Will weighttraining impede or help my saxophone playing?

[Ronin1]

I have come back to playing the sax after a long layoff caused by serious illness. I am playing now after having recovered from brain cancer that almost killed me. Now, that I am able to, I am, in addition to playing the sax, also working out - lifting weights, running, etc. My goal is to get as strong and fit as I was before I came down with cancer.
However, a couple of my saxophone playing friends, who are grad students in a classical saxophone studio at a Big-10 university, tell me that intense weight training will impede my sax playing. They say that if I get strong stomach and lower back musculature, it will prevent me from using my diaphragm, and that if I develop the upper back and chest muscles, it will also have a negative effect.
Question is, should I believe them? I used to be a rather strong and fit person before I got cancer, and i'd like to get that way again, but will it prevent me from developing proper, good breath control?
thanks in advance. :? :)
-Ronin

[leonardA]

I play sax and clarinet and mostly working on beginning clarinet right now. I work out a little, but I did some extra yard work the other day and my forearms are so stiff that I can hardly move my fingers to finger the clarinet properly. I'm sure it'll go away in a day or so, but it tells me that if you overdo, it can make you stiff. I had no idea that the forearms and fingers were so connected. I talked to another clarinet player who works out regularly and says it's not a problem because his body is used to it.

LeonardA

[singlereed]

I think if you are fit and active you will play the sax a lot better than if you are a couch potato. Doing regular exercise will surely help your breathing and posture which will help with control and endurance in sax playing. It sounds from what you are saying that you just want to be fit and strong, not a muscle-bound body builder! I say go for it, playing sax is a physical thing and being fit is surely better than not. 8)

[Gordon (NZ)]

Ronin, are you saying that a weight trainer can get so muscle bound that he can barely breathe!?!?!?!

[Troy]

As usual, there is tons of bogus advice available. :)
Being healthy and extremely fit can only help your playing.
Just don't squeeze the sax too hard. It can bend!

[MojoBari]

Do weight training on your embouchure.... Long Tones.

[johnsax]

Ronin,

I can't imagine that weightlifting will impair your ability to breath adequately to play an instrument. In fact, as a physician, the idea seems quite ludicrous to me. But, consider this:

1) Weightlifting will make you more attractive to the opposite sex.

2) The added attention will be distracting and limit the time you'll devote to playing.

3) Your skills will rapidly decline.

So yes, weightlifting will be deleterious to your playing. However, being a cancer surviver, you should have no problem overcoming this too.

John

[Mike Ruhl]

They say that if I get strong stomach and lower back musculature, it will prevent me from using my diaphragm, and that if I develop the upper back and chest muscles, it will also have a negative effect.
Spoken like true pencil-neck classical-saxophone geeks. :lol:

It can only help, Ronin. Go for it - we're all rootin' for you! :D

[Lyle]

I weight train and play sax. I would say that Johnsax has spelled it out.

For myself, I find that exercise/weight training gives me more energy, and enthusiasm. I believe it also increases my lung capacity.

Keep pumping iron!!

However, Johnsax, the oppisote sex has not detered me from great sax. :lol:

[johnsax]

Lyle,

You must have great concentration and dedication.

John

[tonal ambition]

One of the top jazz trumpet players (I forget his name) was just
featured in the newspaper. Why? Because he runs 800 meters
in under 2 minutes and he's over 50 years old. For him it was all
about developing his wind.

[Ronin1]

Thanks a lot for all the good advice. I really appreciate your support.
I will continue to lift weights, just will have to not get into weightlifting too seriously like I used to before I got sick.
Saxophone playing is more important for me, and I have started taking classical sax lessons with a real good player, who i s a grad student in Prof Sinta's Studio at the Univ of Michigan.
Thanks again, friends. :) :)

[alsdiego]

Ronin,

This discussion reminds me of the old joke about running being bad for the joints. If you really get into running, you run right by the joints instead of stopping by to tip a few. This is good for you, but bad for the joints :D

As a lifetime runner and (very light) weight trainer, my experience has been that fitness greatly improves your ability to perform any physical activity, including sax playing. In fact, one great way to build strong diaphragm muscles (needed for a great tone and saxophone "wind") is to practice breathing from your diaphragm while working out. Makes running easier, and builds incredibly strong diaphragm muscles.

How do these incredible legends get started? Like anything else, probably it starts with the extreme. If you are so muscle bound you can hardly walk, perhaps that might limit your diaphragm movement, but in my opinion that's so unlikely as to not be a factor at all. In fact the great Larry Teal in his book openly advocates strength training of the facial muscles. I've tried it, and it really works, although you do get some strange looks when you're driving along sucking your finger doing "mouth" exercises.

Al

[Gordon (NZ)]

You don't mean "diaphragm".
You mean abdominals and intercostals.
The diaphragm plays no role in exhalation (as for "tone/wind" while playing an instrument).
It physically cannot.
Indeed, if it is tightened, then it OPPOSES breath support.
It is used for INhalation.

An "Incredibly strong" diaphragm muscle (there is only one of them) would enable one to breath in more quickly, defecate more explosively, and assist in supporting heavy children jumping on your stomach while you are lying on your back. Diaphragms do not need to be "incredibly" strong.

[alsdiego]

Gordon,

While I am not a doctor or physiologist, I respectfully disagree... saxophone playing requires that you take in large volumes of air QUICKLY... there are basically two ways to do this: (i) expand your chest, and/or (ii) expand your diaphragm. My only point is that diaphragm breathing is much more efficient than simple chest expansion. However, the diaphragm is like any other muscle, it gets stronger with use. A strong diaphragm is therefore essential to good saxophone technique.

Al

[Gordon (NZ)]

OK, I agree, only to the extent that to play one needs air, and the diaphragm is instrumental in taking large breaths. However tone does not come from quantity of air taken in, or speed of that inhalation. It comes from, among other factors, the way the breath is EXhaled, which is not dependent on a strong diaphragm.

Perhaps I was responding to an unintended ambiguity. Good inhalation is only a very small part of good "saxophone technique". The manner of exhalation of of much greater significance, but is still only a part of technique.

[bari_sax_diva]

I've got a musician buddy who's an amateur bodybuilder and a professional saxophonist. He's also a U of Michigan alum. The weight training doesn't seem to hold him back at all.

Check him out here:

http://www.2azz1.com/

And good luck!
-Leanne

[kidaxe]

Sonny Rollins use to train big time because he felt that playing the saxophone needs stong physical conditioning. Anywat Sonny is still alive so there's another plus.

Peace, Kidaxe

[Eeviac]

Running makes your lungs HUGE. I know that :-)

[DanPerezSax]

It's been a loooong time since I was serious about lifting, or even working out. Maybe I should change that... The only adverse effect I ever had was after doing pulling lifts that were near the peak of my capacity. 70% max deadlifts in particular, since I didn't use straps, were hard on the forearms. Nothing bad for me, they were just tired, and reacted strangely on the horn. I only noticed it the for a day or two, though, and I'm sure my forearms got stronger because of it. Better for carrying all that crap to the gig!

[martysax]

Maybe more people will buy me drinks if I start weight-lifting again?

[jacobeid]

I have come back to playing the sax after a long layoff caused by serious illness. I am playing now after having recovered from brain cancer that almost killed me. Now, that I am able to, I am, in addition to playing the sax, also working out - lifting weights, running, etc. My goal is to get as strong and fit as I was before I came down with cancer.
However, a couple of my saxophone playing friends, who are grad students in a classical saxophone studio at a Big-10 university, tell me that intense weight training will impede my sax playing. They say that if I get strong stomach and lower back musculature, it will prevent me from using my diaphragm, and that if I develop the upper back and chest muscles, it will also have a negative effect.
Question is, should I believe them? I used to be a rather strong and fit person before I got cancer, and i'd like to get that way again, but will it prevent me from developing proper, good breath control?
thanks in advance. :? :)
-Ronin

My teacher is one of the biggest, buff guys I've ever seen and he can play great. Ever seen Shawn "Thunder" Wallace?

Staying in shape is not only good for your sax playing, but good for your health. That's why I work out everyday.

Edit: I believe Eric Alexander runs marathons too...

[Ian]

Its been said already: the notion that excercise can impede breathing is utterly nonsensical. The suggestion that developing muscles, anywhere can impede sax playing is outrageous. Congratulations on your recovery, and strength to you, literally as you rebuild that battered body. you are going to enjoy being in shape again, thats for sure. The benefits of excercise are too many to list, but include even increased psychological wellbeing, increased motivation, increased.....I won't go on.
Must go now..have a 105 km bicycle race tomorrow!

[playitfunky]

Being fit helps playing any instrument. If however you are going for huge huge muscles I would say it could cause some problems. Being able to run though, and have good toned muscles will not hinder you though. I doubt you need to worry about being so huge you can't play sax anymore!!!!

[playitfunky]

I was told once by a teacher to never use the hand strengthening grip type devices because it will cause you to be less nimble with your fingers. Don't know if it's true or not just what I heard once.

[heath]

I used to lift weights about 2 to 3 hours every day. Now I lift 20 minutes a day working a different muscle group, which I find works better for strength gains.

My advice wear good gloves when your working the barbell to keep from messing your hands up when your pressing a lot of weight. As far as your saxophone playing is concerned, it will only help increasing your strength and stamina. My favorite for the sax is hitting the incline press, chin ups and medicine ball for the abs hard and heavy. Turn that diaphragm into steel also your chest and lats which all help to give you that little extra push.

Sonny Rollins was reported to have been a weight lifter and I know there are other horn players that have pressed the weights in their lifetime. Sonny's a great example of someone that turned his life around and focused on health and fitness and it's proven that this can add as much as 10 years to your life, but more importantly improving the quality. Watching Sonny in his prime, up to and into his 50's, was awe inspiring, he had to be in good shape to play that physical.

Weight lifting is usually the only way a person can avoid being "skinny fat". I do a lot of cardio everyday and you lose density over time from that. Women would be well served if they got off the treadmills and hit the weights. Nothing sexier or better for the bones than a women that goes all out with weights.