Yamaha over time?

[bbatke]

Looking to get a new alto for my HS son to replace his student sax. Teacher's opinion is to spend the extra $ to get a professional model. We looked at the YAS-82z and he liked it a lot.

Teacher says his experience is that the Yamaha sounds great when initially played side-by-side with other makes. But after a while they don't seem to "open up" (or "break in" -- I don't remember the phrase he used) like the Selmers.

He said he has 2 bandmates who after a year of playing Yamahas want to get rid of them. (teacher is in his 50's and has been playing and teaching a long time).

He did say the 82z is a nice sax ... but in his opinion for the long haul it doesn't develop character like a Selmer. Maybe he is just old-school.

So those of you who have had and played your Yamahas for more than a year or 2, what do you say?

thanks for any advice,
bb. (not a sax player)

[gary]

A sax is not a fine wine. Get the Yamaha and don't worry about it.

Over time there may be some subtile changes in playability of a horn due to pads seating, springs loosening -what have you- but IMO it is not significant enough to base chosing an instrument on. I wouldn't say dogmatically that there aren't changes but the chances your son is going to be aware of them are likely minimal. I personally do not buy into this "one horn settling in" better than another.

There are differences in Selmers and Yamahas and there are those who prefer one over the other. If you're really interested in "opinions" on both makes you can explore this forum ad naseum. Bottom line, pick the horn your son wants; the one that plays and sounds best to him and don't worry about

[Rex]

Sounds like a myth to me -- sorry for my bluntness. Sometimes I think this is just a preference for the sound of vintage horns (and mouthpieces), real or imagined. Your son's teacher might just like Selmers and not like Yamahas. It's a common idea that horns "break in" over time to somehow, in some unquantifiable way, mellow and/or let loose their best inherent tone quality. In reality (well, my belief anyway), over time, the toneholes reseat themselves in the pads, the spring tension will relax over time, and the mechanism will loosen up either due to wear on the keys/rods, or the adjustment loosening up -- all for better or for worse. I believe the primary effect though, is that the player adjusts to these things, and to whatever leaks/other quirks are present, and to the horn in general over time. Then it feels better to play because you can control all of its quirks. I will have to agree with those around here who say that any horn -- old or new -- can benefit from a thorough going-over by a good tech., if only to to check the regulation and fix any leaks (pads).

What's your son going to do with the new horn? Some music schools could be very picky, if that's where he's headed after High School (Selmer or nothing; or maybe an 875EX would be OK but an 82Z would be frowned upon...who knows?). If that's the case, you could just play it safe and have him (and his teacher?) try out a half dozen or so Selmers (which one? SA80II, SA80III, Ref54? In lacquer only?) to find a good one.

[bbatke]

thanks for the info.

I am skeptical of such claims also, being an engineering type. But then I am also willing to listen to what others with experience might have to say.

Not sure whether he will pursue music as a course of study after HS. He may, but primary instrument could be either piano or sax. even if he doesn't study he will probably still play.

He has tried both Yamaha (82z - liked, 62II didn't like), and selmer (62 Serie III - liked and 52 Serie II - didn't like). He says he would be very happy with either the 82z or Selmer. It was fun for me watching him play on a top quality instrument. He said, 'this is glorious' :-)

[Carl H.]

Find out which models the teachers bandmates are selling and how much they are asking. Could be a good opportunity.

[bbatke]

hey, nice idea! unfortunately I believe he said one was a soprano and the other a tenor (we're looking for an alto).

[SaxyAcoustician]

Man, oh man... I find it amusing what artists who have little to no knowledge of science or engineering say about tools of their respective art.

gary is right. Saxophones are not wine, nor are they violins or pianos which have sound boards that actually do "break in" and/or "open up" over time. The saxophone is a machine made of metal that consists of levers that open and close holes to effectively lengthen or shorten the body tube.

The last time I saw Phil Woods play was a couple years ago. From my vantage point in the audience, I saw a vintage-looking horn and just assumed he was playing his Mark VI. Later I was told it was the unlacquered Yamaha 82Z. He didn't sound like a Yamaha, whatever that means. He sounded like Phil Woods and it was out of this world!

[singlereed]

I think sits also fair to say that a Yamaha will play great out of the box and keep playing that way for years with minimal attention. If you lose it, break it etc. buy another and it will be exactly the same as the old one. This is beacuse of their quality design, manufacture and set-up.

My experience of some other (not Japanese) pro level horns is that they need a degree of set up and TLC before they will play right, and then they settle for a while before you get the best out of them. The Yamaha experience has a lot going for it in comparison and many pros use them for exactly the reasons I mentioned above.

[Dentarthurdent]

Rex has it spot on I think. A player will always find that they get more from the horn as time goes by because they learn how to get the best from it - the differences between horns can be quite subtle and it takes a while to REALLY get to know a horn.
Go for what sounds best to your son and ignore this 'breaking in' nonsense. I love my 82Z but we are still sizing each other up! It is an exciting process though...

[averageschmoe]

i've played an 875 tenor for about four years now, i've got the spring tensions dialed into where i like them, it seals top to bottom, and it's required minimal maintenance while facing extensive use. has the horn grown with age? i don't think so, but i have grown into it.

there are universities where equipment is held in such a regard as to be a "my way or the highway" scenario, i've known people who have faced those situations and i still know people who buy into the idea. i think it's absurd. it's a tool. would i be denied an apprenticeship by a master carpenter if i preferred stanley to craftsman, or would we get to the heart of the matter and learn to shape some wood?

[pknight]

there are universities where equipment is held in such a regard as to be a "my way or the highway" scenario, i've known people who have faced those situations and i still know people who buy into the idea. i think it's absurd. it's a tool. would i be denied an apprenticeship by a master carpenter if i preferred stanley to craftsman, or would we get to the heart of the matter and learn to shape some wood?

Honestly, if the carpenter were being paid to promote Craftsman, the way many university music faculty are "clinicians," paid to promote a particular brand of instrument, then yes, you might be denied access with your lousy Stanley tools. It is a sad state of affairs. Fortunately, not all faculty work this way. My son is a music major, and the sax prof insists on Selmer (my son plays a YAS-61). Fortunately, the clarinet prof, although he plays a Buffet, does not object to my son's Selmer Recital clarinet.

[super20dan]

"its the indian-not the arrow"

[saxchado]

After doing some side-by-side comparisons...I STRONGLY recommend having your son try the EX. I felt that the EX was a little bit better made...ie: heavier, more solid, and had more to offer as far as flexibility. This is the experience that I had. I don't know that I would say that the Z is an "inferior" horn. But in the two altos I played side-by-side, there was a noticeable difference between the two. Having said that, I don't think I've ever played a horn I like better than the 82ZUL tenor!

[bbatke]

Just wanted to follow up here. We ended up getting the 82Z alto for my son a couple weeks ago. He loves it ... it's amazing how much better he sounds than on his student sax. His teacher (Selmer-phile) played it also and said he was impressed ... said it was a great sounding sax.

thanks for all the help.
bb.

[jaankaden]

congrats! may the horn bring to you and your son many happy moments!