Your Choice; Which Modern Day Tenor is the Most Versatile?

[Jazzsums]

We all know that the Selmer Mark VI has the reputation as the "Do it All Rather Well" Tenor. There are other horns that may do one thing better than the Selmer, but the VI really was versatile.
If you are only going to play one modern day tenor in a wide variety of musical styles and playing situations, what's your choice?
Dave 8)

[T-MAN]

Ref 36--versatile, I find it does all musical styles very well

[Sax Ant]

T Man
Have you any Information on a Lewin low pitch tenor, silver plated on brass. I would be grateful for any comments or opinions.
Sax Ant

[T-MAN]

Sax Ant-

Sorry, never heard of a Lewin low pitch tenor. Anybody out there with experience with this horn???

[Sax Ant]

T Man
Thanks anyway for your reply, this c :? ompany was based in Cambridge England, but I can find no info on them at all.
Regards
Sax Ant.

[Dr G]

To answer the original poster, I, too, give the nod to the Ref 36. I' ve had mine for a couple years now and have used it for classical quartet as well as contemporary big band and R&B shows ('retha Franklin tribute-type shows).

[Kosma]

Can someone name one pro horn made in the last 40 years that is not versatile?

I've played a lot of styles on a lot of horns and while some horns were much better than others, this question never occurred to me beyond a weak/strong horn being better for a soft/loud gig, or whatever.

I did spend years trying to get more power/louder by trying different mpcs. until I finally realized it was the "versatile mkVI" that was the limiting factor. So in my experience, the mk VI is less versatile than many other makes.

Sorry, but it's an illogical question imho.

I think any strong horn is more versatile than a weak one simply because you can play a loud horn soft but you can't play a "weak" horn [as] loud.
(arguable by degrees of course)

It just seems to me that there are other more specific elements that are a better basis for comparison from one make to another. No?

Then, once again, it all comes down to the player as evidenced by the "straight" answers so far and surely more to come.

And if you think I'm full of it- fire away!

[saxman311]

You have to keep in mind that you can't just say one horn is better than another all the time. I've heard that some Mark VI's were awesome while others were completely horrible. Personally I play on a Yamaha Custom and love it, but that's just me!

[Jazzsums]

This is in no way an illogical question.
Nearly all of us have a limited amount of moola ($) :roll: o put out for a new horn.
Assuming most of us consider ourselves TOTAL musicians, rather then "pigeon-holing" ourselves as a "jazz" or "rock" or "classical" musicians, (bad for personal growth, as well as one's wallet) most sax players want a horn to cover all their musical needs well.
I stand by my question, and I hope to get solid opinions of the current production horns from people who have done more legwork than myself!
Dave 8)

[Kosma]

OK then- I cast my vote for the Keilwerth SX90!

And I stand by my question: What pro horn made in the last 40 or 20 years is NOT versatile? Or not versatile enough? I can't think of even one...

[Jazzsums]

Kosma; nice choice: grandson of my Couf!
I'm not trying to diss your opinion.
I'm trying to find out what's currently "hot" and why.
We have a ton of experience and valid opinions on this board and I'm trying to tap into that.
Peace,
Dave 8)

[Kosma]

That makes sense...and please don't take me too seriously! I just enjoy talking about our obscure obsession. Liven things up a little, havin' a little fun. Feel free to diss my opinion! That's how we all learn.

I think the Keilwerth is the hottest horn out there! I truly cannot imagine a better horn.
It has sound and keywork. I don't even think about other tenors anymore. Well I do have a '51 Aristo awaiting a rebuild so that jury is still out...but I digress...but I'm done anyway.

[averageschmoe]

i'd have to stand by my custom. considered by jazz players to be a classical horn and by classical players to be a jazz horn i don't think there's a greater tribute to its versatility.

[Dr G]

Feel free to diss my opinion! <snip>

I think the Keilwerth is the hottest horn out there! I truly cannot imagine a better horn.

So have you yet considered the original question? Do you play in several different contexts? A "hot" tenor is not one that I'd want to try to "tame" for classical. Similarly, a dead-dark horn might not function at all for contemporary jazz or R&B. I agree that there really is a place for a flexible tenor that is not compromised. I, too, am not one to have a different tenor for every need.

[Gandalfe]

To a large part, I think the success of a sax as a classical vs. rock vs. jazz instrument is more about the mouthpiece and player than the horn. But then maybe I'm happy with many kinds of horns.

[Jazzsums]

These are really valid thoughts.
We all have that bond of making music.
I appreciate your inputs and opinions.
I'm in the very early stages of updating my equipment; only if warrented.
I highly respect many musician's opinions I read on our board.
Thank you, and please keep 'em coming!
Dave 8)

[phathorn]

I think it would also depend largely on someones concept of sound. I personally find my Guardala well suited for all types of playing.

[Bootman]

Jk Straight tenor, Real Man's Soprano.

[Jazzsums]

Jk Straight tenor, Real Man's Soprano ala Bootman!
:lol: HA! :lol:

[Dr G]

Jk Straight tenor, Real Man's Soprano.

... and probably great for playing in crowded elevators, phones, etc. as well!

Hey, get your bell out of my boot! Imagine what it must do to small dogs... :shock: :?

Hmmm, maybe they don't take up as much room in the corner of the closet. Maybe I'll get a manly sop and tell my wife it's a space-saving consideration. Yeah, she'll go for that... :roll:

[Razzy]

I'm generally torn between the Yamaha Custom and mark VI.

But as far as versatility is concerned, I also believe it depends more on mouthpiece and sound concept. In classical music, I use a less flexible embouchure, a more open oral cavity (kind of like the "ol" in "old"), and more air, but at a slower speed... in jazz and rock, I use a faster air stream, a more "u" like the french word "tu" oral cavity, and a more flexible and perhaps loose embouchure. Articulation is much different too. I, however, use a moderate setup so that I can play both jazz and classical with the same mouthpiece and reed. Eventually, I may go to two extremes on all my horns, which would require purchasing 8 new mouthpieces... something I can't really afford right now!!

[Bootman]

Dr.G,
You use the small dog as a mute, great for getting that elusive low A on tenor.

[Dr G]

:lol: :shock: :D :roll:

[jjgold]

Ok...let's leave the animals out of it...next thing you know the animal activists will be boycotting saxophone playing!

[Kosma]

Dr.G- I do play in several different contexts, but not classical. That's another ballgame even from my softest jazz gigs, but like Gandalfe said, it's more a matter of mpc anyway.

To answer the original question: I think any modern horn is plenty capable in ANY context. Also, I don't think any horn could be definitively called the "most versatile".

On the word "hot"...

Jazzsums: hot= "popular"
Me: hot="great"
DrG: hot="loud"

On the SX90: Yes it's loud-really loud!
Also versatile-Steve Pollock (New Century Saxophone Quartet) played one for years. I imagine he's not the only one.

[Dr G]

On the word "hot"...

Jazzsums: hot= "popular"
Me: hot="great"
DrG: hot="loud"


Please don't put words in my mouth - especially those which do not conform to my previous statements on a topic. I don't use the adjective "hot" to describe a loud horn. For that, I say "loud" - it gets the point across without question.

If I were to use the description "hot", I would be referring to a horn with so much edge to its tone to be on the verge of undesirable to listen to or play. "Loud" is only a dynamic and is easily moderated by the player. Just because a horn has the capacity to play loud doesn't mean that it has to be loud or out of balance with a section.

[Kosma]

Dr.G wrote:

"A "hot" tenor is not one that I'd want to try to "tame" for classical."


Regardless of your precise intended definition, you were referring to "sound" and I wasn't. A misunderstanding.

[jjgold]

Modern Day Tenor....Well up until recently I would of said none...now....

BORGANI VINTAGE. :lol:

[Randall]

In my stable, the Guardala Earth Tone gets the nod for most versatile modern tenor.
Buescher 400 THC for the vintage.

[jim3121]

I sold my Mark VI last month and bought a silver-plated(not solid silver-plated only)T991 Yanagisawa. I really love this instrument - even & smooth action, fast responding and just a really great sound! I had to buy it from the U.K.(saxophones.com)as they don't sell the silver-plated T991 here. Maybe, the gold lacquer would sound just as good, who knows really!

[blow]

First post here. I'll try not to be too inflammatory, but... ;).

If you ask me which horn gives me the most versatile sound, listen to bird, and realize that he picked up many of his horns just before the gig - and even played on a platic horn at one time and was still able to get his sound out of it.

The truly flexible horn is played by the truly flexible musician. By this, I mean, if you're flexible in your approach, it won't matter much which horn you use, which mouthpiece, which reed, which stand, or which corkgrease.

I have played country, bluegrass, blues, rock, hard rock, R&B, funk, funk jazz, bop, post bop, hard bop, show tunes, big band, pop, folk, nusery rhymes, dinner music, dixieland, classical, pep band, and big band, etc, and have used at various times:

mark vi
mk vii
series ii
sa80
serie II
serie III
ref 54
yam 52
yam62
Conn (really old w/tuning mechanism, not sure which vintage)
Vito
Buescher

alto, sporano, tenors in various configurations.

My setups have been more consistent:

Tenor:
FL metal link #8
berg metal 120/2
(a long time ago - strathon)
(even longer time ago - berg hard rubber, 110/1)
reed: la voz hard or medium hard

Alto:
berg metal 110/0
reed: la voz hard

soprano:
selmer metal (unknown strength)
link hr in unknown config
reed: rico royal 3 1/2

I tend to blow really hard, and in my case, metal mp works best in all settings.

What all of these have in commin is NOT music context - but what I preferred playing at the time. If I want to blend, I blend using breath control, not horn or mp as a control. Reed brand and strength is the one thing I sometimes will experiment with, and even that has more to do with personal preference such as effort and altissimo performance.

Classical playing doesn't even come into the picture because imo, that doesn't exist as a professional opportunity unless we're talking aout a university or quartet setting. How many classical pieces have been composed for sax over the years in a symphony? Not enough for a major symphony to hire even one saxophonist permanently. When you hear about someone playing 'legit', you're probably talking aqbout a college professor. That's my two cents on that subject anyway. In that case, it's probably the clarinetist doubling, imo.

I've read where guys have ten or more setups for that gig they're playing, but only on this board. In practice, most players would be scared to death to show up at a gig where they're using a setup that they haven't spent the last ten years perfecting.

Me, I'd rather get "my" sound, on whatever horn I'm using, meaning my own mp and reed and my own brand of style, even on a horn I borrowed in a jam session, than worry abuout whether I'm playing on a selmer mk vi or a chu berry.
:shock:

I wanted to buy -one- horn right now, I'd buy a new selmer or keilwerth because it's cheaper and less risky than buying an off brand or a vintage horn that may or may not be good, keeping in mind that you can try dozens of new horns before buying. But the vintage model is always one of a kind.

[BobD]

jim3121,

So you sold a VI tenor and bought a Yanagisawa? What was wrong with the VI that made you sell it? Do you miss anything about the VI as compared to the Yani?

[Vader]

I have to say that although the horn is important, I think the mouthpiece has a more immediate affect on overall versatility.
Some horns spread more than others, which makes it sometimes difficult to feel comfortable in a modern situation. You can compensate for that with a more modern mouthpiece, and a good reed to supplement it.
Other horns have the natural tendency to peel paint, and you therefore compensate for that with a lass baffled mouthpiece.
Where the horn comes into it is the ability to project, and key design. Both the ability to project, and the ease of keywork come into play more in contemporary music, a little more than the small group/straight ahead player.
The best horns I've played, have been Selmers. Period. the series 3 is a very middle of the road horn. It's not too bright, the keywork is great, and it projects nicely. The references are cool as well, but they are a little darker, which is not a bad thing mind you, but it might require some setup modifications to get a more modern sound.
Well, the money thing was brought up before, and that's a legitimate point, so I think you go Yamaha(easy to play, workable sound, average projection), Yanigisawa(similar to the Yamaha), and then come the Keilworths and Guardala's. The Keilworth just felt cold to me, as did the Gaurdala. The Keilworth does produce a fatter sound, and does project nicely, but something was missing for me there. The Guardala's felt cold as well, but felt well made, and projected well. Old Conns are killing, but the keywork is obviously not as good. I really like them though, and you can get them pretty reasonably priced.
All that said, I believe you can accomplish almost anything with anyhorn. It's more about your setup, and your practice time.