlie]

Your teacher can assign you all his little heart desires. That doesn't mean you have to do it. I teach twice a week in a school and five days a week at home. I assign what I think the student needs to work on but if s/he comes back a week later and says "I only had time to work these two pages up" I say, OK let's hear what you can do.

Until your teacher has chewed you out and told you you're wasting your money and his time, I'm not sure you're letting him, or yourself, down. So I am still wondering if you're just not being a bit impatient and perfectionist with yourself.
Thanks Gary,

I appreciate your comment about not having to do the whole assignment. At this point I am pretty sure I won't be able to finish it all this week. I intend on learning only what I can do reasonably well. I think I say that at this point, I have calmed down some and can think about it more clearly based on everybody's input (with more outside input coming). looking at it from that standpoint, I think it is in my best interest to find another instructor who will work with me and is more sensitive to my needs and capabilities.

As an aside, but still pertinent. I had this exact same teaching pattern when I was in junior high school from another private teacher. It got to the point that, because I couldn't keep up with the school band the school teacher asked me to drop out. After that I lost interest really fast and soon quit taking private lessons and playing. Now I know better and I'm not going to let that happen. The fact that this teacher doesn't believe in teaching scales, and I need them to get to the point I can keep up with the music, I'm moviin' on.

groovesax,
Thanks. I appreciate your sensitivity.

By the way, I also appreciate all the feedback. Maybe this discussion can help another beginner/newcomer somewhere down the road. So if you have more input, keep it coming.

[Face Ache Mike]

Charlie,

I had a similar experience with my first tutor. I had explained over the `phone when I booked the first (and only, as it transpires) lesson that I was a blank sheet when it comes to music theory and I had never learned to play an instrument before. That didnt seem to matter to him, he assumed way too much and asked me to do things I had never even heard of. Even common sense things conflicted with my own ideas (eg he said never to bother cleaning your sax after a session - "just spit in it and put it away"!). I was committed to sitting through the first lesson, at least as a matter of courtesy, but I knew very quickly that I wouldnt be continuing with him. The final straw came when, toward the end of the 30 min "lesson" he told me to learn the entire song "Strangers in the Night" in time for next week. That was way too advanced for me at that time and furthermore if I wanted to just "go away and learn stuff" I felt I didnt need to be wasting my time with his so called "tuition".

The next day I set out to find another tutor. The outcome is, I found an excellent one literally just around the corner from where I live, he charges a small fraction of the other, we get along great, he`s very encouraging, and I think most importantly I can`t wait for the next lesson as I`m progressing so well.

Someone said "If it ain't fun, it ain't worth playin'!" ;) Its your hobby and you are the customer. If you don`t like what youre getting and you dont expect a change then I suggest you look elsewhere. Out of courtesy I would let the tutor know why you are moving on but move on I would.

Good luck in finding a new tutor :)

[mayho]

Old Charlie, I feel your pain. I have been at this for 3 1/2 years, and I have had lessons with four teachers in that time. I was with the first teacher 3 months. In that time I was 3/4 of the way thru the Rubanks Volume 1. It seemed to me every week she would turn the page no matter how poorly I performed. I quickly reasoned that her goal was to get me to walk out of the practice room and purchase product from the music store. I developed the habit of making my purchases elsewhere. The price of the lessons were $65 a month.

One day I'm at a large retail music store and I run into a former employee of the smaller store. I voice my frustration about the instruction I was receiving and he in large part confirmed my theory. He then referred me to a friend of his that could give me lessons. I was charged $10 an hour, but this guy would often extend the time just because he loved playing. He took me back to almost the beginning of the Rubank's book and taught me a lot of was was skipped over. If it took me two weeks to learn a lesson we stayed there until I got it right. I got better, and I can still hear him saying, " put more air through the horn". He was a college student and I was 40 years old at the time, we spent a lot of time talking about life. 9/11 happened and he joined the army. I admired him for that. I spent about ten months with him.

Some time passed where I had no lessons, but I still practiced. I wasn't progressing as much as I hoped, so I signed up for more lessons at a different music store. This guy went to school ABC, toured with XYZ, name dropped constantly, and charged me $90 dollars a month. I was impressed by his ability to play. After about three months he went on tour with superstar EFG, and wanted to pass me off to someone else until he came back off the road. I didn't think I was learning anything more from him than any of my other teachers, so I politely declined his offer.

A month later I go to a different music school, I make a commitment to myself that whoever I sign up with I'm going to stick it out for 1 year.
I get with this guy who has also been to school ABC, but didn't take the course on pompous arrogance! $65 a month, Its been 14 months and he has helped me a lot. My tone is much better, my fingers stay on the keys, my intonation is better, breath support is better. But I'm thinking of getting another teacher. (I'm sure you are all thinking, Please get to the point!)

All of these people are really nice people, good to great players IMHO, but not good teachers. I realize all you have to know to give lessons is a little more than the person in the other chair. I can give lessons to many people out there. I realize I no longer want to take lessons, I want to learn to play Sax. I need a sax teacher. A music teacher. Someone with a plan. I'm paying you, don't ask me what I want to work on. Tell me where I weak and work with me until I improve. Is it unreasonable of me to have a teacher that has expectations of me beyond showing up and paying? This is how I'm going to teach you your scales, this is how I'm going to teach you to improvise etc. I want someone who will challenge me not to waste their time either. Most improtantly I want results, If I can prcatice 10 hours a week where can you take me?

Having said all of that, I'm having the time of my life. Thanks for the air time. I've got a plane to catch, talk to you good people next week.

[Old Charlie]

Update:

I fired my teacher three weeks ago. The day I told him, he had me play as much as I could get through, then, even after I told him I would not be back, started assigning me more work for the next week as if I was coming back. As I said, theis guy was just giving me lessons to be giving me lessons with no regard for how well I played it.

So now I'm having the time of my life. I have set a practice schedule according to what saxlessons.com recommends and have been workin hard on my scales. This has increased my playing speed greatly and my fingers know the fingerings much better than before. I will not make the mistake of not practicing scales again. Despite what Gordon said above, ...it is not necessary to practice a scale to master a piece. It is necessary only to practice the note combinations actually existing in that piece. I believe it is necessary for me to know the scales well enough to be able to play in that key before I can play the piece with any competency.

The thing that makes the way I am doing this fun is picking a song each session and working to learn it well enough to be able to play along to a CD which was my goal in learning. Then I move on to another song I like however long or short it takes to learn it.

Would I have accomplished this had I stuck it out? I think not. His teaching was the pattern of learning I had as a Junior High student (that's Middle School for you younguns). I will be practicing on my own through the summer and I already have someone in mind for when I do look for an instructor. I have to say this has been a struggle, but if, by posting this, I have helped one person who is struggling with the same issues, it is worth it.

[Bill Mecca]

OC,One of my instructors once told me there are many lessons in each song. Scales, chords, progressions, expressive techniques, etc etc etc.

If you are having fun, and learning, what else can be said... go for it!

Keep Honkin!