Altissimo, Overtone & tongue position

[Angle Tears]

Many people said to get an accuracy, clean, full & big altissimo note (Start from G6), tongue position is very important even you don't move your tongue (no legato or attack).

Some of them said our tongue should be on right side when play an altissimo note. is it correct? What about the overtone (Low Bb fingering play a middle Bb), is it also important of our tongue position ?

Thanks. :(

[Aaron]

I believe the tongue position is very important, but I wouldn't really go so far as to say to the right or anything. I've heard a very good term used by clarinetists and that is poised.

[benivy]

For me , i feel that most important is ur air support and air velocity to play high notes. if lack of that , forgot about the tougue or wat.

[Tears June]

Not only air-steam volume & air velocity but the throat are also very important. Must not bite too hard, it's hard to control at start because it's a natural reaction for all beginner. When playing altissimo & overtone exercise, just thinking don't bite, don't bite, don't bite....

:cry:

[Cameron Wigmore]

I bulge my tongue up a bit when I hit the altissimo register. The notes come out way easier. Fool around with it.....

[bomber]

The tongue is like the thumb over the garden hose. If you squeeze your thumb, the water comes out faster and with more force. If you "squeeze" the air with your tongue high into your soft pallete, the air will move faster and cause the reed to pop into altssimo mode. Experiment on front F to practice pushing the air around and bending the note down. You can almost get it to scoop down an octave or so if you gain enough flexibility with the air stream. Some of us call this "voicing".

[Troy]

...Experiment on front F to practice pushing the air around and bending the note down. You can almost get it to scoop down an octave or so if you gain enough flexibility with the air stream...

Check out this site. It has a lot on the note bending concept that has helped me. http://daniel.mcb.tripod.com/danielmcbreartysaxophonist/id11.html

[David A.]

Can someone help me with note bending? I use Sinta's Voicings, and I have made it to the third mode, but the F trick just doesn't work for me. I try, and I try, and I never get the right results. If I raise my tongue, like I do to play altissimo, the note goes higher. If I raise it, and pull back into my throat like my teacher wants, the pitch drops, but only like 10-20 cents. If I drop my tongue, the pitch lowers, but right before I can drop it a half step, the tone ALWAYS breaks, and my teacher says that the pitch was only dropping in the first place because I was loosening my embouchore in order to drop my tongue. So, I don't know what to do. Help?

[max]

Add your throat to the equation. Do a really exaggerated "eewwww" sound and notice what happens to your throat. Try adding that to your pitch dropping exercise...

[MS]

I am familiar with Sinta's "voicings " book. Great book.
Regarding the front F trick, I have heard other players suggest front "E", and have found that just fingering a D3 may help to get you started. Just finger regualr D3 and bend that down and back up. Then go for the front E and the F.

Takes a while for some to develop the sense of what your tongue is doing since you (or your teacher can't see it). When you're driving, you might try whistling. Your tongue will change position (low to high) for pitch changes. Not the same as altissimo, but you can start a sensitization process to tell when your tongue moves. Something to do on boring trips. :D

[Kevin]

Do what Max says with the "ewwww" sound...or try whistling while dropping the pitch way down. That is the position and movement your tongue does to bend those palm keys down. Be sure not to move your jaw...it should be stationary. When you get the feeling how the tongue moves while whistling or saying "ewww" (and dropping the pitch), apply that same movement of the tongue to when you play those high notes.

[Jeff D]

If I drop my tongue, the pitch lowers, but right before I can drop it a half step, the tone ALWAYS breaks

Let me guess, when the F "breaks" it jumps back up and if you continue sustaining it it won't move a bit for anything. I have had many students run into this problem (as well as me personally). It means you are very close just going a bit too fast. There is a very narrow embochure/voicing window to home in on. The instant the F breaks, you have passed it.

Things that have worked with my students:
Focus on the corners of your mouth. Think of pushing the pitch down with that region of your face.

Don't worry about tonal distortion. The first few times you get it to work it will sound just plain nasty.

Watch "Star Wars" (episode IV with all the groovy 70's hair cuts). Pay attention to the sound made when Ben Kenobi shuts off the tractor beam. Duplicate this sound orally starting with an EEEE sound at first and change to an OOOO sound at the end. Notice what this does to your mouth (corners :wink: ). Notice the timbre of the tractor beam sound. If you can duplicate this your throat should be open sufficiently to not fight what you are doing with your mouth.

Often what causes the breaking F is a manipulation of pitch mostly with vertical jaw movement. Your jaw should not budge a bit and the grip on the reed/mpc should not loosen a bit. By loosening you are allowing the pitch to drop. Your intention is to force the pitch to drop. Don't give it any freedom it doesn;t deserve.

Good luck
JD

[r11bk]

1st post!
I've been trying to develop my altissimo range on my tenor, practicing overtones and all that for a long time, but until today, I haven't hit a single altissimo note.

Jeff D, so I read your post (I just found this forum today).. did your high F thing.. except with a Front E.
well then I tried some altissimo notes.. and actually got a few of them .. high F#, high A, and high B. I think the method works?! :D
still a bit skeptical, but I'll keep trying this out.
I changed to a #3 reed. I'm guessing the 3.5 my teacher told me to use is a little too thick :evil:

[Tears June]

I have been working on Overtone exercise & Altissimo notes exercise for two months. Definitely, overtone exercise from Sigurd Rasher's top Tone really help me a lot on altissimo. Right now, I can fingering Low B to play the next two octave Higher B pitch. Low C fingering to play a High C pitch is still a problem for me, too difficult. Need keep continue to work hard.

For the altissimo notes, I have no problem just to play a single altissimo note with clear and loud sound. The problem is when I'm playing a continue phrasing, I need to change my low lip slightly in order to play a Altissimo note (EXAMPLE: A high F then immediately a altissimo. G). As a result the phrasing can play not smoothly. I have 2 questions need help:

1) I would like to just change my throat cavity instead of changing my low lip. That's real hard for me. Any tips & suggestion?

2) How long you guys need to spend to get a High C# pitch (3rd octave) smoothly by using Low C# fingering - 3 months, 4 months, or longer ? Is it necessary go ahead the diffcult zone I can't do it now (High C & C#)

PS: In each practice session, I spend 10 minutes on Overtone + 10 mintues on note exercise. 5 days a week.

:cry:

[tigerhobs]

Take your thumb and and index finger and feel your throat. Keep it towards the top of your throat. Then put your thumb into your mouth and hold it like your would a mouthpiece. Practice expanding your throat without biting down on your thumb. It may look silly but it will help you control your throat better. Also, feel the bottom and middle of your throat and repeat. Move slowly so that you can feel the muscle move better and try to make the movement controlled. You should also feel the top and bottom at the same time once you have practiced. You should be able to control both separately to a slight degree (at least).

I hope this helps.

[marc]

Mr Jeff D,
Thanks very much !
I was struggling since 2 months with some high overtones.
I read your explanantion and I could pop these out in 2 days !

The key for me was, as you explained very well, that I was not focussing on the corners of my mouth. This was the secret for me. :D

[paradimensional]

I can squeak on pretty much any fingering and hold it out :D

So I can play an altissimo C (give or take about 150 cents) and a palm key F# (with the F# key) but nothing in between. I just think HHHAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaa.............

Such an accomplishment. I know. *bows*