Aritsocratic Tendencies

[Bootman]

Got here again!
Long live the Aristocrat. :idea: :roll:

[Mike W]

Hi Bootman. I guess I need to test posting on he new forum as welll. Have you named your Buescher tenor yet. I don't recall. :D

[paulwl]

I was going to post an ad from the rollout of the Aristocrat alto/tenor in Sept. of 1934. But we can't post pix unless they're already on a web server. So maybe I should just stick all my old sax ads on a web archive!

Anywho, never let it be said that the old Crats can't fill a room with sound, or that they're strictly dark tones. My gig last night was in a church parish hall that was an absolute barn -- but with stone floor and columns, and a noisy crowd. But the tranny New Crat tenor, with only a breadbox size monitor speaker and mic preamp, rose admirably over the muddle of acoustics.

Of course back in the day, even that help was not to be had. A sax had to have oomph!--and it does. I almost like it better than the Conns in some ways, such as its more focused mid and low ranges. Any horn can be "live" if well amplified, but the Buescher had presence and shape.

[Jazzsums]

Okay, I don't have one of these yet. But what I remember as a kid in High School; a Buescher is a fine instrument.
I am presently playing a Couf Superba I, which I love: 20's-30's sound and projection, with a modern keywork!
What Buescher should I be aiming for as a cousin to this horn?
Sincerely,
Dave Summers 8)

[Bootman]

Paul,
If you send me the adds, I will happily host them on my site. You can link to them from there.

[JL]

Paul,
I had a similar experience the other night with my silverplate 'Crat tenor. I've only had the horn a couple of weeks; it's a later model with the big bell, 331xxx. Anyway, I was playing a blues gig in a cavernous bar with terrible acoustics and a tiny monitor with the mike turned pretty low. This horn just filled the room, moreso than my Mark VI which I have played under the same circumstances many times. A friend was there with his Conn 10 m so I traded horns with him for one tune (keeping my mpc). The Conn had a wonderful deep tone, but not nearly the projection of the Buescher. This horn's a keeper!

[Chris]

and what is with your straight sx90r.
Buescher or Keilwerth, what do you prefer to play?

[Bootman]

and what is with your straight sx90r.
Buescher or Keilwerth, what do you prefer to play?

The Buescher is still number one. The straight tenor is great but there is a novelty element to this horn. The most pliable and flexible of all the tenors I have owned is the Buescher silver plated Aristocrat.

[Jack W.]

One confirmed Aristocratic Buescher fanatic here in the frozen Northland. My 342k alto matched my 336k tenor perfectly (both in about 70% ugly spotty peeling original lacquer), until I recently sent the alto in to be stripped and silverplated. It is one of my favorite horns, even though my nickname is "Flute Boy". I get the shakes when I remember that I'm being separated from my baby and am likely still to be for another few weeks yet, even though I'm borrowing and using a nice example of a Mark VII alto in its stead. I've said before that you will have to pry this Aristocrat alto from my cold dead hands. The tenor plays exactly the same way as the alto too.

[DanO]

Amen Jack,
I feel the same way 'bout my 1963 Alto. It was made about 1-2 years into the Selmer take over. Still has the underslung octave key. The keywork is nickle silver and these later 400's dont have the silver ring around the bell. To me it's the best horn I have ever owned. It has the nortons and the snaps, has some minor leaks and such. I have to send it for a rebuild here very soon. Im going to hate parting with it.
DanO

[paulwl]

It has the nortons and the snaps

What do you bet they were still exhausting old parts stocks?

BTW DanO, I love the Morgan soprano mpc. Thanks for unloading it.

[DanO]

I knew after listening to those fine sound clips on your website Paul that Morgan would be the right MP for your style. Im happy it went to a good home..

[Jack W.]

I was playing my tenor in church today, I am no tenor guy but it was making me miss my alto. The update is that my alto is back from the silverplating job, it looks fantastic but is still in parts, awaiting reassembly by my tech. I miss my baby and am using my Cannonball "Silver Sonic style" alto (vide infra) in its place rather than the aforementioned Mark VII. By the way, my alto was built in 1951, my tenor in 1950.

[Paul Maass]

[quote="paulwl!

. My gig last night was in a church parish hall

Paul, and anyone else interested: I am a longtime ex-pro bassplayer, looking to play some sax (which I have fooled with for years, and occasionally blown a little when the bartender wanted the crowd to leave for the night) but now I am looking to play some sax in church, where they cannot leave so easily (HA). I play bass and guitar with a "praise team" at Kent-Fishkill Baptist in Putnam County now, and have been sitting in on rehearsals with the Patterson Presbysterians too (Bread of Life and the On-Fire Choir) at my wifes church. Probably start toting a C sax or an alto over there when I find my misplaced embouchure--
Interested to see you are a player, apparently a Christian musician ,and nearby too. I have acquired a number of saxes, too many, need to dispose of some per the Dragon Lady. I also have an offer to sit in and maybe join a local RnB/Rock/Blues band on Baritone ,got a Bundy Bari(Buescher 400 ) and an old Martin/Leblanc design bari, when I feel I am ready. So this is a "Hello" and hope to get to know you. Where do you play ? would like to hear you and learn ---
Regarding the Aristo s (the TOPIC !!) I have a beat "Elkhart by Buescher" big bell tenor, which is said to be a "Big B" without snaps, and yes it is LOUD, and soft and the most versatile sax I can imagine, also a Kohlert, great but unifaceted, a Dolnet, and a very beat very old Martin "the" to compare the Elkie to. My friend Andy plays an old Conn with that RnB bunch, and yes ,it is so DEEP it sounds like a bari, but he gets buried when away from the mike ---- Paul Maass (frogafone@hotmail.com)

[Bill08690]

Just finishing a repad on a '35 'Crat tenor [ser# 271K] and noticed that the LH1/RH1 Bb is a bit sutffy. The other two optional figerings are okay, however. After experimenting I have found LH1 & RH123 to be the best and equal in sound quality to the Bis or side Bb fingering. Has anyone else noticed this on their early Aristocrat tenor?

The sound of this almost eighty year old tenor is something to behold. Bootman was correct in his assessment of these early B'shers, lots of good character available from these horns. A professional player friend of mine was able to pop out super high altissimo notes with no trouble at all using an ordinary Link STM 6. I find the palm keys to play in tune with no difficulity at all, not to mention the rest of the range.

[Bootman]

Bill,
Check the linkage between the RH and the LH for the long fingering Bb. The swivelling arm area there can be a littleproblematic unless it is free and oiled up. I have not noticed any stuffiness on this fingering. I would also try a few different mpcs on the tenor and see waht you discover.

[MusicMedic]

One quick way to check that Bill is to play the Bis Bb. -remember that the 1and1 fingering is just using a different key to close that little bis key. With the bis key down switch to 1and1. See if the the bis key stays down. There should be very little difference in tone between these two fingerings.

[Hornlip]

Visitors to the old site may remember that I picked up a late 30's Aristocrat tenor a while back & posted the rather poetic care instructions the came with the original warranty card. I got the horn back last week from an overhaul, courtesy of Mark Aronson in Iowa.

Oh, my. It is absolutely scrumptous. After playing it a while, it makes me want to go find my girlfriend. . . . :wink:

A few weeks ago I managed to find a little brother for it on eBay, an alto I nabbed for just under $200, including shipping. The auction was headed just plain old "ALTO SAX" -- who could resist such an absurdly anonymous title? So I clicked on it & there was no photo, & it was the seller's first auction. Description was "Mid-40's Buescher alto sax good condition needs refinishing", or something close to that. I emailed him some questions & he answered them promptly and seemed upright, so I took a chance & bid. What I got: a mid-30's Aristocrat, all snaps, all Nortons, no dents, and 85% or so of its original lacquer. It even plays, though roughly & smells of the grave. There are still bargains to be found, folks!! Look sharp!! 8)

[Bill08690]

Hornlip- You lucky dog! lol.... I think I have seen a B'sher 400 TH&C in UGHLY tarnished condition go on Ebay for $150.00 Buy it now! Lasted only a few minutes! The pictures were not that detailed.....

Boot & Curt- When I play the Bis fingering and add RH1 the tone flattens a little, but stays the same if I use RH123. The difference is not all that great and probably would not be noticed except by comparison.

RESOs. I have made a few resos from the backs of the old pads and tried them on the lower stack and bell keys. It does make the instrument louder and sound a little more agressive but I ended up talking them out. I think the horn has more dynamic range without them. For example I could not play very quietly with the resos on the lower stack and contrary to what Paul C. stated I had more trouble starting a note with them installed. [Don't worry Paul...Maybe it's me?] The tone of the horn without them is a little tubby by comparison. I could see players going either way on this subject.

Finally, I find the olde horn to be very seductive and enjoy practicing my H. Klose everyday...

[MusicMedic]

Boot & Curt- When I play the Bis fingering and add RH1 the tone flattens a little, but stays the same if I use RH123.
Sounds just right Bill. I think Boot and I were just concerned that the 1and1 fingering was leaking.


For example I could not play very quietly with the resos on the lower stack Interesting Bill, I have not had this experience. Maybe when you put the reso's in small leaks formed? Interesting none the less.

[paulwl]

Bill08690: I find the olde horn to be very seductive and enjoy practicing my H. Klose everyday...
Hornlip ought to try this to tame those baser urges. The Buescher experience isn't complete without some degree of sober Protestant self-denial...:?

[Hornlip]

The Buescher experience isn't complete without some degree of sober Protestant self-denial...

Hmm. "Buescher". . .I suppose I should consult a Lutheran!!

[Bootman]

No, don't worry about it, just sit down do your Penance (practise).

I agree with you on the choice of resos, the standard resos have a more than flexible enough tone for my needs. Keep honking an denjoy your Buescher tenor, a nice vintage too. :P

[Jack W.]

I got another! (Hands out cigars)

I've been through all the altos, both expensive and inexpensive, and decided that the only backup to my 342k Model 140 (non-Big-B) alto that I will actually like, is another of the same make and model. So I just got in a 337k Buescher that is the twin of my silverplated alto, only in 90+% original lacquer. Initial results are that it plays just like my 342k horn (which it should, being made in the same year!), but I am having a few more pads changed before I give it a real workout.

I have been Bueschered and there is no turning back! Ironically, I am preferring a Martin Dick Stabile tenor to the Model 156 tenor I mentioned in a much earlier post, in fact I've long since sold the Buescher tenor. But I do not like Martin altos (although the few I've tried have been amazing horns), only Buescher altos, and only Buescher altos of this vintage. The 337k and 342k altos I now have are here to stay I think.

Of course I blame Bootman for all this. :D :D :D

[Pinnman]

Going back to the Buescher ads. mentioned a few days ago, I would regard a set of these as being an invaluable resource. Steve Goodson has some on his site, but they are not well catalogued.

If, therefore, paulwl and Bootman, you do go ahead at some time, may I make a plea that each ad. says more than just, "Buescher", (as per Saxgourmet) and indicates the model (e.g. "TT tenor") and the date of the ad. (as closely as possible, bearing in mind that some may be difficult to date).

It would be helpful, too, to let us all know when the project is complete and to give clear guidance on what may, or may not be, down-loaded.

I am sure you are both busy guys, but it would be great to see this. Does anyone have any thoughts of doing the same for other makes? In effect, there could be a "sax-ad-pics" site one day.

[Bootman]

Paul has a few adds from memory, I have one here somewhere. a I have just moved, it could take me a while to find it. I'll let you know how I go.

[OnyxSax]

I got to play Bill08690's '35 Aristocrat at the MD Get Together on 2/8...the first one I ever tried. I really, really enjoyed the horn. I can see why Bootman recommends them so highly. It's a different beast than my Conns. It felt to me like my Mark VI and Chu melded into one horn. The keywork seemed better than the Conns, although my Chu seem to be able to generate more power.

The Aristocrat impressed me enough that I've definitely moved it up on my "wish list" of which horns need to be added to my collection.