Can I learn both saxophone and flute at the same time?

[Stanley]

I would love to learn to play both the saxophone and the flute at the same time.

I actually love the sounds of the concert flute and the tenor saxophone. I heard that the fingerings in both tenor saxophone and alto saxophone are the same, and so, one should start out on an alto and then go to tenor. Why is this? Can I not directly go to tenor?

Also, since music has to be transposed to E-flat for alto and B-flat for tenor, how can I play the same music with same fingerings in both alto and tenor? For example, if a piano C is transposed to G# for alto, I have to use the finger for G# right? (to get a C note). But, the same C will be transposed to D in tenor sax. So, to get the C note, I need to use fingering for D! So, how do they say that it is easy to transfer from alto to tenor? I don't quite understand... Please help me...

Also, is the fingerings for the alto and tenor saxophones the same as on a concert flute? So that, if I see the C on my sheet, I will have to use the same fingers to press on both sax and flute? Kindly help me... I am totally confused...

Thanks in advance.

Waiting eagerly for your valued reply,
Stanley

[Gordon (NZ)]

"Can I learn both saxophone and flute at the same time? "

No problem. James Galway is arguably the highest profile flute player in the world. He also plays saxophone. If you dedicate much time to both, then you will get good at both.

Re the other issues involving scales, you seem to be unaware that the music has normally already been transposed for you, to suit the particular instrument you are playing.

Say the music is to SOUND in the key of C. Then the flute plays in the key of C. The tenor IMAGINES he plays in the key of D (with the manuscript in the key of D), and the alto IMAGINES he plays in the key of A (Not G# - an error you made) - with the manuscript in the key of A. Somebody has transposed the sax manuscripts for our convenience.

Fingering. If you ask a flute player, a tenor player, and an alto player to play a C scale (as opposed to a "CONCERT" C scale) Then they will all use similar fingerings for their C scale. However the flute player will SOUND the key of C, the tenor will SOUND the key of Bb, and the alto will SOUND in the key of Eb.

For the saxophone, the names given to the keys on the instrument, so that we can call them the same for all sizes of sax.

Flute fingering is similar to sax fingering, but actually, over the entire range, only 3 notes have IDENTICAL fingering - low C, low D, low Eb. All other notes have at least one finger different in standard fingerings.

[Stanley]

Thanks a lot Gordon for your reply...

But, I am very sorry that I am not able to really understand that...!

Can I put my question in simple words?

Suppose, we take the song "JINGLE BELLS - melody part" 's music sheet. We transpose it - one for E-flat alto, one for B-flat tenor, while keeping the music same for the concert flute.

Now, if a tenor sax player reads his music, he no doubt would produce the same tune as the alto and flute player. But, if he presses the first two fingers of his left hand for the first two notes of the music, will the alto sax player and the concert flute player also use the same two fingers (in the same order) for those two notes or will they have to press different fingers?

I understand that the first two notes, E and E will be G and G on alto sax and D and D on the tenor sax. But still they will have the same fingers to press?

[Gordon (NZ)]

I'm not sure what you mean by the first two fingers. That will not be an E on flute. (And do you call a thumb a 'finger'?) You need to be more specific with describing fingerings. Thumb and two fingers on flute would be A. The same two fingers (on any sax) would be called an A FINGERING, although they would not sound as A (on the piano or flute).

Anyway, if the flute player is in the key of C, his first 3 notes of Jingle Bells will be EEE. (And these will be EEE on the piano.)

For alto sax who is playing in unison with the flute, his music has been transposed to the key of A (or if it is not transposed, he will have to do this in his head as he goes). His first three notes on the music will be C#C#C#. He will use fingerings he CALLS C#, but the sound he makes will be E, same as flute and piano.

For tenor sax who is playing in unison with the others, his music has been transposed to the key of D. His first three notes on the music will be F#F#F#. He will use fingerings he CALLS F#, but the sound he makes will be E, same as flute and piano.

What is SIMILAR about the instruments is that when say all three players use thumb (on a thumb rest for the saxes) and first three left hand fingers, They will all CALL that fingering G, even though it sounds G for the flute player, Bb for the alto player, and F for the tenor player.

Perhaps you are confused by the system used for recorder playing, which is quite different.

Don't confuse "fingerings" with actual (concert) "pitch" with transposing instruments. "Fingering" refers to which keys are pressed down for a given black dot on the music. "Pitch", or "concert pitch" refers to the actual note sounded, i.e. its frequency of vibration.

[Stanley]

Thanks a lot....

I think I am beginning to understand it...

So, if there is a piece of sheet music, the alto player, the tenor player and the flautist (concert flute) will all use the same fingering. But, the tune that comes out of the three instruments will be completely different, right?

And, if the three people have to play the same music, the written music has to be transposed beforehand...

Am I getting it right?

[Stanley]

Do all the three players use what is called the BOEHM'S FINGERING?

[Gordon (NZ)]

"....So, if there is a piece of sheet music, the alto player, the tenor player and the flautist (concert flute) will all use the same fingering. But, the tune that comes out of the three instruments will be completely different, right?"

Yes, it will sound in three different keys.

"....And, if the three people have to play the same music, the written music has to be transposed beforehand..."

Yes.

Boehm developed an acoustic design and fingering system for flute, involving large tone holes that needed pads (rather than fingers) to cover them, and linkages between keys to facilitate fingerings. This revolutionised the flute, early in the 19th century, and the "Boehm" flute remains almost unchanged since then. The sax was invented about the same time, and incorporated Boehm's concepts for key layout and fingering (although there are slight differences), hence the similarity in fingerings.

[Stanley]

Thanks a lot Gordon.

I am very clear now....

You were really very helpful...

[Stanley]

I have one more doubt...

When a person plays both sax and the concert flute, when reading music, as you said, you can transpose it before playing...

But, how about when the person tries to play by ear.

Suppose when he hears the sound of C (Piano) in a tune, he will try to use the same fingering in both the sax and the flute, isn't it? Then, he will get C in flute and E-Flat or B-Flat on the sax, isn't it? Wouldn't that be odd?

[Gordon (NZ)]

Yes, that is more odd for some people than others, depending on their degree of "perfect Pitch". A person with perfect pitch is uncomfortable when he is USED to playing a C and hearing it as 256 hertz, but then fingers what he thinks is a C and gets a DIFFERENT pitch.

I service and play test many Bb clarinets. When I work on a much less common A clarinet, I am not aware that it is an A clarinet until I test it. My immediate reaction when I test it is that there is something weird about the instrument. Then I realise that it is just sounding a semitone lower than what I am used to.

The guy beside me in a choir is fine, and a good sight singer, until the choir is unaccompanied and goes flat during a song. Then he has to stop looking at the music because seeing notes that don't match what he is hearing puts him off so much. This does not affect me in the same way.

However, people who play transposing instruments soon get used to the changes in the fingering/manuscript -to-pitch correspondence. In some shows I may change between flute, alto, and clarinet 30 or more times in 2 hours, many of the changes being within a 5 seconds or less. No problem.

[Stanley]

Oh!

That could be one problem till I get used to it, isn't it?

Well, anyway, I will try getting both the instruments and try getting better in both...

Thanks a lot...