Doubling from Flute to Sax

[Fluteaphone]

I am a longtime flute player who did some doubling on alto in high school (back when fashion tended towards polyester & long hair). The church worship team I've been playing with has asked if I could pick up sax again. I borrowed a friend's alto and it was a pretty bad experience. Even after a couple of months of practice I would get a headache from the backpressure and a sore mouth. My family complained that it sounded like a foghorn. Maybe it was the condition of the horn. It was old and had many leaky pads.

I'm wondering if a tenor would be a better match for a flute player. I've heard that compared to alto, it takes a more relaxed embouchure and a bit more air, both of which should favor a flutist. I know that doing sight-transposition from flute music to tenor should be a bit easier since it's only one step difference. Any comments or suggestions? Any recommendations on makes/models of instrument would also be appreciated.

[Bootman]

Alto is a lot easier to start with than a tenor. I would suggest taking some lessons from a good teacher, they will help get the Sax sounding as it should.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Maybe it was the condition of the horn. It was old and had many leaky pads.

Trying to play sax with many leaks is like trying to play a flute with a bee sting on your lip. Give yourself a chance!

I agree with Bootman.

[MM]

I do find it easier to go back and forth between tenor and flute than between alto, soprano or clarinet and flute. But this is doing shows with fast horn changes where the the challenge is getting a good flute embouchure very quickly after playing a different instrument.

[Fluteaphone]

Bootman, Gordon, MM: Thanks for the replies. You confirmed most of my thoughts.

Right now I'm leaning towards tenor because I will have to make some quick instrument changes, as we tend to segue immediately from piece to piece. I plan to rent a tenor for a few months just to make sure this is right for me.

[JfW]

Even after a couple of months of practice I would get a headache from the backpressure and a sore mouth. My family complained that it sounded like a foghorn.

perhaps a mouthpiece change is in order, or try softer reeds initially. It may just take more time to get used to the backpressure. Bleeding and callous lips are a part of growing into the instrument.

The "Fog Horn" sound is part of the fundemental problem of learning to play the saxophone: Tone! Personally, I can't stand to listen to most junior high and quite a few highschool sax players for this reason. To my ears, improper support and embrocure punish the inexperienced sax player moreso than with other instruments.

Make sure the mouthpiece is pointed directly to the back of your throat, not upwards like a clarinet. Try taking in more of the mouthpiece, or possibly less.

[Fluteaphone]

Update:
Rented a tenor sax, a brand new Yamaha YTS 23. What a world of difference! Much easier to blow and much easier on the ears (very important to the family). Also started taking private lessons. The foghorn sound has mostly gone away. Sometimes shows up in the very lowest notes below C1, but I'm working on it and it's getting better.

I just placed an order on a Yamaha YTS 475. It's an intermediate model with a pro-style neck. I figure it's good enough as a doubling instrument. Wish I could have afforded a 62II, but can't have everything.

[Razzy]

Whoa, I'd definitely say bleeding is NOT a part of growing into the instrument! Callous lips, maybe, sometimes. But bleeding, never. That implies biting or just way too much buzzing on the lips for one's own good. You don't want to destroy your possibilities of development in the formative years by cutting yourself up because of too much practice. This is like heavy weightlifters who start to break down after a while because they did not start out taking the time to do more reps, lighter weights, to build tendon strength to then support the larger muscle mass. You need to take it easy, let the firmness build up first. Most reed players, for example, can only go a half hour tops on the flute the first few weeks. That's just how it is, don't force it.

[JfW]

Whoa, I'd definitely say bleeding is NOT a part of growing into the instrument! Callous lips, maybe, sometimes. But bleeding, never. That implies biting or just way too much buzzing on the lips for one's own good. You don't want to destroy your possibilities of development in the formative years by cutting yourself up because of too much practice. This is like heavy weightlifters who start to break down after a while because they did not start out taking the time to do more reps, lighter weights, to build tendon strength to then support the larger muscle mass. You need to take it easy, let the firmness build up first. Most reed players, for example, can only go a half hour tops on the flute the first few weeks. That's just how it is, don't force it.

I guess it's a matter of how bad the bleeding is ;)

I had that problem a bit on my first year, I turned out fine. Perhaps she has too tight of ombrachure or is playing too much.

[Fluteaphone]

Razzy:
Although I had many problems at first, I never experienced bleeding, and I never mentioned it in my initial posting. Are you sure you're replying to the right posting?

[Twilight4588]

Im a flutist myself and I am switching over to tenor as well, I am pretty much teaching my self, I had an Intial start from my band teacher who showed me 4 notes and said the rest were like the flute. I just need to practice.

[Gordon (NZ)]

It seems that quite a few sax players start like that.

[Bootman]

Many go the other way too. It is very useful to be able to play clarinet, sax and flute if you wish to make a living playing music. It is also fun too.

[Fluteaphone]

Twilight,
Glad to hear there are others like me out there.

Playing flute certainly gives us a leg up on the sax, but I'm finding out there's a lot to learn still.

Like you I started the self-taught route. After a while I started taking lessons and quickly found out there are many subtle but important differences between sax & flute -- more than just the fingerings. My teacher also pointed out some errors in my technique that I wasn't even aware of (embouchure, vibrato, hand placement over the palm keys, proper thumb placement over the octave key, fingers flying too far off the keys, etc.). He is also giving me guidance in the right equipment for my playing style, such as reeds, mouthpieces, ligatures. I feel I'm progressing a lot faster with lessons than I ever could by teaching myself.

[Twilight4588]

Is there any tips you can give me? I am starting to play in my school Jazz band and if there are any hints you can give me they would surely help.