switch to B&S from JK?

[bkiser]

Ive been dormant for a few years now, and never was much of a tenor player. As am I starting to play a little bit again, I find that my JK tenor (early SX-90R with REAL rolled tone holes and the huge bell) just seems to be more work to play. It is not out of adjustment or anything, and plays perfectly, but requires more practicing time to achieve a satisfactory sound than I have right now. Ive never even seen a B&S in person, but just wondering how it compares. I am intentionally posting in this forum to avoid all the Keilwerth worshippers. Would a B&S provide similar quality (in feel and construction), yet with a more focused sound? Specifically, I am interested in a 2001 or Medusa tenor. Would appreciate input from those who have made comparisons.

Thanks,
Brian
Macon, GA

[SaxyAcoustician]

I've played both, still own a Medusa tenor. The JK and B&S are both very nice horns, and they're both very different. The B&S happened to have the sound and feel I was looking for out of all the horns out there.

I suggest you try one out and see. There simply is no other way to get a true impression. If you have doubts about the JK, then I think you're going to like the B&S.

[Morry]

Brian,

I tried a 2001 tenor at Whipkey's Music in Atlanta. Their prices aren't great, but they usually have B&S in stock, I think. I play Keilwerth's, but was looking at the B&S because I was having trouble assimilating to the JK keywork. I found the B&S ergonomics to be more like my Yamahas, but with a bigger sound. For me, the sound is not the big, thick JK sound that I like, but it did have similar qualities. It was maybe like you put an SX-90 and a YTS-875 in a blender.

Very nice horn. If you decide to go that way, you'll be happy with it, unless you just really want that big JK sound. They are certainly well engineered and constructed.

Check with Randall on the forum. He has extensive experience with both.

[noelpaz]

Don't know aboutthe new horns , but I had a Keilwerth (New King) and the a 70's B&S. The BS is definitely more focused ala Selmer but is plays as loud and resonatsa as JK's . Ergonomics is also ala Selmer - I haven't compare new JKs or B&S but I hear new B&S horns are killer.

[Randall]

I have, play and love both.
Noel's comments are right on target...although I wouldn't want to give the impression that the B&S is just like a Selmer...think somewhere between JK and Selmer with all the good qualities of both.

I personally see no similarities between B&S and Yamaha...but considering Yamaha emulated the VI, I can understand Morry's comparison.

If possible, both horns would be ideal....but if you had to choose one, I would probably go with the B&S.....but it is an extrodinarily hard choice to make!

[gary]

I think something's being overlooked in the conversation here:

Ive been dormant for a few years now, and never was much of a tenor player.
I don't want to make you feel defensive, but, as you said, you were not a good player in the past and you have had a layoff on top of that. I think before you look for alternatives to the already top-level professional sax that you have, you first need to learn to love the Woodshed.

[saxophrenic]

Gary,


Ouch!

:violent1: :boxing: :a-run: :cheese:

Brutal, but probably true. I agree with Randall about JK's and B&S's. They are both deep and vibrant, but DIFFERENT. I went from an early Conn 16M that was loud and blatty (a good marching band horn, I think) to the B & S. It was like the difference between driving a hot rod and a luxury sedan.

[bkiser]

Randall, Morry, and Noel- thanks for the input. I may have to go up to Whipkey's and check one out. Does the owner play a Buescher with a Rascher mpc? I think I attended a master class on the Glazunov concerto with him way back in the day.

No offense taken, gary- I apolgize for not having my practicing routine approved before asking a question. :D As much as I enjoy my visits to the woodshed, my two-year-old son, wife, and 60 hour/week job tend to be my priorities. Its not like my post said "I want to trade my JK for a B&S so I will sound like (fill in the blank)." Since I now play for my own enjoyment, as opposed for my dinner, I think its perfectly reasonable to request opinions from others when considering a major change. I see that you have almost 2000 posts, so I have no doubt that you get tired of reading the same old questions about setup which ignore the human element (hard work, hard work, and a little more work), but I can assure you that I have played long enough and at a high enough level to understand that part of the equation. Do you have a first-hand comparison between the two horns which would could share?

[gary]

Hey Brian! I've test-played a Keilwerth SX90R and the Shadow, both great horns. I played a B&S several years ago but it didn't really impress me much, but I was playing a Conn 10M at the time so maybe the B&S was just close enough to the 10M, without being a 10M, that it didn't stick very much in my mind.

I had a bit of a problem with the Conn (and Keilwerth) ergonomics, although I'm not sure they couldn't be overcome with work, but I sold my 10M and am now playing a Yamaha 82"Z" which is very easy to play and has terrific ergonomics. If you're not going to be woodshedding a lot and are looking for a horn that practically plays itself, you might want to check out the "Z" or the other custom model.

Some of the guys on this forum have recommended that I give a serious blow on a Medusa (see the post "Is my Yamaha too wimpy" on the Keilwerth thread) because of the combination of ergonomics and darker tone, a bit of a cross between the sound of my former 10M and the Yamaha ergonomics. They come highly recommended as I'm sure you've read on this category.

About my post, I didn't intend to offend you, just reacting to the information you yourself gave. I am a fairly lame driver, prone to running into lamp posts, trees and walls. Buying a BMW will not make me a better driver. I was just trying to save you some money in the short run.

[bkiser]

Thanks for the info, Gary. I have recently contacted John, but havent gotten to meet him yet. I hope to soon, however. In motorsports, there is a good quote: If you can't go fast with 80 horsepower, you can't go fast with 800. My caveat is that 800 can be oh-so-much more fun! Thats still the situation that I am in- trying to get my fingers to remember the scales and the licks, but just investigating whether or not another horn might make things a little more interesting. I would definitely like to play a Z. I enjoyed a borrowed 855 Custom when I was in college (working in a music store has its priviledges) and it was great for classical playing, but I havent played one since. A friend of mine here in Macon is interested in buying my tenor, so I better decide soon! The Medusa is tempting, as are the 2001s from Kessler's.

[Morry]

Brian,

You ever heard a guy who plays in Macon named Chris Anderson. He bought the first 875B Custom that I had. He plays mainly R&R/R&B/Blues stuff around the area.

If you get a chance, check him out. He gets a great sound.

[barelytone]

How about this - keep an eye out on Ebay for one of the older, blue label B&S horns that come up regularly. You would pay between $600 and $1200 (factoring in a repad), and learn all about B&S horns. I paid $399 for one that neaded minor tweaking. P.S. anyone have strong opinions on mouthpieces for B&S horns?

[noelpaz]

I have 2 Blue label (70's) B&S horns --- soprano and alto -- the alto is killer. I also bought a series II Selmer (now in the process of selling) and I have a good comparison point. The mouthpieces that workked well for the B&S are the Barone New York (Meyer type) HR mouthpices for bebop to R&B and the Selmer C* works well. I've tried a Berg 85 2 on it as well with good results but somehow the Barone get's the best out of it.

The soprano is good too but does not have a front F . It does have a vintage Conn Vibe to it's sound. I also use a vintage barone HR piece andan Otto Link 7* STM. The link is loud on this however there is more articulation using the barone. I have good luck with a short shanl Weltklang piece that came with it but have intonation problems

[newking70]

Buying a BMW will not make me a better driver.
It may not make me a better driver, but i'll sure look good driving it. :D

[barelytone]

anyuone play one of the B&S mouthpieces for the older horns? Either metal or hard rubber.