Are higher number Mk VI's that bad?

[Saxydude]

Hi everyone. I'm in the search for another tenor. I've had a recent affair with a YTS-875 (will be for sale soon) and I've realized that I'm a vintage guy. My question is: are the higher number VI's as bad as everyone makes them out to be? I mean numbers from 190xxx all the way through 210xxx. I've heard that a 6 is a 6, and even the bad ones aren't that bad. I just want to know if the hype is true about the higher number 6's. Is there a way this got started, or what is the explanation? Thanks.[/u]

[BigDaddyJ]

You've probably read it already, but ya gotta try the Mark VI before buying. Years ago when I was into Selmers, I tried about 20 VI's in a row. The one I picked......an early 70's relaquered Mark VI. One of the best Mark VI's I've ever blown on.

[Saxydude]

BigDaddyJ- Yes, I was planning on trying all of them before I bought (learned that lesson the hard way.) I just wanted to know what to expect, or even if it was worth my while. Your post gave me hope that I might find a good one for a good price. Thanks.

[Dave Dolson]

There is another thread elsewhere that discusses high vs. low MKVIs. The concensus was that it depends . . . DAVE

[Hurling Frootmig]

You might want to try the new Yamaha 82Z when you try the VI's. The key is to blow as many of them at a time as you can and see if one speaks to you.

[jd]

i posted this under a different thread but it relates to your question
have played a bunch of 6s. own 5 of them 3 tenr 2 alto.i have an original 103*** tenor that i love and thought nothing could beat it for years . until i tried my present love ( a 214***) relaq tenor ! thats my main axe and i have an original 103*** and 155*** thats not seeing much action these days.i wouldnt sell any of them but the 214*** is the best one ?? go figure??it is the horn not the serial # TRUE

i just bought a 1972 mark 6 alto from ireedman because i liked the tenor so much. i havnt received it yet. he just sent it out.if it plays as good ill be very happy .

[singlereed]

I have a 155... tenor that is a killer so I bought an alto from about the same time. It was in great condition and played OK, but only 'OK' and not nearly as good as my Serie III; as it just had a full overhaul I figured it wouldn't ever be a great horn so I sold it on. It won't stop me from seeking out a great VI alto, but I doubt it will be a really old one as I like miy horns pristine and can't afford the high prices of the really old ones. Still, as my 1968 tenor proves, they were making some great ones then.

[jd]

i have a 155*** tenor too .that ive had for 27 years. its a great horn. been through plenty of gigs with me. im retiring it for a while in favor of my 214 *** relaq.

[Marcel]

You have good and no so good in all ranges of serial number. In the more or less 12 M6 tenor I blowed, the best was a 1972 vintage, esthetically awful, but that had a great fat sound because it lost a lot of its lacquer naturally during the years. A great great 6 and not a five digits one, that I sold recently.

[Cameron Wigmore]

I haven't had the opportunity to blow many early VI's. All I know is that the one I have - 198xxx - is a great blowing horn. Years ago I had a Yamaha and I've tried many brands since, but my VI is soooooo nice. Just as there's a myth about the MK VI being the hands down best horn, there's also a myth about early horns being better of later serial #'s. You gotta play 'em.

[ago_ego]

Hi Saxidude,
I bought recently the best mark VI i've ever played on. And guess what:
a 225xxx! And I had a few....
I picked it out of 6 other's and my own 'reference' (205xxx). There was also a 131xxx: very playable but a little sharp (!).
IMO the best sounding VI's are those which are played a lot on. Maybe thats why the 5digit horns sound on the average better.
There is another tendency in my experience: the really late mark VI's (after 215xxx) seem to be a little better on the average than overall (after 150xxx).
I've heard another theory from a reputable experienced VI lover that around 200xxx is great (198xxx-205xxx).
Play them! (and don't forget the Top Hat&Cane......!).

[jd]

i just got a 199*** alto in a few weeks ago. it flat out beats my 89*** mark 6. believe it

[danm]

Like JD above I play a MK VI 214XXX tenor and of all the VIs I have tried this one really sings. I think your best bet is to pay no attention to the serial number and just play it for yourself. I have had many new and vintage horns and for me the MK VI is the most versatile and easiest to play, not to mention the tone. Too bad they don't make them anymore!

[Lenny]

I wonder to what extent all these testaments to superior late Mark VI's are the exception or the general rule. I think there is something to the common myth about 5 digits
It's true that every horn is unique and so is every player so it makes no sense to trust generalizations - but my experience is that in general the early VI's (and this prob goes for the SBA's and maybe even BA's as well) just had some kind of magic. They seem very resonant especially in the bottom. Maybe the old bull about the WWII metal or something.
I had a 179xxx horn that was good compared to every other modern horn I played it against ( I just sold it to someone who also compared to a couple dozen horns). But for my taste (straight ahead 50- 60's jazz & esp ballads) it was nowhere near the fullness of the few 5 digits I had tried from friends. (It might be very different if I was looking for a brighter more modern style.)
So I started looking for a good & reasonable priced 5 digit. I found a few dogs (both re-lacquers and actually they were both very good horns just not phenomenal) and finally bought a 67xxx blind from Europe. Its a great horn, though it did take some getting used to for me and it wasn't necc. love at first sight. (Its silver which might not be my first choice.)
I did play some very good later VI's though none that matched the early ones (except maybe one aprox 225xxx).
I also found that often with the later ones if I found a good one & put its neck on mine it sounded the same! The best later one had a neck from 103xxx on it.

[SteveS]

People I have enormous respect for have declared what serial number ranges are best, and why. BUT.... I will never buy into the serial number snobbery thing.

Once tried a 1955 Mark VI alto. Put that horn on eBay and someone will buy it sight unseen (and unplayed, of course) for $5,000+. But it does not even BEGIN to compare with my 186,xxx (1971) relacquered VI. The '55 had a sweet enough sound, but no guts at all. Sorry.

Played a friend's 200,xxx tenor -- outstanding horn.

There may be ranges with a higher PERCENTAGE of excellent horns than other ranges, but there are excellent, average, and so-so VI's from every year they made the VI. The notion that any 180,000+ horn is garbage and that any 5-digit horn is good as gold is pure fiction.

[pbsax]

from what ive played, 130's and lower have a BIG LUSH sound that i love. Anything above 130XXX did not speak well for me. Try as many as you can, they are all so totally different, depending on the lacquer, SN, usage, service done.. etc.

[OnyxSax]

When the last Mark VI came off the lines nearly 30 years ago, serial numbers take a back seat to how well the horn was maintained. My VI is a 226,xxx and it's great. I've always meticuloulsly maintained the horn. I've had others try the horn, even had it up against some earlier vintage VIs and it walked away the winner.

[SteveS]

OnyxSax/David speaks the truth! I played that one myself and it's outstanding.

David, you'll have to try my "new" 1937 Balanced Action tenor some time. Not a "loud" horn, but not wimpy either - especially up top... and what a sweeeeet tone!

SteveS

[les]

Fact: If one sounds like hell on a #220,000 one will sound like hell on a #120,000 or an #80,000. So......
Get REAL good first, THEN look for that magic 5 digit wonder horn. It won't do a player any good till then anyway. Besides, the extra 2 or 3000 $$ can get lots of lessons with a good teacher. Skill on the saxophone cannot be bought. It can ONLY be EARNED.

[jd]

lesax. you are correct. i agree. btw i played last year on a selmer that you worked on. played great . this guy (from the boston area ) was guest at a wedding in cleveland i was doing and brought his mark 6 tenor to jam with us. he bragged about you and your work. i checked out your work and thought it was great. you customized it a little for him. his name was kevin auprave or something like that? big guy on the heavy side?maybe you remmember him? any ways, i agree .its the player !! but a choice horn helps a little.. but you have to have the skills .does anyone really believe they could do a blindfold test and recognize phil woods or brecker for example....etc playing on a high # or lower # . i dont think so.

[Saxydude]

jd- Hey, I'm in Sandusky (not too far from Cleveland) glad to see another Ohio guy on the board. Everyone- bought my first VI (s/n 101xxx) this Saturday from David Hoskins of Junkdude.com (GREAT place!). The horn is missing some lacquer but the sound is absolutely amazing. I played 2 notes on the horn when I was testing it, stopped, looked at Dave and said "wow." I then continued to play for another 20 minutes. There is just something about the horn that made it all come together for me that I wasn't getting with the modern horns. I never really believed much of the hype about the VI's, but now that I own one I can see that the descriptions are pretty accurate. I'm so thrilled. The horn is fantastic, and I'm certainly going to keep it for a long long while. Thanks for all the advice and thoughts. I have been re-converted to Selmers.....and I love it!

[jd]

good deal. congrats on the "new" mark 6 . i have a 103*** and its an awesome player too. you cant go wrong with a classic!! yes its good to see a fellow ohio guy on the board. im out at sandusky for a the yacht club gigs about 10 times a year. we do alot of gigs at the catawba island club and a few port clinton gigs. used to play at put in bay and jj muskies all the time with dave c and the sharptones a few years back . your in a fun area!! are you playing the clubs over there?

[JL]

Saxydude,
Congrats on your "new" VI. Sounds like you got a nice one. Yes there is a lot of hype surrounding these horns, but there is also a reason for it. I still remember the first note I blew on my 121xxx VI tenor (about 25 years ago) and it was an astonishing experience. To this day, I am very happy with the sonic characteristics of that horn. There's something there that I don't hear in other saxes. Now, I still really like some others, including my 'Crat and a Super 20 I tried recently. But the VI has a special quality......

[Saxydude]

jd- I'm still working on putting a quintet together. We're not quite ready for major gigs....I do play a lot of gigs with "Dana Dorsey and The Blue Notes" swing band. They're a fun group. We just played a gig in Indiana about a week ago. I'm hoping to get more into playing the clubs this summer.......especially with this new horn. I'm more amazed every time I play it!