Barone Hollywood Tenor vs Theo Wanne Link

[MM]

Ok folks, how do they compare? Also wonder how they stack up against a vintage Dukoff "BD" Hollywood.

Thanks.

[BATMAN]

They don't really compare at all. They are pretty much two different animals. I own an example of all the above btw....

The Barone Hollywood is like a hybrid of a link and a hollywood dukoff. The chamber is large, and the walls are scooped, much like a link, and the baffle is more of the Dukoff design (very long, low rollover). The baffle is higher than a vintage hollywood, but not as high as a florida link. The sound I would describe as grainy and semi-bright, but linkish. Bob Sheppard is the best example of this sound. Though Bob's sound is Bob's sound, it is a good example of the Barone Hollywood sound.

A Theo link is variable. When I got mine, it had a high baffle in it. It played like a Dukoff D but with a huge chamber, making for fat low notes and less focus. I had the baffle lowered to about a medium-low height. I would describe the sound as vintage Sonny Rollins...medium edge but plenty of lows. With no baffle, it sounds like a Tonemaster type sound, dark and big, but just enough edge to be heard. Think of John Coltrane's Blue Train for a good example. Of course, this is all in my experience....take into consideration that I use hard reeds.

The BD Hollywood is BIG, DARK, and can cut better than a link. It is darker than a florida, darker than a tonemaster, but it is more focused than either, because of the smaller chamber and straight walls. Blue Note period Dexter Gordon is an oft-used reference for the sound of the Hollywood, and it really is reminiscent of that vibe. These mpcs have NO baffle, so you should use harder reeds. This is NOT the mpc to use if you desire edge. Like I said, this mpc is very dark, but since it has more focus, it tends to cut through better than a link. I'd describe the sound as husky. This is definately not a mpc for the faint of heart if you want to be heard :) But combine this with a Conn and you've got a KILLER combo.

I currently use a vintage BD "7" with RJS 4S.

[MM]

Batman, thanks. I have a BD Dukoff so I know what they're about. I love it in a combo situation, but a times I find myself wishing for a bit more edge and projection in big band. Yet I'd like to stay with the a similar overall concept. The angled chamber pieces (Bergs, Ponzols, etc) just don't do it for me; they're harsher, less warm sounding.

I'm not quite sure why you say the Hollywood Dukoff is not for the faint of heart. Mine is fairly player-friendly.

I love Bob Sheppard's sound while Sonny's sound doesn't move me as much as his ideas. Bob sure had no problem projecting when I heard with with Origin. His tonal concept seems to borrow heavily from Trane, who has my favorite voice on the tenor. I've heard Dex several times. My preference is for a tenor sound that cuts through a bit more more than Dex did.

As you infer, I may just need to find the right reed for my BD Hollywood and blow harder. Although it seems to have the Link issue of chiriping with harder reeds.

[BATMAN]

I say not for the faint of heart for the reason you say you wish to try other mpcs....not very much edge!

In order to project and cut, you have no baffle to rely on. Only your airstream and control of the sound. I agree...they play easilly though. But again....they take more work than a higher baffle piece.

You can cut through a big band....but it takes more work than with a higher baffled piece. You might like the Barone Hollywood if you find a good one. Bob definately has trane in his sound... But if you're going to spend that much, I'd suggest saving some more money and finding a good Link Tonemaster instead.

Or try a "new" Hollywood Dukoff. They are brighter than the BDs, but still have that feel. In A-B recorded comparisons, I had a hard time telling the mpcs apart ! The new one is brighter though. Actually, it just FEELS brighter, and sounds brighter to your ears. It's not THAT much brighter than a BD in actual side by side comparison.

You can get that trane sound if you use fairly stiff reeds and blow. Or if you are using softer reeds, you need to FOCUS the tone. Remember, Trane's tonemaster had a low baffle too. By hard reeds, I mean hard for YOU. I play RJS 4S and can go as high as 4M...you probably wouldn't want to play any harder!

What size is your BD and what reeds are you using? Have you tried a livelier reed like RJS filed? Or trying even a livelier ligature will do wonders. A Francois Louis kig is killin on the Hollywood....

The Theo Link with no baffle could be good for you. I'd suggest you ask him not to bore the chamber out too much, and mainly clean up the baffle (adding material when needed), facing, and rails. Ask him to turn a NY Link to a Tonemaster. I like his custom link, but the chamber is way too large when bored all the way out, at least for me.

[MojoBari]

... but a times I find myself wishing for a bit more edge and projection in big band.

Then I would recommend a little more baffle. Try a pea-shaped amount of temporary putty (poseter-hanging putty, wax, Play-doh). Make a speed bump shape out of it starting 1/3" away from the tip and ending 1" away from the tip. This does wonders in Links, but still retains the larger chamber core sound. Should work in your BD too. Add more/less to taste. Make permanent with epoxy putty once you find something you like.

[Tears June]

BATMAN

You have good expereince of Barone MPC. I'm interested of their tenor MPC (Also ESP).

If compare with Hollywood, New York & Jazz model:

1) Which one you're consider is clsoe to Dexter's sound, very thick, rich and lush. Slightly dark but not dull.

2) Which of this model is most easy to control & worthy to buy?

:cry:

[BATMAN]

Tears June---hi. I don't have any experience with those other barone models, but from hearing players that have used the NY and Jazz models (e.g. Charles Lloyd, Stanley Turrentine, Steve Grossman, etc...) I would say that the NY and Jazz models would be less like dexter than the Hollywood. The Hollywood plays a lot like a bright BD, with a little more "grain" in the sound. The others sound more like links with modified baffles.

Note, getting Dexter's sound is going to most be influenced by the player's ability, so a particular mpc won't necessarily make you sound like him. Any number of pieces can get that thick, lush sound with a bit of work, but in my personal experience, nothing does it better than a Hollywood BD like he used.

A really good option, if you can find an example with a good facing is a modern "hollywood dukoff" from dukoff. The baffle is a little higher so it is brighter than the BD. The BD has almost no baffle, so if you're not used to it, it may seem "dull" at first after coming from higher baffles. The new Hollywood made of silverite has a little more kick to it. I used one myself until I got my own Hollywood BD.

hope that helps :)

[hardbop]

I have the Barone Hollywood 8* and it is very full with a 'woody' grain in the lower register. :) The long baffle rollover allows for pretty good projection. I love the way the side walls are scooped out. I use Hemke #3 reeds and a Rovner Dark lig. Some choke on the price, but it is well worth it. As for who to immitate, you have to listen and gain a conception in your mind and work towards it. As always, you will always sound like yourself!

[Morry]

I play a Barone Jazz, and it is somewhat Link-like, but more gutsy IMO.

[Dr G]

I've had a few Barone JAZZ and a couple more HOLLYWOOD - they are close enough that either will get you in the ballpark. The differences between various 'pieces within the same model are almost as great as the differences betweent the JAZZ and the HOLLYWOOD. That said, all of them were good - some were just better than the rest and one was best! My two fav's were a Hollywood 8 that Theo touched up and a Silver Jazz that was just a dream to play. Maybe the JAZZ was so good because you don't have to plate a silver 'piece - the final, finetuned product is exactly what you get after final tweaking - no question about whether there is an influence of plating changing any dimensions.

[JS]

Tears June,
If you want to have a sound like Dexter Gordon's, you would be better off transcribing and playing along with Dexter's recordings - in other words, "hit the shed"! Do some research, and not only spend some time with Dexter's music, but also, the players that he was influenced by - Lester Young is a huge influence. Check out the recordings from some of his peers - Wardell Gray, Gene Ammons, even John Coltrane - in early recordings of Trane (like when he was with Dizzy's band), the Dexter influence was huge. Then, later in Dexter's career, Trane was an influence on HIM (check out his solo on "A Night In Tunisia" from "Our Man In Paris"). Michael Brecker once said that if you wanted to sound like him, then immerse yourself in what HE listened too - then you will become his peer, and not his imitator. I could be mistaken, but I think somewhere in one of your posts, you said that you played on an Otto Link - it's a good mouthpiece! Yes, Dexter used a BD Hollywood for years, and yes, he used a Link in his later years. His tone changed slightly, but you know what, he still sounded like Dexter Gordon! I would argue that he would still sound like Dexter on a garden-hose!
I've known Theo for years, and he's a huge Dexter Gordon fan. I don't think that you could go wrong with Theo's work, provided that you're clear about what you're really looking for. However, Theo isn't taking any "custom" orders until after January.
My point is this, Tears June - if you really love Dexter's sound, and that's where your heart is, then geez - throw yourself into his music! A different mouthpiece might feel more or less comfortable than your current setup, but it's still not a substitute for good, honest practicing.
Have fun! :D
-JS

[Phil Barone]

I don't know Theo's Links but I understand he's learned a lot from looking at the Links that I've done. At least his description of what he does on his site is unusually similiar to what I do except one thing that's not detectable by eye.

As for my pieces, the Hollywood, NY, and Jazz are all like Links but different to varying degrees. The Hollywood plays like a high baffle piece in that it's very responsive but manages to be dark and when you put more air in it it gets brighter and the sound gets more complex but retains a warm quality. It doesn't thin out. It's really kind of a freak and while I put a lot into making the mold and stuff, in the process it came out much better than the prototype and I don't know why.

The NY is virtually a copy of a really great ToneMaster but again when it went from prototype to finished product, came out better.

The Jazz is a copy of a New York Super Tonemaster and I made it with a slightly higher baffle for more volume and a bigger chamber to compensate for the higher baffle. It's the darkest of the three Link-like mouthpieces. All three of them are my babies. Phil

Ok folks, how do they compare? Also wonder how they stack up against a vintage Dukoff "BD" Hollywood.

Thanks.

[Sigmund451]

Phil, do you have those forged, sandcast or investment cast? Just curious.