Phil Woods plays and endorses Yamaha 82Z

[Stretch]

After playing a Mark VI alto since the cows came home Phil Woods is playing and endorsing the Yamaha 82Z alto! In the interview I heard on Thursday he could not say enough good things about the horn. He said a Yamaha rep came to his house in Pennsylvania with 3 different versions of the 82Z and the third one tried "without the lacquer" was the one. Somthing about the great core sound he was looking for. He said "you couldn't pay me enough money to endorse a product I didn't like and use regularly". I did not attend the concert that night at Humber College in Toronto so I can't say personally what Mr. Woods sounded like on a Yamaha. I'm thinking he probably would sound good on a kazoo, though.

[ReedSplitterRev]

Stretch, two superb, top level Canadian alto players have switched over as well - P.J. Perry and Campbell Ryga. Saw PJ w/ Rob McC's Tentet and he sounded fab (as usual). Same story with the kazoo! Apparently, a bunch of pro-type-Vi guys are looking very closely at them...

[Dr G]

Yeah, it's sad when a great player's hearing declines... Or when the pension plan follows the stock market down the tube... :argue:

[saxmanjack]

Don't they make motorcycles?

[MBushaw]

Actually they were making musical insruments before they started making motorcycles.

[Morry]

And Phil Woods would sound good on a kazoo, but only a 5 digit, original lacquer kazoo, because everybody knows that any other kazoo is crap... :lol:

[Gandalfe]

I love my 82Z and it only cost me $2200 with shipping and insurance. I pause to think what a simular Selmer might have cost me...

[ME]

And Phil Woods would sound good on a kazoo, but only a 5 digit, original lacquer kazoo, because everybody knows that any other kazoo is crap... :lol:


LOL! @ Morry! :P

[Dr G]

I love my 82Z and it only cost me $2200 with shipping and insurance. I pause to think what a simular Selmer might have cost me...

And I bought an SML tenor with a recent repad for $1100... and a used Selmer Serie II alto for $1350. I pause to think how disappointed I would be if I had to play a Yamaha. :wink:

[Dave Dolson]

Dr. G: Oh NO!! Are you gonna catch it now from all the Yamaha defenders!! DAVE

[max]

Yesterday I replaced my Yamaha alto with an SML, which I only paid $800 for (with all new pads 11/02). Of course, the Yamaha is a YAS-23, but still... :D

[sessionsax]

I used to be a Selmer snob. I believed that my SBA alto and MKVI tenor were the best horns on the planet. You just couldn't get any better. I used to laugh at Yamaha and Yani owners. Must be that they just can't afford a real horn.

Then I played a Yamaha -- the rest is Yamaha bliss.

I still have my Selmers, but the Yamahas suit me better.

What can I say, I guess I was reformed and feel that I must repent of my bashing :wink:

[sessionsax]

Morry,

That has to be one of the funniest things that I have heard in quite a while!

:D :!: :D :!:

As well as being a recent convert to the Yamaha camp, I am sure lusting for a black nickel Keilwerth tenor -- I understand you are new to the Keilwerth camp.

[Gaijin-san]

Gandalfe, when/where did you pick up the horn for that price??

[saxmanjack]

Would a new Guardala alto for $1800 (WW&BW closeout price) be a better value?

[Gandalfe]

Brass n' Woodwinds in Australia via Ebay. That was before they were available in the states.

Dr G sez he bought a SML for $1100. That what I paid for a mint Couf Superba I. You got ripped. :lol:

[solflare100]

Oh no!! Here comes the rest of the Yammie-bashing crowd! :?

Uh oh, my horn isn't more than 40 years old. That must mean that I sound like a synthesizer sax without any tonal depth or quality!!

I NEED A VINTAGE KAZOO NOW!! Preferably a 5-digit MK VI model!!!

:roll:

[MBushaw]

It's not the kazoo, it's the membrane.
The old ones used natural-cured Yak skin. Modern ones use a paper / plastic that doesn't have the depth of tone Yak does.
Beware that often times a seller will replace the Yak membrane with a plastic one, and claim it is original. very difficult to tell with the naked eye, but easy enough to spot under a microscope.
Now, if you can get a modern kazoo with a Yak membrane!!! Best of both worlds!

[Morry]

Yeah, but even that vintage membrane is crap unless it has been refaced by someone know to the rest of the forum.

[sessionsax]

Right on Morry -- you have got it rolling :P :P :D :D

[Dr G]

Brass n' Woodwinds in Australia via Ebay. That was before they were available in the states.

Dr G sez he bought a SML for $1100. That what I paid for a mint Couf Superba I. You got ripped. :lol:

Brass n' Woodwinds is where I got my Ref 36 for less than what others are paying for a III these days. Good people there. I bought a prepaid phone card and actually used the TELEPHONE to get to know them before I bought the horn. (Anyone remember the telephone?)

Thanks for the advice on the SML, Gandalfe. I recognized the error of my ways and sold that horn. Sorry to hear that you got taken for a ride on a Couf. They don't work for me either. :lol: I finally settled my tenor questing with the Borg'. Between that and the Ref, I'm satisfied. 8)

Go for the tone!

:borg:

"I'm satisfied, tickled too..." Mississippi John Hurt

[pknight]

Brass 'n' Woodwind in Melbourne is a great place to deal with. And you should call and talk to them. They will be very helpful.

BTW, does anyone remember the Yamaha-bashing of a forum member who called himself selmersaxman? I think he was banned.

Selmersaxman. Saxmanjack.

Probably a coincidence.

Probably.

[uksaxman]

Go for the tone & the action:
Get a YTS62, ditch the neck (responsible for the thin tone!)
Replace with a new Ref54 neck= big fat resonant tone, great altissimo, spot on intonation, and keep that fab Yamaha keywork. I've played a fair few horns, inc some good mk6's, and this is my favorite setup. Cheap too, cost me £500 for the 62 in mint cond, = £200 for the neck.
Brian

[saxboy]

I have a couple of nice Kazoo's but recently switched to a C# mouthpiece and a Harmonica mic.
SAXBOY

[Morry]

It's funny you mention Selmersaxman. I had contacted him about trying to get a YTS-62. He more of less told me that they were crap, and he wouldn't get one. Then the 62II comes out, and he stocks them. I've tried the 62II, and IMHO the 62 I owned in the 80's could eat the new model's lunch.

[pknight]

Morry,

Do you know, is the person who runs selmersaxman.com the same person who was selmersaxman on the old forum here? This guy did not act like anyone who would be a successful business person. His attacks on Yamahas were quite visceral and totally uninformed (e.g., "Yamahas are pure crap"). No basis was ever given for his low opinions of Yamahas, just that they were no good.

I just assumed that the forum member was not the same person who was running the web site, since selmersaxman.com did indeed sell Yamaha saxes, at least the Customs, and the forum member trashed everything Yamaha.

[Keith]

selmersaxman.com is not saxforte. I quote "selmersaxman is now saxforte
to reflect the wide range of
Selmer (Paris), Yamaha, Yanagisawa and Keilwerth
professional saxophones offered.
Same management, same ownership, same everything.... new name"

[Gaijin-san]

And I quote too: "Yamaha offer the YTS-875 Custom as their top level tenor saxophone and it's a very close match sonically to the Selmer Paris Serie III tenor. Yamaha fit and finish quality is excellent. They continue to use full length steel screws though the rods and in combination with a light springs, this helps deliver a truly silky key action. "


"very close match sonically"... or in other words, pure crap, right?

[sessionsax]

Gaijin-san

Not crap, just different. I know a lot of pro players that prefer the Yamaha custom. More specifically the alto, but I see tenors as well.

The sound is full and the intonation is great -- that why a lot of studio cats favor them.

Also, they are consistent, you don't have to wonder if you got a "good one" like you do with a MKVI

[Gaijin-san]

sessionsax, I was being sarcastic, emulating the opinion of said SelmerSaxman who bashes Yamahas then turns around and compares them to Selmers as being "sonically similar".

I just found that ironic :)

[Morry]

Maybe they are different people. My only experience was with Mathew, who runs Selmersaxman.com (now Saxforte.com). He always seemed nice and helpful, although his prices don't really compete that well with other non-brick-and-mortar places. It was just odd that he really talked down the "old" YTS-62, but now carries the 62II. I played a 62 for about 10 years, and I've tried the 62II. Personally, I think the old 62 was a better, gutsier horn. Hey, but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[sessionsax]

Gaijin-san

Oh, duh -- forgive me, thats what I get for scanning the forums. I didn't mean to sound accusatory.

I do like the Yamahas though.

[saxboy]

To get back on topic...
My first Sax CD was Phil Woods with Orchestra back in 1976? He has always been an idol to me. Getting to see him, talk to him and hear him play the same sax I was holding in my hands as we spoke was pretty cool.
He sounded great on that 82Z! I wish I could get my record player to work.
I put a new topic up on the Yamaha board. There is a Virtual Tour of the Sax Plant in Japan that is pretty cool.
Wish Phil would drop in and say Hi to us all...
SAXBOY

[MBushaw]

The person who posted on SOTW as Selmersaxman was NOT the person from Selmersaxman.com
There was a bit of a dust up over the use of the name, and then the poster Selmersaxman was gone.

[BlueMax]

Some of you folks sound like Harley riders bashing ricegrinders. Why do you have to justify your purchase? Tells more about you than your horn.
BlueMax

[Gandalfe]

Phil Woods plays an 82z with the non-laquer look (there is some kind of laquer on the horn). He still uses the new york meyer 5* with vandoren ZZ reeds. Anyway that is what he said two weeks ago. He tried his picked-from-the-factory in Paris selmer but decided the yamaha 82z was superior. Man that guy can play. I hear he has a breathing problem, but I couldn't tell by listening to him at the master series he conducted in seattle.

[RaZaDAM]

The first sax i got was a jupiter.

I then bought a Yamaha 62 Alto, without trying, which i realise now is the wrong thing to do, but it was the best thing that's ever happened.

I've been playing on that sax for a year, while thinking selmers were the best saxes out there.

Then once i'd been saving i had enough for a mark6. I went to a company in england, that had over 10 mrk 6's for sale, and tried them all. I couldn't get back to my 62 fast enough, i played lots of selmers, from 39xxx to 210xxx, and favoured my 62 over them all, i've just grown so found of it, and love it to bits.

Adam.

[Morry]

And that is exactly how the process should work. Toss away all the marketing and hearsay. Play the horns, and see what works best for you. I'm glad you found a sax you love. I played Yamahas for years,(exclusively since 1976) and loved them. I found them to be consistent, flexible and durable. My YAS61 that I have had since 76, and the YTS62 I had during the 80's, are/were fine, fine horns. The last 2 tenors I tried (62II and 875B) didn't thrill me as much, so I opted for an SX90R Keilwerth.

Enjoy!

[FOREVERBFC]

I went to a music shop and tried out the 82z Lac. vs the YAS-875EX along with a selmer mark VI and a yani 901 and 902. The Yamaha's are definitly my favorite, The control and the sound is awsome! The 875 was silver plated so It was a little brighter than the 82z. Although, for some reason I prefered the 82z over the the 875. The control of the sax and the lower notes are much more rich to me. There are 2 owners at this specific store I went to. I was dealing with one and he quoted me a wrong price and had to stick with it. I originaly wanted to go with the silver, but no one had it in stock. The price they quoted me for the brass was 1800 and the silver 2030.00 usd. I found this to be an outstanding price . I priced around and no one had it in stock untill oct. and if they had it in stock, it was going for well over 2300. So I guess I'll settle for the brass for now. Please leave me your thoughts on the price and the finish that I choose. thanks

[RaZaDAM]

I wouldn't fancy owning a silver instrument.

I would take the brass over the silver anyday.

If it's the brightness you like, brighten up the sound with something else, dukoff or something, but i'd have the brass over silver. Just the way i am.

Good price man, i wish they came that cheap over here.

Adam.

[sierra]

That forum member called selmersaxman is NOT the same person as Mathew at selmersaxman.com which is now saxforte.com. saxforte.com is run by the same individual that ran selmersaxman.com, they're just offering a wider range of brands, not just Selmer. I think it was a good move that Mathew decided to change the name of his outfit to saxforte.com, it was not good that people were confusing him with that forum member.

[blow]

That forum member called selmersaxman is NOT the same person as Mathew at selmersaxman.com which is now saxforte.com. saxforte.com is run by the same individual that ran selmersaxman.com, they're just offering a wider range of brands, not just Selmer. I think it was a good move that Mathew decided to change the name of his outfit to saxforte.com, it was not good that people were confusing him with that forum member.

The saxforte STILL bashes Yamaha. I tried to get a price on an 82Z, and he told me essentially that the necks were for ***** and he wouldn't price one. Not that ithere's not a problem with them (I didn't notice one on the horn I tested), but get me a price if you're an authorized dealer - what kind of noise is that?

[Morry]

He most likely doesn't have one with the improved neck in stock, so he'd rather push what he has. I'd bet dollars to donuts that, as soon as he's able to get one of the corrected models, he'll be selling them just fine.

[saxboy]

If people didn't like talking SMACK there would be np reason for all of us to keep checkin in.
SAXBOY
www.gregvail.com

[pknight]

Blow,

Well, you have hit on the problem. Saxforte is NOT an authorized Yamaha dealer. He is only an authorized dealer for Yanagisawa and Keilworth. His Yamaha instruments are strictly "gray market." Perhaps this is why he currently posts warnings that Yamaha instruments are in short supply, and that it may take a long time to get them. In reality, they are going to authorized dealers who are able to sell them themselves with no problems, and he can't get his hands on any from his normal European-dealer connections.

So, find yourself a REAL Yamaha dealer, and I'm sure you will be quoted a price.

For example, Woodwind and Brasswind (which, no matter what you think of them, ARE authorized dealers for every item they sell) has all of the new Yamaha models available for delivery within 2-3 weeks. A real dealer will not have the long wait for these that Saxforte has.

[Morry]

I had asked Mathew to get me a YTS-62 (old model), and he basically said he wouldn't because they were crap. I knew that was rubbish because I had played one for 10 years. Then when the new model came out, he was all of a sudden hawking them. I've played a new model, and my 80's model 62 could eat it for lunch.

Keep in mind that although many of these dealers are musicians, FIRST AND FOREMOST they are salesmen.

[saxforte]

Dear Forum Readers:

We generally do not have time to follow the message boards on a daily basis. But when we are slandered, we take exception. We pride ourselves on thorough, honest and straightforward recommendations to clients. When asked about Yamaha 62 (not 62II) saxophones of the recent vintage we respond that they are very dark, wooden and powerless. They were quite different from the older 62 horns which play and sound remarkably like the modern 875 saxophones. I suspect that years ago, Yamaha took the good 62, upgraded its keywork and and transformed it into an 875. Then they created a lousy 62, which was "discontinued" last year by Yamaha. Consider... If it was such a great sax, Yamaha would not have dropped it and reconfigured it as a less expensive, thinned down 62 II.

I hope that "morry" is not one of those who has an axe to grind against me or our business. There are dealers who post here and are simply out to attack a competitior. I mean him no ill. The irony here is that morry and I seem to have fallen for the same sax.. the SX90R.. but that's another story.

As for being a "salesperson". Yes, selling is our business. And saxophones are our passion. Anyone who takes the time to call us will quickly discover that we go out of our way to put the RIGHT horn in a client's hands. The "salesperson" morry refers to would not suggest a client reconsider when they ask for a Reference 36 because they like bright horns. We do. We've lost sales over it. When we mistakenly purchased several YAS and YTS 62 saxophones last year, we had a hell of a time selling them because we'd be straight with the client who would inquire about them. When we sleep at night.... we are at peace with ourselves.

All we strive for is the satisfaction of our clients. It is what we live by and based on the feedback we receive from actual purchasers, we do pretty well at it.
http://saxforte.com/raving_fans/raving_fans.html

As for being an authorized dealer.... we are authorized Yanagisawa and Keilwerth dealers. And do not be surprised if you see this list of brands grow.... very soon. We have never pretended to be an authorized dealer for a brand we do not "officially" represent. We happen to feel that with our saxforte warranty coverage, it makes little difference one way or the other. Many people forget that people have to back the horns they sell..... and a dedicated person, with substantial resources, interested in his integrity... is far more valuable than a piece of paper.

Thanks for "listening".

Respectfully,

Mathew Aaron
owner saxforte formerly selmersaxman....
(but not one of the various "selmersaxmen" who have posted here
http://www.saxforte.com
864 449-4444

[Goin4DaTone]

Interesting post Mathew.
I have a friend who is a VERY good pro player, good friend of Phil Woods. I was at his house last week, and Phil had just sent him an autographed copy of the WWBW photo with the 82z. They have been talking on and off abut the Z’s for months now.
Seeing that my friend has a Grammy with his work with Bob Florence Limited Addition, played numerous times with guys like Frank Sinatra, and on and on, the night of Bob Hope’s 100th birthday we were talking about how he did the Bob Hope show for 17 years. I gotta believe that he knows of what he speaks. Actually, I know that he knows of what he speaks. I hope I’m making my point here.

My friend has done three different a/b tests with my YTS62SE, and his cream de la cream Mark IV. My YTS-62SE holds up very well. The first time he played the horn he said that if someone told him he had to play the rest of his life on this horn, he would be OK with that. He has spent 40 years buying and selling Mark VI's so that he could get the best of the best. Every time he plays the Yamaha, and then theVI, he always says how well the horn holds up against his VI.
It isn't wooden.
It isn’t powerless.
I don't know you, nor do I know Morry, so I had no ax to grind, but I do know that this horn plays.

[saxforte]

follow-up....

As a correction to the previously posted information by morry.

Neither saxforte.com nor selmersaxman.com has ever posessed, offered, or sold any Yamaha 62II saxophones. And we have no plans to offer this level of saxophone from Yamaha.

In mid 2002, we did sell a few YTS-62 and YAS-62 saxophones and our experience with these models has caused us to stay away from them.

We specialize in top caliber saxophones and this model does not excite us.

Morry may be confusing our business with another seller.

Mathew Aaron
http://www.saxforte.com (previously selmersaxman.com)
864 449-4444

[saxforte]

Goin4DaTone

Please do not take my comments personally. I don't dispute that there may be good 62s out there.

All I can say with certainty is that the batch of 62s we received in mid-2002 was horrible. Because Yamaha is a company reknowned for its quality and consistency, we concluded that that was the design of that particular model in that vintage. All bets are off for 62s of other production years. Yamaha have shown themselves to be creative in reinventing models under the same descriptor. This makes it fairly confusing, if not impossible, to compare what appear to be like horns from different design iterations.

However, that experience taught us to steer clear of the 62...and we did and cautioned our clients to as well.


Mathew Aaron
httpo://www.saxforte.com
864 449-4444

[Morry]

Mathew,

I have no agenda or axe to grind with your or your business. Everyone I have talked to has had a fine experience dealing with you. I can only share my experience. We did talk on several occasions about the possibility of my purchasing a Yamaha from you. You dissuaded me, in no uncertain terms from buying a 62, saying you wouldn't sell them because they were of poor quality. I played a 2002 model, and it played and sounded very, very similar to the 1980's model that I owned for 10 years. It was a powerful horn that can hold it's own with anything out there, IMO.

I am feel quite sure that, when the new Yamaha line came out, you mentioned the 875EX, 82Z AND 62II on your site. I am searching web archives to find out for sure, but if I am wrong, I will certainly eat my words.

[saxforte]

Morry,

It seems we both play and love SX90Rs now.
I am particularly fond of the solid nickel-silver verisons of the SX90R.
Is it a coincidence?

[Morry]

My tenor is plain gold lacquer, and my alto is the dark gold lacquer over nickel plate. I'm eager to try one of the nickel-bodied horns. I wish they made it in baritone.

[pknight]

My experience with a YTS-62 purchased in 2002 is similar to Morry's. I have had older 62s, and a couple of 61s, which many seem to prefer. The newer 62 gives nothing away to any of the others. I certainly have never heard anyone describe them as "dark" before, and I know that mine has a very bright tone. It's too bad that saxforte had bad experience with them, but based on my personal experience, that of other players, and testimonials from many users here and on the old forum, his reaction is in the distinct minority.

Saxforte's "suspicion" that there was some meaningful change in design during the run of the 62s is certainly pure speculation. I have never heard anyone knowledgable about these instruments suggest that early 62s became 875s, and then were replaced by a "lousy" instrument. And are we supposed to buy the logic that a manufacturer would not upgrade an model while in the process of retooling for new lines unless the older model was no good? Consider... if the Mark VI was such a great sax, Selmer would not have dropped it.....

[Morry]

Having owned a 62 and a 875B, I don't believe at all that the 62 "evolved" into the 875. I haven't measured it scientifically, but I have a skeaking suspicion that the body tube on the 62 and 875 are of a different bore. The bow is certainly not the same, and I doubt whether the tube is either. The resistance on the two horns seemed sufficiently different to give me that impression.

With a decent Link STM, the 62 was very husky, but not dark, and with a metal Berg, it could get edgy enough to make your eyes bleed. Man, I hate that I sold that horn. Having recently bought and returned a 62II, I got none of the same warm and fuzzy feelings from it. Especially not when played side-by-side with the SX90R that I eventually bought.

[pknight]

Morry,

I have not tried a 62-II, so I can't comment on whether they are better than/worse than/the same as the 62. Your comments suggest that there are more than cosmetic differences between the two models. I don't believe that there were any changes other than minor improvements during the 62 run.

I think my eyes have actually bled when I've used a Plasiticover reed on my 62. Of course, with a bad reed it can sound pretty dead, but that is the reed, not the sax.

[shmuelyosef]

Blow,

For example, Woodwind and Brasswind (which, no matter what you think of them, ARE authorized dealers for every item they sell) has all of the new Yamaha models available for delivery within 2-3 weeks. A real dealer will not have the long wait for these that Saxforte has.

WW&BW does not have any YTS-87Z's until October...they suggest that shipment will be sold out by the end of June...so somebody thinks that these are nice horns.

Yamaha's are probably the only horn that I would buy sight unseen, as they have been so incredibly consistent when I have had the opportunity to play identical models side by side

[SaxFlutist]

Just took back a:

Yamaha YTS-875
Yamaha YTS-82Z L (both lacquered)

(they both sound like ducks playing kazoos to me - nice sounding kazoos though).

Then I got a:

Yamaha YTS-82Z-UL (unlacquered)

Et voila. More like an elephant with gas playing a trombone. Lovely deep fluffy tone. Now it sounds like a "sexy-phone".

No, I'm not a poet ...

[shmuelyosef]

Since this got updated, I'll update my comments. I now play both YAS and YTS 82ZS. Slowly, I'm even preferring them to my Yanagisawas. These are just amazing horns in terms of how well they get out of the way and let you sound any way you want. I have seen Phil play his and he is just as awesome as ever.