kohlert stencil "silvertone"

[mpavao]

recently purchased a silvertone, was told it was a kohlert made for u.s. market..rolled tone holes, pearl g# key, missing neck...duct taped my selmer neck on this tenor and my wifes jaw dropped, said it sounded like a bari!...my sentiments too!...never heard a tenor sound so dark...anyone know about these horns?

[MTN]

hmmmm
never say never
but
Silvertone was Sears Roebuck
and often Buescher-manufactured, I think
Kohlert necks are not easy to come by
Best of luck

[djonk]

<<Silvertone was Sears Roebuck >> Yes it was and on the websites:

http://www.saxking.com/manufacturers1.htm
(Conn made Sears & Roebuck).

http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/HasAnyoneHeard.html
(Silver Tone Sears Roebuck & Co.; made by Blessing and H. N. White)

[mpavao]

thanks for all the responses...i failed to mention that on the neck receiver is stamped "made in germany"....so its pre wwii.....and it wouldnt be conn or buescher because of the rolled tone holes....so in the spirit of good clean fun, i'm stickin with kohlert unless someone can come up with something better....but hey, i'm still waiting for some info on rene dumont...i know he was a band leader in berlin in the 20s & 30s....is it a keilwerth stencil or a keilworth copy..it too is stamped..."made in west germany"....and was $145 too much to pay for a bari?...best wishes to all..

[djonk]

<<....and it wouldnt be conn ----- because of the rolled tone holes....>>

Vintage Conn, does has roled tone holes!

[Anonymous]

Hey mpavao,

Does your Silvertone have right-side bell keys with individual guards for each (like those Selmer SBAs), an unusual octave key thumb-rest, an unusually wide/deep low C key-touch, and art-deco engraving?

I saw one on eBay recently, and thought about getting it despite the fact it too didn't have a neck. I'd like to have one.

They do look a *lot* like later Kohlerts, built very solid, and I've also heard the story that they were a Kohlert model made for the US market. If it has right-side bell keys, like most modern horns, your German-made horn is probably post-WWII, not pre... maybe mid 50s to 60s. As pointed out earlier in this thread, the Silvertone name was associated with a horn made by Buescher, but the folks who made this more-modern Silvertone probably didn't know that. If you can get a neck, it should be a keeper. Good luck.

Wally

[mpavao]

djonk...yes vintage conn has rolled tone holes, conn stencils do not...this silvertone does have rolled tone holes so it aint a conn...

[mpavao]

yo wally...this IS the one you saw on ebay and it sold for $154 incl. shipng...and for the sake of friendly argument there was no germany after wwii, only west germany and east germany...its not fair because i have the case and it looks 1930s....the gentleman i bought it from said he and others thought kohlert stencil and i still see no reason to disagree...yes it is a keeper and it'll get a yamaha g1 neck as soon as yamaha straightens out the problems they're having with them....thanks for the input fellas...

[Anonymous]

and for the sake of friendly argument there was no germany after wwii, only west germany and east germany

Ah, but this logic doesn't always apply ... And come to think of it, I haven't yet seen any horns stamped "Made in East Germany."

Let us hear how it turns out once you have a neck that rocks ... If you have a digital photo of the horn, why not post it here and see if someone can enlighten us all ... The gentleman you bought yours from told me he tried a Kohlert neck on it but it didn't fit ...

[mpavao]

the question was "does anyone know about these horns?" and it appears that 3 out of 3 do not....this will be my last post..i have better things to do with my life....

[djonk]

mpavao, don't go away mad! Your topic was interesting and produced a responses. "You don't always get what you want," as sung by a famous rock singer!

[stitch]

Don't want to cause further distress to you mpavao, but two things come to mind: firstly that this is a forum - an area for debate; I tend to think of it as a bunch of folks sitting around shooting the breeze, and sometimes things can get way off topic, but that just adds to the fun. Secondly that while not strictly answering your question some of the earlier replies threw a few more ideas in the pot, and you seemed quite happy to discuss them. Let's hope the above was just a case of getting out of the wrong side of the bed - come back soon when you feel able.

[djonk]

HowLong is a Chinaman's name.

"does anyone know ?" and it appears that 3 out of 3 do not....this will be my last post..i have better things to do with my life....

[StewartMilton]

I know this topic is kind of dead, but my Kohlert stencil has Made in Germany on the neck receiver too. West Germany liked to call themselves Germany, East G tended to say Made in GDR, as on B&S saxes of that era.

My serial number is 655** and best guess is late sixties to early seventies. I know of a 43*** sax which is definitely 1960. If yours is a Kohlert it will probably also have the number duplicated on the back of the G# key.

It is a superb sax.....definitely a keeper (as they're not worth nearly as much to sell as they are to play!) Photos on saxpics should confirm what you have, or not.

Enjoy

[Doc Frazier]

We recently restored a Silvertone alto for a customer and we found when we stripped all of the old lac from the horn, 2 engravings appeared.....1 that said made in Germany and the other was the Kolhert insignia. We found by comparing pics of it against true Kolherts that it ws a Kolhert stencil. Very nice horn indeed.
Doc

[MTN]

and what please, would that Kohlert insignia be?
the word, Kohlert? VKS?
I would be especially interested to hear if there is some 'logo,' similar to Keilwerth's globe, since on the dozen Kohlerts I have, none has a graphic indicative of Kohlert manufacture.

[MTN]

One may find geographical references engraved on a Kohlert; perhaps Kraslice or Graslisz, Bohemia, Winnenden, or Bixley. 'Made in Germany' appears on a Kohlert 55. Pre-war Kohlerts were made in what was technically the Sudetenland but that engraving does not appear on early ones. Of my dozen Kohlerts, none have a logo/graphic related to point of manufacture-like JK's globe, for example. Nor have I seen a Kohlert with an East or West qualifier re: location.

[singlereed]

Kraslice or Graslisz, Bohemia this is all Czech isn't it? I thought Kraslice is where Amati lives?

[singlereed]

Whoops, obviously I don't know how to use the 'quote' feature.

[MTN]

me neither, and I think you are right that is where Amati lives
not the same folks though, there was a good bit of musical activity going on in that area

[frobig]

This is way past the last post, but just to clear geography up: until the end of WWI, Kraslice was Graslitz, a city in the province of Bohemia, which was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The empire lost the war, along with Germany, and was split up into Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Austria, as well as donating parts to Poland and Yugoslavia. I'm a little foggy myself on whether Bulgaria came out of this mix, and the U.S.S.R. may have scooped up some turf at this time. Graslitz had been German-dominated, but as it ended up in Czechoslovakia, its Czech spelling was used from 1918 on. This happened to cities all over the Empire. Well, except for Austria, where German is still the official language.